scherado Posted September 12, 2017 Author Report Posted September 12, 2017 (edited) Scherado - We were all stunned and shocked by the 9/11 tragedy, but it seems to hold some underlying anger fueled significance to you. If some day, some where, people are planning additional terrorists attacks against the US (and I'm sure they are) there is not much a regular citizen can do about it no matter the date. Worrying is like a rocking chair, it keeps you busy, but it doesn't get you anywhere. From what you wrote you seem very concerned and unhealthily enraged by the prospects of another attack. I'm not putting you down, but It may benefit you to seek counseling on the subject. Try looking at things from a fresh perspective. "Only in quiet waters things mirror themselves undistorted. Only in a quiet mind is adequate perception of the world." Hans Margolius. No, I have no festering emotions on the subject and I have no anxiety about what may be in planning stages. I do have great concern about widespread misunderstanding, ignorance, denial, to name three. The first part of your first sentence is wrong. There were people who celebrated in the USA, some in New Jersey. We all saw the celebrating "Palestinians" and the adults handing out candy to the children. There are people in the USA who admire what was achieved on 9/11. Some were and are disappointed in the result. The fact that should be acknowledged about Sept. 11, 2001: If both planes that struck the two towers at floore 50 or below, then 100,000 may have been killed because many more would have failed to evacuate and both towers would have collapsed sooner. The hijackers could have toppled both towers in the seconds after impact. This was the desired result. That would have resulted in 250,000 dead. It is ludicrous to evaluate an attack based upon the results. 3000 dead on September 11, 2001 was a damned lucky result. Edited September 12, 2017 by scherado OceanBreeze 1
Buffy Posted September 12, 2017 Report Posted September 12, 2017 I do have great concern about widespread misunderstanding, ignorance, denial, to name three. And that's a good thing. All of us agree with that I think. There were people who celebrated in the USA, some in New Jersey. We all saw the celebrating "Palestinians" and the adults handing out candy to the children. No, you did not. Neither did Trump, who said it quite a few times in just the last year. This has been endlessly debunked. If the only sites you look at support this theory, and there are many, I suggest you need to look elsewhere for information. Not even Chris Christie believes this lie. There are people in the USA who admire what was achieved on 9/11. Some were and are disappointed in the result. There undoubtedly are. There are people who think all sorts of things. Are you making a statement that there are a LARGE number? Or that those specific people are numerous enough in "certain groups" that allows you to make further generalizations? If not, then what exactly are you trying to say? Without such further specification, your statement is non-sequitur. The fact that should be acknowledged about Sept. 11, 2001: If both planes that struck the two towers at floore 50 or below, then 100,000 may have been killed because many more would have failed to evacuate and both towers would have collapsed sooner. The hijackers could have toppled both towers in the seconds after impact. This was the desired result. That would have resulted in 250,000 dead. It is ludicrous to evaluate an attack based upon the results. 3000 dead on September 11, 2001 was a damned luck result. All absolutely and horrifically true. You say you knew no one affected. I have two close friends whose family members died that day, and one of those two worked in the towers herself, and lucked out because she had a meeting in New Jersey that day: the last time I saw her before the towers fell was as she walked into them after we'd had lunch a few months before. I did not hear from her until several days later, and her brother in law did die. So if you think I'm being cavalier here, kindly pound sand. Now you keep dancing around what you want to say, and I won't put words in your mouth, but you obviously have some kind of strong feelings about certain people. You'd actually be better off simply shutting up about it, because there are many people--not just here--who will come down on you like a ton of bricks (excuse the appropriate metaphor) if you say what all of us are pretty sure you're trying to say. But as I say, I won't put words in your mouth. I'll let you confirm our unstated suspicions on your own. Islam, as practiced by the vast majority of people, is a peaceful religion, a religion that respects others. Ours is a country based upon tolerance and we welcome people of all faiths in America, :phones: Buffy
OceanBreeze Posted September 12, 2017 Report Posted September 12, 2017 .No, I have no festering emotions on the subject and I have no anxiety about what may be in planning stages. I do have great concern about widespread misunderstanding, ignorance, denial, to name three. Although I haven’t lived in NYC for years, it was my place of birth and I knew the South Manhattan area well. Around 2000, I had occasion to visit the South tower of the WTC, having some business with the New York waterfront commission. They were either on the 19th or 20th floor and all got out safely, as far as I know. At the time of 9/11, I was nowhere near so had no long term effect on me, but I do know some people who suffer from PTSD to this day. So, if the atrocity has left you with some lasting memories or other effect, I would not blame you in the least. The first part of your first sentence is wrong. There were people who celebrated in the USA, some in New Jersey. We all saw the celebrating "Palestinians" and the adults handing out candy to the children. I have heard (did not see) about people in the US cheering and I don’t doubt there is some truth to it, although the number is probably over exaggerated. I do know there was a lot of cheering in the Middle East, including our so-called friends in places like Saudi Arabia. I just chalk that up to ignorance and of course there is always a widespread resentment of US support for Israel, just smoldering behind a fragile façade of friendship. I visited the Middle East when I was in the Coast Guard and I never felt comfortable anywhere, including Israel. There was just an air of suspicion that I detected everywhere. I can’t really describe it. There are people in the USA who admire what was achieved on 9/11. Some were and are disappointed in the result. The fact that should be acknowledged about Sept. 11, 2001: If both planes that struck the two towers at floore 50 or below, then 100,000 may have been killed because many more would have failed to evacuate and both towers would have collapsed sooner. The hijackers could have toppled both towers in the seconds after impact. This was the desired result. That would have resulted in 250,000 dead. It is ludicrous to evaluate an attack based upon the results. 3000 dead on September 11, 2001 was a damned luck result. I do feel the same as you, that the jihadists will almost certainly try again (hell, they are always trying) and if they had a suitcase nuke they will use it. We just need to be vigilant and hope our security services are up to the task of keeping us safe. As for forgiveness, f*ck that! I don’t forgive mass murderers and I don’t forget but I also don’t allow it to consume me and I hold no bias against Muslims in general (at least none that I am consciously aware of, I cannot absolutely rule out any hidden bias because of the many terrorist attacks around the world). If I do have a hidden bias, I don’t let it get the best of me. If anyone here wants to come down on me "like a ton of bricks", Bring It On! Buffy 1
Maine farmer Posted September 12, 2017 Report Posted September 12, 2017 Although I haven’t lived in NYC for years, it was my place of birth and I knew the South Manhattan area well. Around 2000, I had occasion to visit the South tower of the WTC, having some business with the New York waterfront commission. They were either on the 19th or 20th floor and all got out safely, as far as I know. At the time of 9/11, I was nowhere near so had no long term effect on me, but I do know some people who suffer from PTSD to this day. So, if the atrocity has left you with some lasting memories or other effect, I would not blame you in the least. I have heard (did not see) about people in the US cheering and I don’t doubt there is some truth to it, although the number is probably over exaggerated. I do know there was a lot of cheering in the Middle East, including our so-called friends in places like Saudi Arabia. I just chalk that up to ignorance and of course there is always a widespread resentment of US support for Israel, just smoldering behind a fragile façade of friendship. I visited the Middle East when I was in the Coast Guard and I never felt comfortable anywhere, including Israel. There was just an air of suspicion that I detected everywhere. I can’t really describe it. I do feel the same as you, that the jihadists will almost certainly try again (hell, they are always trying) and if they had a suitcase nuke they will use it. We just need to be vigilant and hope our security services are up to the task of keeping us safe. As for forgiveness, f*ck that! I don’t forgive mass murderers and I don’t forget but I also don’t allow it to consume me and I hold no bias against Muslims in general (at least none that I am consciously aware of, I cannot absolutely rule out any hidden bias because of the many terrorist attacks around the world). If I do have a hidden bias, I don’t let it get the best of me. If anyone here wants to come down on me "like a ton of bricks", Bring It On!No ton of bricks, as you explicitly make a distinction which sherado has not made. Buffy 1
scherado Posted September 12, 2017 Author Report Posted September 12, 2017 Although I haven’t lived in NYC for years, it was my place of birth and I knew the South Manhattan area well. Around 2000, I had occasion to visit the South tower of the WTC, having some business with the New York waterfront commission. They were either on the 19th or 20th floor and all got out safely, as far as I know. At the time of 9/11, I was nowhere near so had no long term effect on me, but I do know some people who suffer from PTSD to this day. So, if the atrocity has left you with some lasting memories or other effect, I would not blame you in the least. I have heard (did not see) about people in the US cheering and I don’t doubt there is some truth to it, although the number is probably over exaggerated. I do know there was a lot of cheering in the Middle East, including our so-called friends in places like Saudi Arabia. I just chalk that up to ignorance and of course there is always a widespread resentment of US support for Israel, just smoldering behind a fragile façade of friendship. I visited the Middle East when I was in the Coast Guard and I never felt comfortable anywhere, including Israel. There was just an air of suspicion that I detected everywhere. I can’t really describe it. I do feel the same as you, that the jihadists will almost certainly try again (hell, they are always trying) and if they had a suitcase nuke they will use it. We just need to be vigilant and hope our security services are up to the task of keeping us safe. As for forgiveness, f*ck that! I don’t forgive mass murderers and I don’t forget but I also don’t allow it to consume me and I hold no bias against Muslims in general (at least none that I am consciously aware of, I cannot absolutely rule out any hidden bias because of the many terrorist attacks around the world). If I do have a hidden bias, I don’t let it get the best of me. If anyone here wants to come down on me "like a ton of bricks", Bring It On!. No ton of bricks, as you explicitly make a distinction which sherado has not made.. I didn't do something and I'm getting heat for not doing it? Someone tell me what I didn't do...please, so I can keep up to speed..
Maine farmer Posted September 12, 2017 Report Posted September 12, 2017 ..I didn't do something and I'm getting heat for not doing it? Someone tell me what I didn't do...please, so I can keep up to speed..What you have not done is make any distinction between Islamic jihadists and most of Islam. The absent distinction implies intolerance. exchemist and Buffy 2
Buffy Posted September 12, 2017 Report Posted September 12, 2017 I do feel the same as you, that the jihadists will almost certainly try again (hell, they are always trying) and if they had a suitcase nuke they will use it. We just need to be vigilant and hope our security services are up to the task of keeping us safe. As for forgiveness, f*ck that! I don’t forgive mass murderers and I don’t forget but I also don’t allow it to consume me and I hold no bias against Muslims in general (at least none that I am consciously aware of, I cannot absolutely rule out any hidden bias because of the many terrorist attacks around the world). If I do have a hidden bias, I don’t let it get the best of me. Amen! If anyone here wants to come down on me "like a ton of bricks", Bring It On! No need to. I wish scherado, who would play games here, would make the same distinction you do. Please do not misundertake me, :phones: :phones: Buffy :phones: :phones: This quote is *not* findable with Google, so special kudos if you can place it!
scherado Posted September 13, 2017 Author Report Posted September 13, 2017 What you have not done is make any distinction between Islamic jihadists and most of Islam. The absent distinction implies intolerance.. Who made that requirement? Are you applying for the list? I'll give it a name for convenience: New Kid On The Block (list). What is implied by what being absent and on what basis do you make this judgement? I'm giving you a second chance. You have been smoking crack if you think I must qualify my objections to brutal murder to anyone.
Buffy Posted September 13, 2017 Report Posted September 13, 2017 What you have not done is make any distinction between Islamic jihadists and most of Islam. The absent distinction implies intolerance. Who made that requirement? You have been smoking crack if you think I must qualify my objections to brutal murder to anyone. Well, that's kinda the question: Do you blame all Muslims for that act of murder? That last sentence kind of implies it, but it doesn't come right out and say it. Is that what you're saying? If so, what do you think ought to be done about it? Clarity of mind means clarity of passion, too; this is why a great and clear mind loves ardently and sees distinctly what it loves, :phones: Buffy exchemist 1
scherado Posted September 13, 2017 Author Report Posted September 13, 2017 ... . Scherado - We were all stunned and shocked by the 9/11 tragedy, but it seems .... ... The first part of your first sentence is wrong. There were people who celebrated in the USA, some in New Jersey. We all saw the celebrating "Palestinians" and the adults handing out candy to the children. .... ... No, you did not. Neither did Trump, who said it quite a few times in just the last year. .... No I did not what? Before you think you know the answer, remember that New Jersey's celebrants are far removed from those shown in the Middle East on that day. (I can't believe I had to type that sentence.)
scherado Posted September 13, 2017 Author Report Posted September 13, 2017 Well, that's kinda the question: Do you blame all Muslims for that act of murder? That last sentence kind of implies it, .... Which sentence?
Buffy Posted September 13, 2017 Report Posted September 13, 2017 No I did not what? Before you think you know the answer, remember that New Jersey's celebrants are far removed from those shown in the Middle East on that day. (I can't believe I had to type that sentence.) No you did not see people celebrating in New Jersey. It has been debunked. Read the link above. This is not liberal "fake news:" Republicans like Chris Christie (who would know) say it did not happen. To believe otherwise puts you in the same league as people who believe the earth is flat. Yes, darling. But the earth doesn't have any ends. Columbus fixed that, :phones: Buffy
Buffy Posted September 13, 2017 Report Posted September 13, 2017 Which sentence? This one: "You have been smoking crack if you think I must qualify my objections to brutal murder to anyone." You may have meant something different. Why don't you say what you think? I've come to learn there is a virtuous cycle to transparency and a very vicious cycle of obfuscation, :phones: Buffy
scherado Posted September 13, 2017 Author Report Posted September 13, 2017 (edited) No you did not see people celebrating in New Jersey. .... Who told you that I saw people celebrating in New Jersey? Do you understand the question? Edited September 13, 2017 by scherado
Buffy Posted September 13, 2017 Report Posted September 13, 2017 Who told you that I saw people celebrating in New Jersey? Your articles were indefinite about who did, but you clearly believe that someone saw them: There were people who celebrated in the USA, some in New Jersey. We all saw the celebrating "Palestinians" and the adults handing out candy to the children. If you're going to say you didn't see it, and therefore any statement you made posing that as fact is now inoperative, that's, well, disingenuous. But that's fine, if you're saying now that no people were celebrating in New Jersey at all, then we're on the same page. Great! :cheer: If you're defending a lie, you can only defend it with obfuscations and other lies. You can't defend a lie with the truth, :phones: Buffy
scherado Posted September 13, 2017 Author Report Posted September 13, 2017 ... You have been smoking crack if you think I must qualify my objections to brutal murder to anyone.. ... You may have meant something different. Why don't you say what you think? .... Different from what? Do you realize that you continue to reinforce my judgement I made of you with respect to your official capacity? You reminded me of another line from the detestable Roger Waters': "You don't have to be a Jew to disapprove of murder." Unbleeping believable!
scherado Posted September 13, 2017 Author Report Posted September 13, 2017 Your articles were indefinite about who did, but you clearly believe that someone saw them: .... Articles WHAT articles? I'm going to type very slowly in the remote chance that it will help. What I saw on that day on TV were reports about people celebrating in New Jersey. What I saw on subsequent days were online reports of people celebrating in New Jersey. If President Trump saw what I saw, then that's your problem, not mine. What I saw on that day on TV were video clips of "Palestinian" children being given candy by adults in celebration.
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