What happens after life??

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: IrishEyesHowever, the statement, "I do not think that rape or child abuse is a personal freedom", can, especially in today's climate, be argued to be ME imposing MY views onto society at large.

 

My youngest asxked me just yesterday, what is really wrong with killing. A pure philosphical level question. I asked him if it was OK for someone else to kill him. He asked, from which perspective, the other person's or his. I told him, from his personal POV regarding he himslef being the person to be killed. Naturally he said NO, it was not right for someone to kill him. I asked why that should be different for anyone else. That in order for it to not be OK for others to kill you, it has to not be OK for you to kill them. Simple and logical. Add to this that any species that was based on it being normal for members to kill others of that species would have a reduced chance of evolutionary survivle. So it would be hard coded in to our genes naturally.

 

The exact same simple reasoning can be directly applied to rape or anything else that requires one to unvoluntarily reliquish their free choice.

 

So Rape can NEVER be construde to be in the same vein as consenting informed sexual activity.

[ian]

tim-lou

i totally agree with your views i cant understand why people refuse to believe

in the afterlife are thay scared of the unknown or are some of them kill joys

for proof one has only have to take a look at hauntings they are very real

and is not in the mind

[Tim_Lou]

for those who have never experienced NDEs, they will never have an idea or....it just seems crazy to them...

 

but once you experience it, you will believe in it and you know that it exists. just like all the other experiencers.

 

 

also, ian, welcome to our forum!

[Uncle Martin]

Have you had an NDE tim? If so tell me about it. Would there be any way for you to tell for certain if it was a real experience or an hallucination? No matter how unreal something actually is, if your brain perceives it to be reality then you will think it is. That doesn't make it real. I think NDEs are the natural shutdown process of the brain, at the end of that process you're dead, and can't come back to tell everyone about the realistic dream you just had. They could be a peek at the "afterlife". I hope they are. But without any real evidence they remain an unexplained phenomenon.

[Tim_Lou]

na....someone in this forum does and replied long time ago....

 

i am still wondering about stuffs of NDEs.

it is too fantasy to even think about it...

 

the things confusing me is that no real explaination can totaly explain things about NDEs.

 

there are experiences that match reality, experiences so similar that people see similar figures and stuffs.

or experiences that are really impossible to happen, like people are dead and then come alive again...i know some of the things might be made up, such as something like becoming "holy" and having super power after ndes.

 

it is nearly impossible to do a total research about it... if a guy is nearly dead, do you have a right to exam it rather then trying to save his life?.....its just impossible...

 

the only way to find out, and everyone will... is the time when your nearly dead....

[Tim_Lou]

"I too am a christian that believes the same think. I had a near death expirence before back in 5th grade. i was in a fight and got knocked out cold. And i do not watch a lot of tv. i'm not really into it. I mean sometimes i watch speed channel or i watch musci channels. but i dot watch that family type stuff like "its a miracle". I mean my parents do. but i dont. Im usually riding my bike, running or using the computer. that basically wut i do on my spare time. but yeah. i remember it being all bright around me but i could see the peple circled around me. it was wierd. I mean i know for a fact i wasnt under the influence of narcotics or alcochol. But yeah. I believe our bodies decompose but our spirit goes somewhere. Or maybe our spirit goes from our body to another body on another plannet or a parrallel universe.

 

Scuba Wuba "

 

here it is, one of our member, long time ago...the post was like in page 4....you surely cant go over all the posts.....take a look

[patape]

WOAh!! ian... you suggesting people who dont beliele in afterlife scared of the unkown should be directed to people who believe in afterlife... not those who dont... cause whats more scary dying and your not "you" anymore, or having an after life.. so obviously people who believe in a god taking us somwhere or whatever is them being scared of the unkown.. and then becoome confident happy atc, wen convinced by ppl (who want it for the sam reason) or convinvce yourself to that stuff.. ill come back and chat but i just had to adress against what you just said, was really the other way around.. (cause if you have a vsion of afterlife then its not so much the unkown compared whats truly unkown of if your still a you..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i guess a similar example would be where does energy (ex: electric current in a light bulb or whatever go when it burns out? is it dead or just moved energy somewhere else? is it still the same energy (like are you still you) id say probly just another you that you can become but wont recognise present you and will adapt to a "you" that perhaps thinks n feels a bit different.. but evthing similar still i guess whatever apecies you are you still think and have some common things, do all species have emotions? probly i guess so.... where does persona;lity go whn it changes.. it doesnt die just changes form like everythingg else nothing really goes away just changes form part of cycle, things "die" if you want to call it that... im gonna chek google if energy still recycles..?? n1 here can answer that.. i know matter (all substances) do (always here just change forms.. etc cycle n **** u know

[Uncle Martin]

Originally posted by: ian

tim-lou

i totally agree with your views i cant understand why people refuse to believe

in the afterlife are thay scared of the unknown or are some of them kill joys

for proof one has only have to take a look at hauntings they are very real

and is not in the mind

 

This is completely irrational thinking. Fear of the unknown is the very reason people invent mythological explanations of what happens after we die. We refuse to "believe" because there is no evidence in your claims. SHOW US SOME EVIDENCE!! "hauntings"-- where is the evidence? I am not afraid of the unknown so I need no bogus imaginary afterlife. You, my friend are afraid. I will accept the existence of an afterlife if anyone can produce some real proof.

[Freethinker]

Proof? You want proof?

 

What about all them NDE's and out of bodies floating around and Amnityville Horror and Ghost? They wouldn't make all them movies about it if it weren't true.

[Uncle Martin]

Originally posted by: Freethinker

Proof? You want proof?

 

 

 

What about all them NDE's and out of bodies floating around and Amnityville Horror and Ghost? They wouldn't make all them movies about it if it weren't true.

 

I am humbled in the presence of irrefutable proof. How can I possibly argue with that? I must get to a church immediately and beg forgiveness.

[Uncle Martin]

Originally posted by: patape

 

i guess a similar example would be where does energy (ex: electric current in a light bulb or whatever go when it burns out? is it dead or just moved energy somewhere else?

An open circuit has no electron flow.

is it still the same energy (like are you still you) id say probly just another you that you can become but wont recognise present you and will adapt to a "you" that perhaps thinks n feels a bit different..

When the physical brain dies there is no longer a source of electro-chemical energy to sustain consiousness. There is at least no evidence to prove otherwise.

but evthing similar still i guess whatever apecies you are you still think and have some common things, do all species have emotions? probly i guess so.

Emotion has been observed in many species of mammals. I have not seen any evidence of emotion in reptiles, insects, microbes, etc.... So, no, emotions are not exhibited in all species.

...  where does persona;lity go whn it changes.. it doesnt die just changes form like everythingg else nothing really goes away just changes form part of cycle, things "die" if you want to call it that.

Personality is not a tangible object. It exists as an electro-chemical process in the physical brain. It is a process, it proceeds until it ends. Again, there is no evidence to prove otherwise.

.. im gonna chek google if energy still recycles..?? n1 here can answer that.. i know matter (all substances) do (always here just change forms.. etc cycle n **** u know

Energy cannot be created nor destroyed. Energy and matter are two forms of the same phenomenon. There are many websites that explain thermodynamics and entropy much better than I can.

[patape]

AHA!! if you say energy cant be created or destroyed then elecrto process (an energy) that occured in your brain, has to go somewhere right? even if it changes form (any idaes of how?) and the brain and chemicals i guess "die" but since matter cant be destroyed or created then it mmust change form too no, decompose evaporate etc.. well "we" adapt.. im sure ants or oranasims have as much fun as we do even though to us they look boring.. cycle, balance perhaps our energy covers all aspects of life or other activity around this earth or even universe

[patape]

energymatter still existing changing form perhps nergy matter is the "soul" if you will of acuual specific things... this idea of heaven is clearly a human want n less logical.. obvioulsy were gonna want to invent a place that where we see people things etc.. that we got attached to in our expereience (life) and cant let go.. but logicly our energy just adapts and ill get used to other things altough were play our roles by fearing that know and prefer to live on on and go to "heaven"

[Uncle Martin]

AAAh,

I see where you're going with this. Truthfully it's a fairly original argument. This is not my area of expertise(do I have one?). I think TeleMad will be more than happy to explain where your logic fails. I know Freethinker will. I start a new job in the morning and just don't have the time to research the topic now. To sum up what little I do know; the electro chemical energy produced by the brain is ultimately converted to heat energy and lost to dissipation. That is why hats are so nice in winter. If heat energy is capable of conscious thought I guess you've got your front row seat in heaven.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: patape

AHA!! if you say energy cant be created or destroyed then elecrto process (an energy)

I love how you start with "AHA!". Do you think you have discovered some TRAP you are corning us with?

 

The "elctro-chemical" process is NOT Energy. It is a PROCESS that CONVERTS from one form of energy to another. From CHEMICAL to ELECTRICAL or back. The clue would have been to pay attention to the word "PROCESS".

that occured in your brain, has to go somewhere right?

Wrong.

even if it changes form (any idaes of how?)

Angels. These little Angels, the ones that dance on the head of pins, they carry electrons around from atom to atom.

 

OK, probably not.

 

But what PROCESS would "change energy"? Perhaps an Electro-chemical one would change energy from a chemical to an electrical energy?

 

"electrochemical reaction; oxidation-reduction reaction; redox.

A reaction that involves transfer of electrons from one substance to another. Redox reactions always involve a change in oxidation number for at least two elements in the reactants."

http://antoine.frostburg.edu/cgi-bin/senese/searchglossary.cgi?query=electrochemical&shtml=%2Fchem%2Fsenese%2F101%2Fglossary.shtml

 

Valence bonds,

 

http://antoine.frostburg.edu/cgi-bin/senese/searchglossary.cgi?query=valence+bond&shtml=%2Fchem%2Fsenese%2F101%2Fglossary.shtml

 

unstable atomic structures which release free electrons when outside force is applied. Perhaps you heard of one of the more advanced forms of electro-chemical energy devices? It's often referred to as a "BATTERY". They come with well established catagorizations, such as "AA", "AAA", "D", "C", ....

and the brain and chemicals i guess "die" but since matter cant be destroyed or created

And exactly WHO said that "matter cant be destroyed or created"? I'd love to see proof for this one!

energy matter still existing changing form perhps nergy matter is the "soul" if you will of acuual specific things...

It is always possible to twist the otherwise well established defintions of words, into whatever might serve the purpose of the author at that moment in time. But it does not help develop intellectual discourse.

Perhaps "energy matter" (which based on your misunderstanding of the difference between energy and matter, I am not sure of exactly what you are referring to) IS the "soul". But that would make it completely void of "intellect", thought, "knowledge of self".

this idea of heaven is clearly a human want n less logical.. obvioulsy were gonna want to invent a place that where we see people things etc.. that we got attached to in our expereience (life) and cant let go..

I agree that "heaven" is a human invention for people that can not accept the temporary physical existence we actually have. For those that " cant let go..".

but logicly our energy just adapts and ill get used to other things altough were play our roles by fearing that know and prefer to live on on and go to "heaven"

Our "energy", particularly that which is the electro-chemical energy which forms our brain's process, disapates when we die. Our ID/ EGO/ ... dies with us.

[Tim_Lou]

i wonder...

 

when a person dies, breathing stops.

oxygen stops being taken in,

lactic acids are produces instead of "burning carbohydrates".

which only produces 2 ATP instead of 36 (or 34). (i forgot)

 

with this little amount of energy, how is it possible to have NDEs?

 

and after all the stuffs are used up, how are the cells gonna have living activities?

[Uncle Martin]

The best thing about my views on death is that if I'm wrong, I'll learn about it when I die and be better off. If the religious sect is wrong, they'll never know about it. HaHaHaHaHa!!! But they already know everything, don't they? It is impossible to learn anything new when you "know" everything.