Terrorism, September 11, 2001, Violent Islamic Jihad

[scherado]

.

I'm quite sure I'd prefer to stick a pencil into my ear,... both ears.

 

Thanks for the offer. When I read that you had attended Berkeley, and particularly at that time, it was all I needed to know...with respect to an explanation.

.

I do recall, though I'm having trouble finding, your post in which you comment about the pencils into my ears. When I read it, I thought, how ridiculous! if I stick them into my ears, then I will still see the repetive fatuity: I ought to stick them into my eyes!

 

.

All I meant by my references to Berkeley is that I know the difference those who participated in the events of the late mid-late 60s, early 70s and those who participate (and support) "Antifa".

 

Do you?

...

.

...

Well, which is it?

...

.

In my defense, I forgot the monumentally inappropriate name for the "stiff-arm", bust-heads operatives of the modern Democrat Party--not dissimilar to the well-known Brownshirts whom Hitler employed to such great result--except the mid-20th century infamous version showed their faces. I acknowledge my mistake and you may procede to give the authorities here ample reason to terminate your duties. I'm referring to your imminent defense of "Antifa."

 

My question about whether you know the difference, which I explain in sentence priot in the quote that I corrected, I ask again.

 

Do you [know the difference]? Let us acknowledge before you stick the wrong appendage into a post, that this violent arm of the Democrat Party embodies the very essence of the present-day UC Berkley campus, said campus the natural, "progressive" end-result of the malcontents who were barely pubescent in the late 60s having occupied or now occupy high positions in so many crucial institutions in Western societies. I site as exquisite evidence the 8 years of Clinton and the 8 years of the previous Administration.

 

I mentioned the book The Closing Of The American Mind, 1987, by Allan Bloom, in the Nietzsche thread; it is that book which gives an exquisite account of and explanation for the pathetic state of colleges in America. The chapter on the 60s is a must-read, though the entire book is a must-read.

Edited September 24, 2017 by scherado

[exchemist]

 

I think he was trying for "antifa" which is an abbreviation of "anti-fascists" that before last month was only used by White Supremacists and Neo-Nazis. 

 

 

 

 

 

Aha, I see. So he was trying to say "antifa", as a (get this) pejorative abbreviation for antifascist, but unfortunately something went FUNG! in his brain at the critical moment, triggering the default anti-muslim bigotry circuit, so what came out was a mixture of antifa and intifada, hence antifada.

 

Yes, I can see how that might have happened.  

[Buffy]

I'm referring to your imminent defense of "Antifa."

 

I always find it amusing that conservatives expect liberals to blindly defend everyone at their end of the spectrum because that's what conservatives always seem to do. Trump may think that the White Supremicists and Nazis are "very fine people," but no, most liberals do not defend or much like "antifa" who in fact are mostly libertarians like you. Unlike you they don't like Nazi's though. 

 

Let us acknowledge ... that this violent arm of the Democrat Party embodies the very essence of the present-day UC Berkley campus, said campus the natural, "progressive" end-result of the malcontents who were barely pubescent in the late 60s having occupied or now occupy high positions in so many crucial institutions in Western societies. I site as exquisite evidence the 8 years of Clinton and the 8 years of the previous Administration.

 

It's pretty hard not to just laugh at this. You've never been there, and you wouldn't know, but I'm sure you've been told that's what it is by Milo and Ben and Anne, and you credulously believe every word of it.

 

There's no need to respond to any "knowing the difference" when the only things you believe in are a fantastical misrepresentation of reality.

 

 

I mentioned the book The Closing Of The American Mind, 1987, by Allan Bloom, in the Nietzsche thread; it is that book which gives an exquisite account of and explanation for the pathetic state of colleges in America. The chapter on the 60s is a must-read, though the entire book is a must-read.

Oh my favorite description of Allan Bloom is "an academic version of Lieut. Col. Oliver L. North: vengeful, reactionary, antidemocratic..." but the truth is that The Closing of the American Mind was not as supportive of conservatism or an indictment of liberalism that it's supporters and detractors claim it to be. I highly recommend reading this 25-years later re-review of the book that's pretty objective and should get everyone who's still on their high horse about it back down to reality. Suffice it to say that your interpretation of what you think Bloom says about Nietzsche and Nietzsche in general is, um, "off." 

 

 

Godwin's Law doesn't apply to discussion of actual Nazis, :phones:

Buffy

[sanctus]

Buffy, have to correct you on that antifa has been around a long time (at least over here) and it used to mean just like you said anti-fascist, was at some demos in the end of the nineties. What really pissed me off is that last month it has been picked up by the US media and they equate antifa with the black bloc, potraying antifa as those believing only by destroying capitalism symbols a change comes (which is black bloc and is indeed a very stupid way because all support you might have had is lost at the moment you break the first window). So yeah, black bloc are antifa, but antifa is much broader.

And as I have italian as a mother tongue:
"capice" should be  "capisci?", because that is "you (2nd person singular) understand?", while "capisce?" is either the polite form or  he/she/ it understands? And I don't see the godfather using the polite form :-)

[scherado]

I always find it amusing that conservatives expect liberals to

...

.

I expected the self-identified graduate of Berkeley to defend Antifa.

.

Buffy, have to correct you on that antifa has been around a long time (at least over here) and it used to mean just like you said anti-fascist, was at some demos in the end of the nineties. What really pissed me off is that last month it has been picked up by the US media and they equate antifa with the black bloc, potraying antifa as those believing only by destroying capitalism symbols a change comes (which is black bloc and is indeed a very stupid way because all support you might have had is lost at the moment you break the first window). So yeah, black bloc are antifa, but antifa is much broader.

 

And as I have italian as a mother tongue:

"capice" should be  "capisci?", because that is "you (2nd person singular) understand?", while "capisce?" is either the polite form or  he/she/ it understands? And I don't see the godfather using the polite form :-)

.

 

How about Capeesh?

.

...

Oh my favorite description of Allan Bloom is "an academic version of Lieut. Col. Oliver L. North: vengeful, reactionary, antidemocratic..." but the truth is that The Closing of the American Mind was not as supportive of conservatism or an indictment of liberalism that it's supporters and detractors claim it to be. I highly recommend reading this 25-years later re-review of the book that's pretty objective and should get everyone who's still on their high horse about it back down to reality. Suffice it to say that your interpretation of what you think Bloom says about Nietzsche and Nietzsche in general is, um, "off."

...

.

Have you read the book? I recommend you think carefully before you answer. I await your answer.

Edited September 25, 2017 by scherado

[sanctus]

If antifa as in before last month I also defend them, if as the us media potrays them now and equates them to black bloc, no way I am gonna defend them.

What about sometimes admitting your opinion does not matter? Capisci in Italian is capisci and not what you would like it to be and not how you would like to spell it. Your opinion just does not matter here (and no1 else's for that matter). Invent a time travel machine and go to talk to Dante if you hate this spelling...

[Buffy]

Buffy, have to correct you on that antifa has been around a long time (at least over here) and it used to mean just like you said anti-fascist, was at some demos in the end of the nineties. What really pissed me off is that last month it has been picked up by the US media and they equate antifa with the black bloc, potraying antifa as those believing only by destroying capitalism symbols a change comes (which is black bloc and is indeed a very stupid way because all support you might have had is lost at the moment you break the first window). So yeah, black bloc are antifa, but antifa is much broader.

 

Yes, there's a big difference between the anti-fascists in Europe, which has a long history, and that in the US, which is relatively new. The history of violence *against* white supremacism is very thin, with the most famous incident being the "Death to the Klan" rally promoted by the Communist Workers Party that became known as the Greensboro Massacre. Notable of course was that it was the Klan that started shooting first, and while CWP members shot back, only Communists died that day, and of course the Klan members charged with murder were all acquitted.

 

"Antifa" is a new thing in the US though, and it's genesis here is really as a term used *by* the white supremacists to describe anyone who protests against them, violent or not, and that usage indeed was imported from its usage in Europe by the likes of Stormfront and other white supremacist publications. The Communists and Black Bloc groups however decided to take the name on as a point of pride over the last year or so, but there are no formal "Antifa" groups of any kind. The Black Bloc groups though are mostly relabeled Anarchists/Libertarians, who have been around in the US for decades, and again, that name really has its genesis in Europe. I'm very familiar with these people as a denizen of Berkeley/Oakland for a couple of decades, and have interacted with them directly at organizing meetings for the Occupy protests in Oakland, which were dominated by nice, moderate middle class people of all races, but the meetings and the protests were disrupted by the Black Bloc/Anarchist groups (they can't even agree amongst themselves most of the time, so there are many), which has basically set most liberal folks *against* them.

 

So to be clear, "Antifa" is ultimately a group that is loudly rejected by most everyone to the left of center, and to call them organized is laughable, as is any "both sides" argument that they're exactly the same as the white supremacists who are far more numerous, far more organized, and are called by our President mostly "very nice people." 

 

None of that holds true in Europe where anti-fascism is a broad movement arrayed against the fascist parties that are explicit and very active *political* parties in most every country, and there is an established will to stop them politically.

 

 

Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power, :phones: (yes, you should all look up who said that)

Buffy