Tea Towel Posted June 24, 2004 Report Posted June 24, 2004 When man dies only those who have experienced death can comment on it. If you have not been there you will not understand but in the future all will be revealed, no one can escape the inevitable, whether they are 'narrow minded' or 'broad minded'. I have seen death and I look forwards to embracing it.
Tim_Lou Posted June 24, 2004 Author Report Posted June 24, 2004 how is it possible for reincarnation to occurs (after NDEs)? and where is the energy that causes NDEs to happen? here is a great example: http://www.near-death.com/experiences/suicide03.html some activiation energy must be needed to start live activities after "pronounced dead". (in some cases of NDEs)if everything else fails to explain it, the only possibility is "soul energy"...
Freethinker Posted June 24, 2004 Report Posted June 24, 2004 Originally posted by: Tea TowelWhen man dies only those who have experienced death can comment on it...I have seen death and I look forwards to embracing it. OK Jesus, so you have DIED and come back to life? That IS a first in the history of the world. Please point us to the news articles supporting your claim.
Freethinker Posted June 24, 2004 Report Posted June 24, 2004 Originally posted by: Tim_Lousome activiation energy must be needed to start live activities after "pronounced dead". (in some cases of NDEs) if everything else fails to explain it, the only possibility is "soul energy"...Tim, you are either hard core believer or hard headed (perhaps they are one and the same?) You refuse to accept thge OVERWHELMING evidence that disproves NDE's. We ahve shown WHY and HOW they happen. I have posted the details myself numerous times. If you want to continue to delude yourself intentionally be my guest. But stop pretending there is some value to them in SCIENTIFIC discussion. One finaly comment. NDE's have NEVER been shown to happen to DEAD people.
Uncle Martin Posted June 24, 2004 Report Posted June 24, 2004 Originally posted by: Tea TowelWhen man dies only those who have experienced death can comment on it. If you have not been there you will not understand but in the future all will be revealed, no one can escape the inevitable, whether they are 'narrow minded' or 'broad minded'. I have seen death and I look forwards to embracing it. Do the people who know you eagerly await the day that you "embrace death"? If it's so wonderful why wait?
Freethinker Posted June 24, 2004 Report Posted June 24, 2004 "I do not believe in the immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it." Albert Einstein
Tim_Lou Posted June 26, 2004 Author Report Posted June 26, 2004 when a guy is "pronounced" dead, hes dead. (officially) http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence10.html take a look at this NDE,tell me how a guy is said to be dead,and for 3 days!!!! he was back. if hes not quite dead, that means everybody who is pronounced dead is alive after 3 days?
Freethinker Posted June 28, 2004 Report Posted June 28, 2004 Originally posted by: Tim_Louwhen a guy is "pronounced" dead, hes dead. (officially)But not always DEAD to the point of not being able to be revived. There are lots of examples of people that were declared "legally dead" that are alive to talk abou t it right now. What is your point?take a look at this NDE, tell me how a guy is said to be dead, and for 3 days!!!! he was back. if hes not quite dead, that means everybody who is pronounced dead is alive after 3 days?It has not been uncommon in the past for people that were BURIED to be found alive when people heard noises. There are lots of examples of people recovering when on the autopsy table. I know you are desperate to ignore facts and accept the mystical mumbo jumbo of NDE's. But try to remember Tim, they are called NEAR death experiences. NOT AFTER death experiences.
Tim_Lou Posted June 30, 2004 Author Report Posted June 30, 2004 from the fact that the guy is "pronounced dead" i assume that he was not breathing and his heart wasnt beating. 1. oxygen wasnt being taken in, lactic acid produced instead of complete oxidation, little energy is provided. more than 10 times less. 2. heart beating stopped, sugar in the liver cannot be sent throughout the body, nothing can be used after all material in the cells are used up. 3. 3 days! it is reasonable to say that all the energy is used up. 4. so, how are the neurons able to function? (to create NDEs?) and how did he come back, after everything stops functioning?
Freethinker Posted June 30, 2004 Report Posted June 30, 2004 Originally posted by: Tim_Loufrom the fact that the guy is "pronounced dead" i assume that he was not breathing and his heart wasnt beating. From the NY State Dept of Health "Guidelines For Determination of Death by Irreversible Cessation of All Functions of the Entire Brain, Including the Brain Stem"http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/bsd/attacha.htm But in the deatils they mention things that would appear from the outside to indicate LIFE. "Is all movement attributable to spinal cord function" They included in such after death movement "Posturing and shivering ... Deep tendon reflexes including stereotypic triple flexor responses in the lower extremities .... spontaneous slow movements of an arm or leg. Bizarre movements of entirely spinal origin .... coordinated movements () with shoulder elevation and adduction, back arching and the appearance of intercostal muscle contraction..." One reply to a Google included this heading "Survival without brain damage after clinical death of 60-120 mins ..." In the on-line Wikipedia, they state: "Irreversibility is often cited as a key feature of death. Accordingly by definition it would not be possible to bring an organism back to life; if an organism lives, this implies that it has not died earlier, even if that seemed the case."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death4. so, how are the neurons able to function? (to create NDEs?)You ASSUME that NDE's happen DURING "death". The symptoms associated with NDE's are PROVEN to be reproducable in LIVING humans with drugs or physical stress such as in centrifuges. The symptoms describe in NDEs happen either leading up to, or coming back from. Has your hand or foot ever "fallen asleep"? What you feel is NOT from the time the blood IS cut off, but when it returns. and how did he come back, after everything stops functioning?Have you seen actual medical records?
lindagarrette Posted June 30, 2004 Report Posted June 30, 2004 Regardless of what happens after you die, you won't be there to know about it. Once your memories and their physical attachments are non-functional, that's the end of you as you. My question is when does the end happen. People who are dying of alzheimers are more and more dead until the central nervous system shuts down, I suppose.
Tim_Lou Posted July 1, 2004 Author Report Posted July 1, 2004 you got me,i failed to find any medical records from the website... they are all about NDEs. one thing intresting to mention: "Another notable feature of Dr. Rodonaia’s near death experience – and this is common to many – is that he was radically transformed by it. Prior to his near death experience, he worked as a neuropathologist. He was also an avowed atheist. Yet after the experience, he devoted himself exclusively to studying the psychology of religion. He then became an ordained priest in the Eastern Orthodox Church. Today he serves as an associate pastor at the First united Methodist Church in Nederland, Texas. " he has changed from a guy like Freethinker,to a guy like Irisheyes.
Tim_Lou Posted July 1, 2004 Author Report Posted July 1, 2004 and i wonder, if a guy wasnt dead, y didnt he revive in the first place? that means during the time of frozening, his body was actually recovering itself... and i would say that these guys are REALLY professional to say a guy whos heart was beating and breathing to be "dead".
Freethinker Posted July 1, 2004 Report Posted July 1, 2004 Originally posted by: Tim_Louhe has changed from a guy like Freethinker, to a guy like Irisheyes. I can't wait to see Irish's response! I for one have absolutely no interest in that operation! :-) Back to the specifics. These claims are made all the time. One of the big Christian resources, Josh McDowell made this same claim. He claimed to have been an Atheist in College, but found the Lard and wrote books "proving" the bible is real. It gave him so much more "credibility" to claim he was an Atheist along the way. But then his college roommate was interviewed... can you guess what was found out? YEP, He's a Christian alright, he LIED about it! His roommate said the Josh did have the typical "Questioining" period but at no point did he ever express true Atheism or anything close to it. So what you have found is a series of CLAIMS, which lack ANY supporting documentation, which serve to help promote the FINANCIAL GAIN of the individual named and also promote the existence of something that violates everything else we KNOW thru science. There is LEGITMATE research into NDE's and other out of body claims. EVERYONE of them has FAILED to find ANYTHING credible in it. You can continue to accept the unsupported and convoluted claims of those wishing to sell books and courses if you like. But don't confuse yourself into thinking these unsupported claims have any VALIDITY to them. Tim, I ahve to admit to you that when I was your age, I too accepted many mystical duality concepts. Or at least tried to. And some not even that long ago. It is intriguing and makes good stories. Save yourself the lost time. Come to grips with reality earlier and you will get further sooner.
Freethinker Posted July 1, 2004 Report Posted July 1, 2004 Originally posted by: Tim_Louand i wonder, if a guy wasnt dead, y didnt he revive in the first place?But he DID! That is the entire point. that means during the time of frozening, his body was actually recovering itself...No, it means that if this REALLY happened, he just did not deteriorate too far. But you admit that we can not find ANYTHING to show it actually happened as claimed. and i would say that these guys are REALLY professional to say a guy whos heart was beating and breathing to be "dead".Guidelines have to be established. It is possible in todays medical world to sustain a "dead" body for years. If "legal death" required a complete cessation of all bodily functions BEYOND all possible medical assistance, very few people would actually ever die.
IrishEyes Posted July 3, 2004 Report Posted July 3, 2004 Originally posted by: Tim_Lou he has changed from a guy like Freethinker, to a guy like Irisheyes. I can't wait to see Irish's response! I for one have absolutely no interest in that operation! :-) Oh YUCK!! And i was just getting ready to eat dinner. That'll have to wait now. Tim, that's just icky! C'mon sweetie, I know I seem tough and all, but 'a guy'??? I'm wounded. Deeply, forever wounded. From FreeT:Guidelines have to be established. It is possible in todays medical world to sustain a "dead" body for years. If "legal death" required a complete cessation of all bodily functions BEYOND all possible medical assistance, very few people would actually ever die. Isn't medical technology WONDERFUL!!!???!!! Now, thanks to medical advancements, we can keep people alive FOREVER!! Why should anyone ever have to die? Just hook them up to machines and keep 'em hanging on! That's so much better for the people involved, and all of their families, right?
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