New look at dimensions:

[infamous]

Check out this attachment, I'm sure it will cause quite a ruckus.

[Queso]

he got right to the point. good for him. none of that excessive mumbo jumbo.

[infamous]

he got right to the point. good for him. none of that excessive mumbo jumbo.

Thank you orby for that compliment, I will continue with the same pointed approach. Following is another attachment that I would like to add to the mix.

[Turtle]

___This machine says it can't load the documents. ;)

[infamous]

___This machine says it can't load the documents. ;)

I wish I could help Turtle but I'm not much of a computer freak, just started learning about a year ago. My machine is a Windows XP if that helps, also, the documents are Microsoft word documents if that helps any.

[C1ay]

___This machine says it can't load the documents. ;)

Do these work for you?

[Turtle]

___Thanks C1ay; that works. I can't follow the math argument, but the text is interesting. Rather than say "dimensions", maybe "degrees of freedom" is a better phrase. Now it is easier to see how many more "dimensions" one may obtain. Besides the eight degrees of freedom, let's add color too; now how many dimensions do we have? It is all an interesting view, but it doesn't put dinner on the table or unclog the privy.

[infamous]

___Thanks C1ay; that works. I can't follow the math argument, but the text is interesting. .

When you understand where the value (6/pi) comes from, it may help to explain the mathematical argument. If your interested Turtle, the ratio of (dia^3/volume, of a sphere) is equal to (6/pi). This is a constant that has the universal function to generate the dimensionless quality needed to balance the equations in my previous post. Along with the cube root of ten and the constant speed of light, c, you will notice that I can calculate the values for several constants of nature. I believe this demonstrates the geometric nature for the fabric of space/time.

[UncleAl]

NEVER post an MS Word document. Most of it is wasted space and malware. Post an HTML document on your Web page and provide a link. There is lots of stuff in your 11 KB of document

 

Author: B-P Machine

Company: Sprint-Internal Use Only

2 revisions, 50 minutes editing time

Etc.

 

beyond the paltry 1 kb of text. If you do not have a Web page, post an ASCII text file.

 

Zero content. The author is ignorant of both mathematics and physics at the most basic of levels.

 

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/symmetries.html

http://motls.blogspot.com/2005/07/background-independence.html

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/week39.html

 

Hey git - why does theory describing alternating current use imaginary numbers?

[infamous]

 

Zero content. The author is ignorant of both mathematics and physics at the most basic of levels.

 

Your point is noted and I will concede that my terminology is misleading. Instead of refering to these 6 directions of dimensions as such, it would be more correct to describe them as degrees of freedom.Taking into account that the dimension of time must also be included in this description, could we reckon that we have 6 degrees of freedom relative to our direction in time and 6 other degrees of freedom relative to the time reversed direction? This would amount to a total of 12 degrees of freedom for the space/time fabric. I believe Buckminster Fuller also views the space/time fabric with 12 degrees of freedom if I'm not mistaken. I would like your comments on this point of view Uncle, I trust your judgement about these questions. I'm still learning and I would appreciate your constructive criticism.

[Guest loarevalo]

So what if we shift our viewpoint from 4 dimensions to 8? Sorry if I'm short sighted, but what does this realization contributes? in what ways does this discovery shed light on our current system?

 

Why do you count time twice. As far as we know, we can't go backwards in time, so shouldn't time count once, so there would be 7 dimensions instead of 8?

 

What do you think about the eastern religions, which believe that when you get out of the cycle of death, pleasure, pain "samsara" and attain "enlightnment" one realizes that existence is all connected, or all a perfect union. So in this rapture, one losses itself becoming all in all, knowing and becoming the immovable point at the center, and the center is everywhere and everything. In this realm of the undifferentiated eternity, there is no change, no "pairs of opposites" - therefore no dimensions, that is, zero dimension.

 

Infamous, you may already know, but if not, I tell you to visit this site, I'm sure you'll be interested. Look over the section where he derives measurements without dimensionals (time is defined as the ratio of "cycles"):

http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp/

[Guest loarevalo]

That link is the website. Here is the specific page I mentioned dealt with "cycles":

http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp/number.html

[infamous]

Your point is noted and I will concede that my terminology is misleading. Instead of refering to these 6 directions of dimensions as such, it would be more correct to describe them as degrees of freedom.Taking into account that the dimension of time must also be included in this description, could we reckon that we have 6 degrees of freedom relative to our direction in time and 6 other degrees of freedom relative to the time reversed direction? This would amount to a total of 12 degrees of freedom for the space/time fabric. I believe Buckminster Fuller also views the space/time fabric with 12 degrees of freedom if I'm not mistaken. I would like your comments on this point of view Uncle, I trust your judgement about these questions. I'm still learning and I would appreciate your constructive criticism.

Here is the comment that Buckminster Fuller makes about the 12 degrees of freedom:

 

"It is experientially suggested that the structural interpatterning principles apparently governing all atomic associability behaviors are characterized by triangular and tetrahedial accommodations, where in the tetrahedron's six positive and six negative vectorial edge forces match a total of 12 universal degrees of freedom."

[infamous]

So what if we shift our viewpoint from 4 dimensions to 8? Sorry if I'm short sighted, but what does this realization contributes? in what ways does this discovery shed light on our current system?

 

Why do you count time twice. As far as we know, we can't go backwards in time, so shouldn't time count once, so there would be 7 dimensions instead of 8?

I have redefined this understanding about dimensions to be more properly refered to as 12 degrees of freedom. I believe, as UncleAl has pointed out, that I was mistaken to define these as 8 different dimensions.

 

What do you think about the eastern religions, which believe that when you get out of the cycle of death, pleasure, pain "samsara" and attain "enlightnment" one realizes that existence is all connected, or all a perfect union. So in this rapture, one losses itself becoming all in all, knowing and becoming the immovable point at the center, and the center is everywhere and everything. In this realm of the undifferentiated eternity, there is no change, no "pairs of opposites" - therefore no dimensions, that is, zero dimension.

I have no information regarding this opinion.

 

Infamous, you may already know, but if not, I tell you to visit this site, I'm sure you'll be interested. Look over the section where he derives measurements without dimensionals (time is defined as the ratio of "cycles"):

http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp/

Thanks I'll give it a look see.

[EWright]

So do we add these new dimensions to the 11 already predicted by string theory, or are these included? They sure don't sounds like the same thing.

[infamous]

So do we add these new dimensions to the 11 already predicted by string theory, or are these included? They sure don't sounds like the same thing.

If you will read my post #13, you will see that I have redefined my position. UncleAl, whom I respect a great deal, has pointed out my error. In any case, I now believe that we should refer to these aspects of nature as degrees of freedom instead of dimensions. Buckminster Fuller expresses his affirmation for the existence of 12 universal degrees of freedom which I now hold to.

 

I'm not very big on string theory, when they find some good empirical evidence I may be forced to change my mind, but for now, I don't put much stock in the theory.

[Erasmus00]

The problem with looking at forward and backward motion as two seperate degrees of freedom is that degrees of freedom are movements in which energy can be stored, and energy is proportional to velocity squared. For instance, for a nonrelativistic particle, energy stored by moving in the x direction is 1/2*m(Vx)^2. Here Vx is the x component of velocity. For movement in the -x direction, we have 1/2*m(-Vx)^2=1/2*m(Vx)^2, which is the same formula, hence the same degree of freedom. The same logic holds to rotations, clockwise and counterclockwise rotations in the same plain are the same degrees of freedom.

-Will