Urantia Book - Who Could've Hoaxed This?

[Turtle]

I agree. It's really quite odd. It's important to point out that these "races of color" are not modern races, but are the proposed original races that evolved a long time ago. After describing them it goes into detail about how they interacted. Who bred with who and who fought with who. They evolved until Adam and Eve showed up. Adam and Eve are like the master race. It's very strange, not like the biblical story at all. Their job was to sort out the races. Eliminate the degenerates of the races and add their own superior genetics to whoever was worthy by mating their children off. That was Adam and Eve's job - the reason they came to earth. They were here to run an eugenics program. I can't over-stress how weird it is reading it. It's like looking into some deranged fantasy.

 

At first glance it does not look like the history of the races agrees with accepted theory. For one - I don't see a common ancestry coming out of Africa. Certainly not in the right time frame. It would take some time for me to verify and make sure of that, but at first glance it looks wrong. It looks like it was written before modern fossil and genetic paleontology. Turtle would know better what kind of contradictions are there.

 

~modest

 

If time allows, we can take up the issue of discrepancies in paleontology in the Complications & Contradictions thread.

 

To the point of authorship of TUB and 'how weird reading it is', you have hit on just another stylistic device used in the writing. When I first got the book I was going to sections about science based on the index, and in reading I found many terms & names used as if they were known to the reader. Off I'd go to find the meaning explained, but those sections again used new terms & names unfamiliar. To get around this 'weird reading' I simply read the thing cover to cover. The stylistic device of making these references without explanation is throughout the work, and one of the themes of these references is, as you see, the eugenics.

 

I went looking for more on Sadler's 1911 adventure with the 'fair-haired-boys club' in Vienna and found that if he did hang with Freud, Jung, and Adler then, they weren't pretty meetings.

...In 1901 Adler received a letter from Sigmund Freud inviting him to join an informal discussion group that included Rudolf Reitler, and Wilhelm Stekel. They met regularly on Wednesday evenings at Freud's home with membership expanding over time. This group was the beginning of the psychoanalytic movement (Mittwochsgesellschaft or the "Wednesday Society"). A long serving member of the group, Adler became President of the Vienna Psychoanalytic Society eight years later (1910). He remained a member of the Society until 1911 when he and a group of supporters formally disengaged, the first of the great dissenters from Freudian psychoanalysis (preceding Carl Jung's notorious split in 1914). This departure suited both Freud and Adler since they had grown to dislike each other. ...

Alfred Adler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

No better place to drive a wedge than where one already sees a crack. Sadler, the 'Great Debunker', 'Father of American Psychology' is well placed as the 'Great Hoaxer' as well. Adler & Freud died before TUB came out, but Jung was alive 'til 1961. I wonder if he ever saw it? :doh:

[Majeston]

Turtle,

 

I wasn't aware that one of the rules of the site allowed slander as the posters "stylistic device". What evidence do you offer to back up your claim of Doctor Sadler as a "Great Hoaxer"?

 

 

No better place to drive a wedge than where one already sees a crack. Sadler, the 'Great Debunker', 'Father of American Psychology' is well placed as the 'Great Hoaxer' as well.

[Turtle]

The last 40 or so posts are Off Topic, and belong in the companion thread I made for discussions of Urantia Book outside the question of authorship. >> http://hypography.com/forums/theology-forum/14313-urantia-book-complications-contradictions-13.html

 

Like it or not, this thread assumes the book is a hoax and seeks to identify the human author(s). Please keep to the topic and either start new threads for subjects outside this scope or post to the above mentioned thread.

 

There is considerable evidence here that Sadler is the Conductor-In-Charge of hoaxing TUB, and arguments to the contrary based on his being married or well-respected are as good as similar arguments about Jimmy Swaggart, Elliot Spitzer, yada, yada, yada, fallen folk of renown ad nauseum.

 

;)

[TheBigDog]

Like it or not, this thread assumes the book is a hoax and seeks to identify the human author(s). Please keep to the topic and either start new threads for subjects outside this scope or post to the above mentioned thread.

I suspect Turtle could have faked the UB, and if it were not for his addiction to Hypography he would be working on a sequel that would lay to rest many of the unanswered questions from the first book. I bet if we look closely we will find hidden Katabatak references.

 

Bill

[REASON]

The last 40 or so posts are Off Topic, and belong in the companion thread I made for discussions of Urantia Book outside the question of authorship. >> http://hypography.com/forums/theology-forum/14313-urantia-book-complications-contradictions-13.html

 

;)

 

Turtle,

 

I've gone back and reviewed the thread, and literally everything from Post #167 on could be picked out and placed in the http://hypography.com/forums/theology-forum/14313-urantia-book-complications-contradictions-13.html thread.

 

I think it would be a good idea to move them in order to properly maintain the integrity of this thread, and these discussions can be continued over there. I think there are some good points being discussed about errors in UB science that should be addressed more thoroughly, and you are correct that this is not the place for that.

 

Mods?

[Majeston]

Turtle,

 

so nice to see you back.

 

Have you considered that Sir Hubert could have hoaxed it?

 

 

 

Sir Hubert Wilkins (1888-1958)

 

As part of an introduction to his biography, The Last Explorer by Simon Nasht (2006), Jeannette Seaver writes:

 

Hubert Wilkins was a celebrated newsreel cameraman, reporter, pilot, spy, war hero, scientist, and adventurer, but his greatest accomplishments were as an explorer. In fact, if greatness is measure in square miles, Wilkins was the most successful explorer in history, for no one has seen with his own eyes more undiscovered land and sea. He was also the first to fly across the North Pole, which won him a knighthood and many honors, including a tickertape parade in New York. The New York Times called it "the greatest flight in history." He was the first to fly to the Antarctic, and the first to discover land by airplane. He was the first to take a submarine under the polar ice. He proved that no continent underlies the North Pole. He was the first truly modern explorer, who recognized the importance for discovery of new technologies, like the airplane, submarine, and motion picture camera. A visionary, he also grasped the link between the poles and changing global weather, and was a pioneer in weather forecasting and the study of global warming.

 

From The Last Explorer:

 

Sir Hubert Wilkins became a steadfast supporter of the Urantia Movement, and his cheque for $1000 was the first money to go towards the publication costs of The Urantia Book. According to Dr. Sadler it became "Sir Hubert's personal religious philosophy. He came to see us [in Chicago] every year or two, spending two or three weeks reading, studying and making notes." Wilkins would read for up to ten hours a day then spend long evenings with Dr. Sadler and his wife in "very deliberate discussions of the teachings of the Urantia Papers."1 Asked once by a Urantia devotee how he tested the validity of the book, he responded succinctly: "It's utter consistency with itself."2 3

 

1. William S. Sadler, letter to Mrs. Nancy Hildick, secretary of Stefansson, 14 August, 1959. History Archive of The Urantia Book Fellowship

2. JC Mills, The Urantia Book: An Evaluation, 1970 see: How do Science and Technology Contribute to Spiritual Growth?

3. The Last Explorer by Simon Nasht (2006), page 278.

[Turtle]

I suspect Turtle could have faked the UB, and if it were not for his addiction to Hypography he would be working on a sequel that would lay to rest many of the unanswered questions from the first book. I bet if we look closely we will find hidden Katabatak references.

 

Bill

 

I love ya Bill! :D Segues to who-laid-the-chunk in your post.

Could have, but not would have. Tangled web business ya know. ;)

My addiction is to writing, but it is as you say; whatever I write here is nowhere else written.

The UB does have an interesting stylistic device for numbers, which is that in some cases numbers are represented using base ten Arabic numerals, and in other cases written out in words. In addition, some of these values when written in base twelve give even results; e.g. one-thousand-seven-hundred-twenty-eight when expressed in base twelve is 1,000. This is not strictly a Katabatak reference however, and Sadler definitely did not have access to Katabataks. Perhaps some more sleuthing into Sadler may discover what mathematicians of the day he studied and/or communicated with. :singer: ;)

[freeztar]

Moderator Note:

 

253 off-topic posts have been moved from this thread to here:

http://hypography.com/forums/theology-forum/14313-urantia-book-complications-contradictions.html

Please keep the discussion in this thread on topic. All other discussion of The Urantia Book should be confined to the thread linked above, or a new thread. Thanks!

[Turtle]

Turtle,

 

so nice to see you back.

 

Have you considered that Sir Hubert could have hoaxed it?

 

I hadn't heard of him 'til now. I will consider him as a contributing author of course. :D

 

 

 

Sir Hubert Wilkins became a steadfast supporter of the Urantia Movement, and his cheque for $1000 was the first money to go towards the publication costs of The Urantia Book. According to Dr. Sadler it became "Sir Hubert's personal religious philosophy. He came to see us [in Chicago] every year or two, spending two or three weeks reading, studying and making notes." Wilkins would read for up to ten hours a day then spend long evenings with Dr. Sadler and his wife in "very deliberate discussions of the teachings of the Urantia Papers."1 Asked once by a Urantia devotee how he tested the validity of the book, he responded succinctly: "It's utter consistency with itself."2 3

 

1. William S. Sadler, letter to Mrs. Nancy Hildick, secretary of Stefansson, 14 August, 1959. History Archive of The Urantia Book Fellowship

2. JC Mills, The Urantia Book: An Evaluation, 1970 see: How do Science and Technology Contribute to Spiritual Growth?

3. The Last Explorer by Simon Nasht (2006), page 278.

 

Internal consistency is no guarantee of truth in of a system. Alice in Wonderland is internally consitent. Ooooooo!!! ;) I wonder if Sadler communicated with Dodgson before he died? ;)

 

By earlier testimony on writing analysis, the Urantia papers show at least 7 different authors and ostensibly none matching Sadler's hand. If the book of papers is a symphony, Sadler is the producer and conductor of the show, and one doesn' see the conductor seated with the musicians. :singer:

[Majeston]

If the book of papers is a symphony, Sadler is the producer and conductor of the show, and one doesn' see the conductor seated with the musicians. :naughty:

 

Turtle,

 

No matter what happens with your hoax sleuthing it would probably be good to remember this part of the U book:

 

 

160:4.7

 

But life will become a burden of existence unless you learn how to fail gracefully. There is an art in defeat which noble souls always acquire; you must know how to lose cheerfully; you must be fearless of disappointment. Never hesitate to admit failure. Make no attempt to hide failure under deceptive smiles and beaming optimism. It sounds well always to claim success, but the end results are appalling. Such a technique leads directly to the creation of a world of unreality and to the inevitable crash of ultimate disillusionment.

 

160:4.8

Success may generate courage and promote confidence, but wisdom comes only from the experiences of adjustment to the results of one's failures. Men who prefer optimistic illusions to reality can never become wise. Only those who face facts and adjust them to ideals can achieve wisdom. Wisdom embraces both the fact and the ideal and therefore saves its devotees from both of those barren extremes of philosophy—the man whose idealism excludes facts and the materialist who is devoid of spiritual outlook. Those timid souls who can only keep up the struggle of life by the aid of continuous false illusions of success are doomed to suffer failure and experience defeat as they ultimately awaken from the dream world of their own imaginations.

 

160:4.9

And it is in this business of facing failure and adjusting to defeat that the far-reaching vision of religion exerts its supreme influence. Failure is simply an educational episode—a cultural experiment in the acquirement of wisdom—in the experience of the God-seeking man who has embarked on the eternal adventure of the exploration of a universe. To such men defeat is but a new tool for the achievement of higher levels of universe reality.

 

 

Rodan of Alexandria; The Urantia Book: Paper 160

[Buffy]

160:4.7

 

But life will become a burden of existence unless you learn how to fail gracefully. There is an art in defeat which noble souls always acquire; you must know how to lose cheerfully; you must be fearless of disappointment. Never hesitate to admit failure.

Can you explain why you feel that this quote is appropriate for Turtle but not for youself?

 

What is sauce for the goose may be sauce for the gander but is not necessarily sauce for the chicken, the duck, the turkey or the guinea hen, :naughty:

Buffy

[Majeston]

buffy,

 

do u mean those 2 sentences or my whole quote.

[REASON]

buffy,

 

do u mean those 2 sentences or my whole quote.

 

I can answer that.

 

Yes.

[Majeston]

:)

[Buffy]

:shrug:

So are you're saying that they apply only to those who do not unquestioningly accept the truth of TUB?

 

I'm the bear, I'm the bear, with brown fuzzy hair. I'm hiding from the lion, but he doesn't know where, :)

Buffy

[Majeston]

buffy i've never met anyone who didn't question

[Buffy]

buffy i've never met anyone who didn't question

Ah, so you have questioned TUB. What about it have you doubted? Have you found anything in it that you have concluded was wrong?

 

A social ceremony invented by the devil for the gratification of his servants and the plaguing of his enemies, :phones:

Buffy