How To Build A Time Machine

[TomKalbfus]

I keep an open mind about the topics you discuss, but as they say, not so open that my brains fall out. I remind you of the alleged topic of this thread, a time machine, which with our present understanding is an impossibility. Then you let your imagination run riot and postulate various situations which are impossible to prove which would make a time machine a possibility. For me, this is science fiction.

As an opening to a science fiction novel, this could be a valuable thing. What if for instance you wanted to write a hard science fiction novel involving apparent "time travel" say for instance the novel Island in the Sea of Time by SM Stirling.

 

You have a piece of our world somehow end up in the past with he ability to change it without consequence to the original timeline from which this piece of the modern world came. Everything else, you only allow what modern technology and science would allow after that "Event." If both times are simulations then there are no causality violations, the second simulation where the piece of our modern world ends up only begins running, once it is a part of it. It could be built upon information from a real past, but the denizens of the Island of Nantucket aren't real in this novel. With a sufficiently advanced computer a simulation could b made of any novel, but give the characters free will, then they are not constrained on how the novel ended. This novel is fairly hard science fiction once you get past that first bit of time travel at the beginning.

[Vmedvil]

Yes, I know, religion typically has to adapt of die, the religion of the Ancient Greeks didn't adapt, so it is a mostly dead religion, it has multiple gods in charge of different parts of nature, parts that are easily explained by science, so there is no need for a god of weather for instance or to make sacrifices to that god if you want it to rain on your crops or for it not to blow your house down. The 6,000 year old timeline is an extreme example, but if the "apparent Universe" we live in is only a computer simulation then that is also a possibility, it would among other things explain the Fermi paradox. The reason we don't see or detect alien civilizations is because the creator of the simulation we find ourselves in didn't want us to find them, do they were left out, maybe for our own good perhaps, that in any case seems like a more hopeful explanation, than their being a Great Cosmic Filter where each and every such civilization inevitably wipes itself out, leaving not a trace behind for other civilizations to find, since each civilization's existence is so brief because of this. The Fermi paradox is one of the things that makes me suspect that we may be living in such a simulation, and thus apparent "time travel" to other simulations resembling the past may be possible, more likely those simulations would have diverged from what we know as the past if they are currently running by the time we encounter them, this is all depending on whether the creator left any doorways open to the that we can use. Fantastic stuff for a science fiction novel I suppose. Not science of course, unless we can build such a simulation ourselves.

 

The Reason for the Great Cosmic Filter is the weapons that are developed as civilizations advance, first it was Biological weapons, Then Chemical Weapons, then Nuclear Fusion/fission weapons, then Synthetic Organic Biological (Currently), then Synthetic Inorganic Biological weapons, then Anti-matter, then Black-hole weapons, then who knows maybe like Galaxy destroying weapons, then Universe destroying ones. weapons of mass destruction is what cause this extinction of species any corrupt ruler without any morality would use them. You would have to have some rulers and citizens of very high morality to keep your civilization alive forever. Around every corner is destructive and constructive uses for technology. survival is rewarded to the wise not the foolish.

Edited September 29, 2017 by Vmedvil

[TomKalbfus]

I do not think even that computer could handle the amount of data that it would be faced with. Yesterday, I was going to calculate the amount of processing power you would need to simulate the entire universe down to the plank level but then I found a much simpler way of explaining this, As long as your device exists within the universe it cannot process the entire universe. That computer would probably range in the Yottaflops, what if I told you that could not even process a single meter cubed for one second of space exactly being on to the detail of 10^-35 Meters and 10^-44 seconds Yotta only being 10^24, your design would have to be much more massive. You would need a Yotta-Yotta-Yotta flop to calculate just one meter of space for one second to exact precision with all of its fine details. The Universe is not that simple, which at those sizes this the level that strings exist and in the time frame strings split into parallel universes, which would require you add another Giga to that Yotta-Yotta-Yotta flop to calculate all possible outcomes or all possible movements on the Planck Scale. you are already at 10^81 flops, just with one meter for one second between the speed of light and zero in all directions, I think you need to keep thinking about this. The size of the Universe is around 10^26 meters cubed, so to process the entire universe and all possible outcomes would require around a Giga-Yotta-Yotta-Yotta-Yotta-Yotta-Yotta Flop and that is only for one second, which is in the area of 10^153th flops. Then you would need to calculate an equation to calculate expansion from Dark energy of the universe, which would continuously add more points to calculate, which would be Ultra Easy for this Hyper Godlike Intelligence Computer which may laugh at how simple this is compared to that.

 

 

 

You may say those are floating point calculations, well all the numbers would be used to predict the forces at the string level until the computer still probably stack overflows. Below is the equation for expansion rate due to dark energy in the form of the Hubble constant start with that being the easiest for us Non-Computer Gods. I do think that you would be unable to even understand the output screen being in some sort of 26 Dimensional Matrix code like in the movie the matrix as they cannot even understand the code of the matrix, which would be much less complex than this only being 3-D matrix code.

 

Your probably right, but a simulation only simulates that which is important, probably it is much easier to simulate the important details of a human mind so that it can think, you can keep all these physical laws and constants in the background until this mind looks for them. Since you are simulating his mind, you know what he is thinking about, and the purpose of the simulation is to make that artificial mind believe it is living in a real universe instead of a simulated one, so you add as much sufficient detail as you need, borrowing from the real universe for guidance whenever that artificial mind does an experiment to find out about the pretend universe he is living in. If he is using a particle accelerator within the simulation, then you give him the results that he would find if you ran that experiment in the real universe, if he looks through a telescope, then you give him something that he can see I order to make him believe that the universe he is in is actually billions of years old, you edit out all evidence of extra-terrestrial civilizations however, you would want your simulation to be simple after all, you are simulating just one world, and that in itself takes a lot of computing resources. The purpose of the simulation could be an experiment to see how humans develop in the absence of interference from extraterrestrial civilizations, thus we don't find them when we look in the sky. We only go into the detail we need when we simulate this world, and since we are simulating all the human minds within it, we know to what degree of detail that is and we approximate everything else.

Edited September 29, 2017 by TomKalbfus

[TomKalbfus]

The Reason for the Cosmic Filter is the weapons that are developed as civilizations advance, first it was Biological weapons, Then Chemical Weapons, then Nuclear Fusion/fission weapons, then Synthetic Organic Biological (Currently), then Synthetic Inorganic Biological weapons, then Anti-matter, then Black-hole weapons, then who knows maybe like Galaxy destroying weapons, then Universe destroying ones. weapons of mass destruction is what cause this any corrupt ruler without any morality would use them. You would have to have some rulers and citizens of very high morality to keep your civilization alive forever. Around every corner is destructive and constructive uses for technology.

You can be a pessimist or an optimist, if you are a pessimist, you can believe in this Great Cosmic Filter, if you are an optimist, you can come up with another explanation such as we've living within a computer simulation or that we are among the first technological civilizations in the Universe. I think the explanation that we are living in a computer simulation is more likely than the second. After all, we haven't blown ourselves up yet! The chance of our being the first in the Universe is very small. I think once we spread to other star systems, the chance of the Great Cosmic filter being ruthlessly efficient and getting us all diminishes, we have to find a way to survive however. It maybe that we may need to create our own "God" to govern us, to control all the technologies that might destroy us if they fell into our own hands as individuals. Such a "God" may already exist if we are living in a simulation, someone created it after all, they don't just happen.

[Vmedvil]

You can be a pessimist or an optimist, if you are a pessimist, you can believe in this Great Cosmic Filter, if you are an optimist, you can come up with another explanation such as we've living within a computer simulation or that we are among the first technological civilizations in the Universe. I think the explanation that we are living in a computer simulation is more likely than the second. After all, we haven't blown ourselves up yet! The chance of our being the first in the Universe is very small. I think once we spread to other star systems, the chance of the Great Cosmic filter being ruthlessly efficient and getting us all diminishes, we have to find a way to survive however. It maybe that we may need to create our own "God" to govern us, to control all the technologies that might destroy us if they fell into our own hands as individuals. Such a "God" may already exist if we are living in a simulation, someone created it after all, they don't just happen.

 

Well, in revelations it does say that we are all "666" or dead for following the Antichrist and that we go through an apocalypse which hasn't happened yet if you believe that, I tend to be a optimist and believe that we don't Bio-Apocalypse ourselves like in Revelations 16 and sadly, it is God who does it in the Bowls of Wrath from the description that is what I believe it is Nano-technological weapons that are used in revelations with sores and such. So, we should all believe in God and commit planetary suicide. F that, I don't believe that the future is written like the bible says........ Really Ecophagy and you are the Creator of the Universe? 

 

No, Light...... You are not God even if you destroy the planet or dupe others into doing it for you.

 

 

In any case, those are my thoughts on "God". Some very different thoughts than others such as Monster or Liar, people such as yourself should not even be allowed to bask in the light of the sun if what that book says is true, Light....."God".

Edited September 29, 2017 by Vmedvil

[Maine farmer]

Well, in revelations it does say that we are all "666" or dead for following the Antichrist and that we go through an apocalypse which hasn't happened yet if you believe that, I tend to be a optimist and believe that we don't Bio-Apocalypse ourselves like in Revelations 16 and sadly, it is God who does it in the Bowls of Wrath from the description that is what I believe it is Nano-technological weapons that are used in revelations with sores and such. So, we should all believe in God and commit planetary suicide. F that, I don't believe that the future is written like the bible says........ Really Ecophagy and you are the Creator of the Universe? 

What scares me are the people who believe in revelations, AND want it to happen.  Some people seem to want it so they can feel vindicated, and they can watch the sinful non-believers get punished.  I saw on TV someone refer to Revelations as a road map to the Apocalypse, and that made me wonder why would someone choose to follow such a road map!

 

(could they have meant a road map FOR instead of TO?)

Edited September 29, 2017 by Farming guy

[exchemist]

That all depends upon with which Christians you are speaking.  I know one who firmly holds that belief.  Then again, he is against children reading about witchcraft for fear that if they try the spells, there are demons who will make the spells work, thus leading the children away from Christ.  All in all, he seems otherwise normal, so long as you don't bring up religion or science.  

The one you refer to will belong to one of these sects, I expect.

 

There are quite a lot of them in the USA. Far fewer in Europe, because historically we have tended to get rid of the awkward fundamentalists....to America!  

[exchemist]

Yes, I know, religion typically has to adapt of die, the religion of the Ancient Greeks didn't adapt, so it is a mostly dead religion, it has multiple gods in charge of different parts of nature, parts that are easily explained by science, so there is no need for a god of weather for instance or to make sacrifices to that god if you want it to rain on your crops or for it not to blow your house down. The 6,000 year old timeline is an extreme example, but if the "apparent Universe" we live in is only a computer simulation then that is also a possibility, it would among other things explain the Fermi paradox. The reason we don't see or detect alien civilizations is because the creator of the simulation we find ourselves in didn't want us to find them, do they were left out, maybe for our own good perhaps, that in any case seems like a more hopeful explanation, than their being a Great Cosmic Filter where each and every such civilization inevitably wipes itself out, leaving not a trace behind for other civilizations to find, since each civilization's existence is so brief because of this. The Fermi paradox is one of the things that makes me suspect that we may be living in such a simulation, and thus apparent "time travel" to other simulations resembling the past may be possible, more likely those simulations would have diverged from what we know as the past if they are currently running by the time we encounter them, this is all depending on whether the creator left any doorways open to the that we can use. Fantastic stuff for a science fiction novel I suppose. Not science of course, unless we can build such a simulation ourselves.

 

Yes, I know, religion typically has to adapt of die, the religion of the Ancient Greeks didn't adapt, so it is a mostly dead religion, it has multiple gods in charge of different parts of nature, parts that are easily explained by science, so there is no need for a god of weather for instance or to make sacrifices to that god if you want it to rain on your crops or for it not to blow your house down. The 6,000 year old timeline is an extreme example, but if the "apparent Universe" we live in is only a computer simulation then that is also a possibility, it would among other things explain the Fermi paradox. The reason we don't see or detect alien civilizations is because the creator of the simulation we find ourselves in didn't want us to find them, do they were left out, maybe for our own good perhaps, that in any case seems like a more hopeful explanation, than their being a Great Cosmic Filter where each and every such civilization inevitably wipes itself out, leaving not a trace behind for other civilizations to find, since each civilization's existence is so brief because of this. The Fermi paradox is one of the things that makes me suspect that we may be living in such a simulation, and thus apparent "time travel" to other simulations resembling the past may be possible, more likely those simulations would have diverged from what we know as the past if they are currently running by the time we encounter them, this is all depending on whether the creator left any doorways open to the that we can use. Fantastic stuff for a science fiction novel I suppose. Not science of course, unless we can build such a simulation ourselves.

Yes, religion, like science, or any other human system of thought, evolves. 

[exchemist]

What scares me are the people who believe in revelations, AND want it to happen.  Some people seem to want it so they can feel vindicated, and they can watch the sinful non-believers get punished.  I saw on TV someone refer to Revelations as a road map to the Apocalypse, and that made me wonder why would someone choose to follow such a road map!

 

(could they have meant a road map FOR instead of TO?)

You mean, a sense of schadenfreude, like me as I watch the Brexit enthusiasts in Britain gradually realise it is a hideous error which will damage the country? :)

[Vmedvil]

You mean, a sense of schadenfreude, like me as I watch the Brexit enthusiasts in Britain gradually realise it is a hideous error which will damage the country? :)

 

Yeah, I don't understand how people could think an Apocalypse is ever something to be wished for, you don't realize what you have until you have Synthetic Viral weapons straight out of Star Trek killing everything on the planet. Didn't you see that episode of star trek and how horrible it is, but with Brexit I always thought that was retarded but they still did it, I was kinda mad when it happened as all the American Stocks and European stocks tanked, I was like what a douche move, but I kinda laughed they went from being apart of something with the resources of a Superpower to the resources of North Korea, how did you think that was a good idea for a small island to go alone?   I believe strongly in this following quote. 

Edited September 29, 2017 by Vmedvil

[DrKrettin]

Well, in revelations it does say that we are all "666" 

 

I hope you appreciate my avatar. (And it's Revelation,  by the way, Revelation 13.18)

[Vmedvil]

I hope you appreciate my avatar. (And it's Revelation,  by the way, Revelation 13.18)

 

Ya, that says 666 in Greek and in Arabic Allah  your avatar i can't believe I missed that until now, odd avatar. So, you either going to hell or a terrorist.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Vmedvil

[TomKalbfus]

Well, in revelations it does say that we are all "666" or dead for following the Antichrist and that we go through an apocalypse which hasn't happened yet if you believe that, I tend to be a optimist and believe that we don't Bio-Apocalypse ourselves like in Revelations 16 and sadly, it is God who does it in the Bowls of Wrath from the description that is what I believe it is Nano-technological weapons that are used in revelations with sores and such. So, we should all believe in God and commit planetary suicide. F that, I don't believe that the future is written like the bible says........ Really Ecophagy and you are the Creator of the Universe? 

 

No, Light...... You are not God even if you destroy the planet or dupe others into doing it for you.

 

 

In any case, those are my thoughts on "God". Some very different thoughts than others such as Monster or Liar, people such as yourself should not even be allowed to bask in the light of the sun if what that book says is true, Light....."God".

Here's what I imagine its like to be God in the Book of Revelations. I am running a puppet show, I am a very versatile and talented puppet master, and I put on these shows to entertain myself. So I have a bunch of puppets, all of my puppets are flawed, but I forgive these puppets for having these flaws, so I assign each puppet a role to play, some of these puppets are good, and some are bad, and I decide which, and then the bad puppets worship Satan, and I follow the script and punish those bad puppets for being so bad, by throwing them on the fire, in fact I destroy most of my puppets and except for a few I call righteous, I put those good ones on a soft pillow for playin the part of a hero and keeping their faith in me, like I told them to do, not that they had any choice, and the evil ones I burned because I decided from the very beginning that they would be evil, so I could later say, "I told you so, it was a prophesy! Says it right here in the script!"

 

Now if I'm God, and I prophesy that you are going to turn evil and worship Satan, then you are going to turn evil and worship Satan, because I am always right, and then I will punish you for turning evil and worshipping Satan! I think the book of Revelations lacks and element of free will in its story, it basically predicts a bunch of evils that are going to happen and which we cant stop, and then Jesus comes down from on high to save us after he feels we have suffered enough for being the "bad puppets of God" that we are, and then he is going to forgive us our sins that he made us have.

[DrKrettin]

Ya, that says 666 in Greek and in Arabic Allah  your avatar i can't believe I missed that until now, odd avatar. So, you either going to hell or a terrorist.

 

 

That attempt to equate the 666 with Allah is a ridiculous distortion and would make no grammatical sense anyway. The deduction ex pedem Herculem is also odd, because there may be various reasons for choice of avatar. It could be that I am trying to come to terms with a bad case of hexakosioihexekontahexaphobia. 

[DrKrettin]

 Book of Revelations. 

 

Revelation

[exchemist]

Ya, that says 666 in Greek and in Arabic Allah  your avatar i can't believe I missed that until now, odd avatar. So, you either going to hell or a terrorist.

I realise you are just having a laugh, but, purely in the interests of correctness for other readers, I give the link that shows how the Arabic incipit Bismil-lah is actually written (of course nothing remotely like your picture): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basmala

[Maine farmer]

I realise you are just having a laugh, but,

 

You have to beware of those who can't recognize humor and those who might think you are serious.  I have said things jokingly many times and had people think I was serious.