Terrorism, September 11, 2001, Violent Islamic Jihad

[scherado]

[This has been created on the suggestion of "Buffy"]

 

A few days after this year's passing of that date, 2017, and also the thread that I started on the day before the eleventh, I asked a man that I see sometimes weekly at a local meeting what he did this year on that day; there had been a ceremony in the small plot of land carved out in the center of the small town where I live. He told me that he was in NY City the day of September 11, 2001 and that he had worked in a police precinct involved in the recovery and "clean up" of the site of the collapsed towers. He also told me that he was there in 1993 and saw the tremendous crater created by the explosion beneath the tower. To be completely open, he told me that his precinct was responsible for the body parts found which had to be identified if possible. I won't reveal anything more about what he said in that regard.

 

This year, I mentioned in the locked thread that my Cousin's daughter had moved to a suburb of France that week to spend a semester or two of college abroad. When I had originally heard that she was planning to do that, I told the family that it was not safe for women in many European countries. She is there now.

 

Also, my Uncle's granddaughter has been working in London which has been on it's highest terrorist alert level.

 

My Sister's daughter has been talking for a year now about spending a semester of college in Europe.

 

I think they are all nuts, except for the one who has to go for her job.

[DrKrettin]

This year, I mentioned in the locked thread that my Cousin's daughter had moved to a suburb of France ....

 

Also, my Uncle's granddaughter has been working in London which has been on it's highest terrorist alert level.

 

My Sister's daughter has been talking for a year now about spending a semester of college in Europe.

 

I think they are all nuts, except for the one who has to go for her job.

 

What the hell is a suburb of France? Never mind - the danger from terrorists in Europe is negligible compared with the risk of dying in a road accident. And the only nut case here is the American who thinks that Europe is a dangerous place. We have strict gun laws here.

[Maine farmer]

Wherever you may feel secure, security is a state of mind that may or may not relate to reality.  Where I live, most of my neighbors have guns, and none of my neighbors scare me, but I have run into people who scare me weather or not they may or may not have guns.  

 

The risk we face from terrorism is minimal in comparison to the risk we face from our reactions to it.  I fear the potential loss of liberty and justice we might be choosing out of fear.

 

Liberty is inherently risky , with or without Islamic terror.

 

We should maintain situational awareness without resorting to paranoia wherever we are.

[scherado]

This forum program has a clicky thingy after the message identifying the hidden post and asks, "View it anyway?"

 

Sometimes I do click that, but there must be a good reason to warrant doing that. In this case, I have no reason do view the post.

 

This thread is about a subject that many, many nations, their politicians, citizens have to address on a daily basis. I have the luxury of not having to be personally involved in such work.

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It was on that day that I made it my "hobby" to follow and stay informed on the subject of terrorism and have observed the mayhem of jihadi murder, world-wide since 2001.

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(post)

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I still remain up-to-date about the myriad terrorist attacks in all the countries of Earth, with some focus on Europe, USA and Australia.

[Maine farmer]

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I still remain up-to-date about the myriad terrorist attacks in all the countries of Earth, with some focus on Europe, USA and Australia.

Are you including the mass shootings and the non- Islamic attacks?

 

We should have learned from the attack on 11 September 2001, that we continue, and we rebuild.  Sure, we suffer the anguish, and we grieve, but we clean up and move on. 

 

There is no amount of preparation and vigilance that will prevent every possible attack, so while it is prudent to be aware, I choose to not live my life in fear.

[scherado]

Wherever you may feel secure, security is a state of mind that may or may not relate to reality. Where I live, most of my neighbors have guns, and none of my neighbors scare me, but I have run into people who scare me weather or not they may or may not have guns.

 

The risk we face from terrorism is minimal in comparison to the risk we face from our reactions to it. I fear the potential loss of liberty and justice we might be choosing out of fear.

 

Liberty is inherently risky , with or without Islamic terror.

 

We should maintain situational awareness without resorting to paranoia wherever we are.

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Is "maintain situational awareness" a euphemism for letting others do the heavy lifting?

 

Do you understand the question?

 

The entire separate subject is what's going on outside America. I know there are a couple hundred millions of Americans who sit securely in their armchairs contemplating their situational awareness. Do you remember the two world wars America joined? Do you know what will be required of America when the continent of Europe descends into conflagration? If you don't know what's going on in Sweden, Belgium, Germany, France, Britain, Spain, Italy--off the top of my head--then you just might be situated too firmly in that armchair maintaining....awareness?

 

That's nice.

 

Four Americans were victims of an acid attack in France a few days ago. Do you know what a person looks like after getting splashed in the face with acid in a "successfull" attack? I doubt you do. Two of the four were sprayed in the face. This is something that Pakistani men do, but there have been more than 1500 such attacks in London since 2011.

 

Is this the part where I ask whether you like apples?

[exchemist]

What the hell is a suburb of France? Never mind - the danger from terrorists in Europe is negligible compared with the risk of dying in a road accident. And the only nut case here is the American who thinks that Europe is a dangerous place. We have strict gun laws here.

Yeah, "a suburb of France" says it all.  

 

Perhaps what we really need is a thread about how people acquire such distorted perceptions of relative risk. But I suppose that may be an old chestnut. What is certain is that someone who spends their time perusing websites like the Geller Report, which are devoted to stirring up irrational fear and hatred of muslims, is likely to end up with highly distorted perceptions of the risk of life in Europe. 

 

For what it is worth, when I moved to Houston, Texas, for a spell, some years ago, I initially lived somewhat in fear of getting shot in the street - a feeling that was not helped by our landlord, who offered to put up an 8ft security fence round the house we were renting. In the end we declined the offer and risked a verandah open to the street. I'm glad we did, and my fears gradually subsided.   

[Deepwater6]

As Farming Guy asked are you referring to only Islamic attacks?

 

How many, and to what degree must attacks occur before you deem the US just as un-safe as Europe for your relatives? When the US breaks this your imaginary threshold number of attacks and feel the US is not safe, where would you like them to go?

Edited September 20, 2017 by Deepwater6

[Maine farmer]

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Is "maintain situational awareness" a euphemism for letting others do the heavy lifting?

 

 

Could you please define "heavy lifting"?

 

As an amateur, I would surely be in the way of investigators.

 

Do you suppose I should endorse torture?  I know that if I were being tortured beyond my ability to endure, I would surely make up stories to end it, so how reliable would any information gleaned from torture be?

 

Should I enlist in the military?  I might be competent with a firearm, and in good physical condition, but I'm sure the military would judge me to be too old.  Besides, who would help keep the farm going in my place?

 

Or would you just have me go around chanting to "kill them all"?

 

 

The entire separate subject is what's going on outside America. I know there are a couple hundred millions of Americans who sit securely in their armchairs contemplating their situational awareness. Do you remember the two world wars America joined? Do you know what will be required of America when the continent of Europe descends into conflagration? If you don't know what's going on in Sweden, Belgium, Germany, France, Britain, Spain, Italy--off the top of my head--then you just might be situated too firmly in that armchair maintaining....awareness?

 

 

For one thing, I spend much more time in a tractor seat than an armchair, and my main danger there is debris flung up from the ground by the machinery I pull. ( Lucky I have good reflexes.)

 

I figure the Europeans are better at dealing with what happens in Europe than I am, although they kind of did start messing around with the Muslims in the Middle East long before America even existed.  Did we really need the Crusades?

 

I am not old enough to remember the two world wars, only what I was taught about them in school.  Those wars were against clear enemies with clear borders and infrastructure.  How does that compare to combating terrorism?  Should we invade Europe ?

 

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Is this the part where I ask whether you like apples?

There are several wild apple trees around the farm property that I enjoy sampling.  They are not certified, but they would qualify as "organic".  They are so "organic" that we don't even bother to prune them!"

Edited September 21, 2017 by Farming guy

[scherado]

As Farming Guy asked are you referring to only Islamic attacks?

...

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Was that directed to me?

 

If yes, then point to where he "asked,"

 

I think you're applying for a slot on the list.

[scherado]

Here is a good example from Germany:

 

The gay men turning to the far right in Germany, CNN

 

What remains to be discovered--not by me--is, example of what?

 

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Here is another example from Germany, where a judge acquits a guy of rape because his religion mitigated his intent:

 

Click the Übersetzen link

Edited September 21, 2017 by scherado

[exchemist]

The figures for hospital admissions in the whole of England (not just London) due to acid attacks, are about 300 since 2011, not 1500. Details here: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/30/acid-attack-hospital-admissions-have-almost-doubled-in-last-10-years

 

These seem to be mainly gangland attacks. These are admissions not people, so some are multiple admissions for the same person. It is clearly prejudice to attribute them all to muslims, as Scherado seems keen to do ("Pakistani men"). What seems more likely is that because corrosive substances are easy to get hold of, whereas guns are not, in the UK, gangs are increasingly resorting to them.

 

Scherado seems to have been lapping up a diet of hysterical anti-muslim hatred, exploiting his/her massive ignorance of other countries ("a suburb of France"). Does Scherado even have a passport, I wonder?

 

By the way I find it atrocious that someone like Pamela Geller devotes her life to whipping up fear and hatred towards a religious group, given what this practice led to in the c.20th. Someone of her ethnic and religious background should know better.     

[scherado]

Da Jews, da Jews!!

 

For the record--don't ask--I wrote off Britain about 4 years ago. "Wrote off" means they have gone over the cliff and are now in a free-fall into the abyss. To be specific, the amount of what is called "Sharia compliance" is what led to that judgement. Please note the number of years since that judgement; downward spiral.

 

The relevant question for Americans is, when will we be required to save the Continent again? This would be the third time, for those who are counting.

Edited September 21, 2017 by scherado

[sanctus]

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The entire separate subject is what's going on outside America. I know there are a couple hundred millions of Americans who sit securely in their armchairs contemplating their situational awareness. Do you remember the two world wars America joined? Do you know what will be required of America when the continent of Europe descends into conflagration? If you don't know what's going on in Sweden, Belgium, Germany, France, Britain, Spain, Italy--off the top of my head--then you just might be situated too firmly in that armchair maintaining....awareness?

 

That's nice.

 

 

Italy? They are taking all the refugees, no attack so far.

Germany? Took in more than a million refugees and there were what? 5 attacks? Assume each attack involved 5 extremists that would be 25 out 1000000...

Britain? You prefer to take a coffee now or in the IRA-era?

As for Europe in general, the number of deaths due to terrorism has gone up over the last 46 years https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/world/a-history-of-terrorism-in-europe/

(first plot), but all the other plots show you that in the 70's and 80's you should have been much more scared since the frequency was muuuuch higher. And the terrorist could have been your neighbour.

And check 3rd plot here, so much for being anti-islam:

http://www.datagraver.com/case/people-killed-by-terrorism-per-year-in-western-europe-1970-2015

 

And as to Europe being unsafe, look at any link you want about homicide rates per city and US has 3 or 4 in the top 50 while Europe has none...

[DrKrettin]

This article in the Daily Telegraph shows that terrorism has decreased in the UK since 1980. and that one is more likely to be killed by dogs or using a mobile phone when driving.

[scherado]

http://www.scienceforums.com/topic/30475-terrorism-september-11-2001-violent-islamic-jihad/?do=findComment&comment=351597

Italy? They are taking all the refugees, no attack so far.

Germany? Took in more than a million refugees and there were what? 5 ...

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Did you read post #11? I will quote from that post:

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Here is a good example from Germany:

 

The gay men turning to the far right in Germany, CNN

 

What remains to be discovered--not by me--is, example of what?

...

Here is another example from Germany, where a judge acquits a guy of rape because his religion mitigated his intent:

 

Click the Übersetzen link

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What are these examples of?

 

You've been smoking crack if you think that the only measure of this subject is "attacks." (Hey, that rhymes.)

[sanctus]

2 things: you only reply to one thing from all I posted. And shall I go to find you descriptions of which of the 30 murders last week only in Chigago?

Your links are just bullshit, in the sense that some muslim extremist hit 2 gay men and so they become far right. What about all the neo-nazis hitting gays? The second article is about ****ed up law-system and the guy is not even potrayed as an extremist.
Both articles are not in favor of your arguing for Europe being unsafe and implicitly the US being safe, they are also not arguing against. They just have nothing to do with it.

If something you need proper statistics, otherwise it holds no value.


You speak about feeling unsafe, so what measures you need for that? Attacks or potential of attacks.

Lack of liberty (like introducing sharia) does not mkae you feel unsafe (you know the rules and know what to do and not do), it makes you just not free.