When 1+1 = 1 - philosophical physics

[Qfwfq]

My guess is we have +20 units

On what grounds?

 

I say the pressure in both chambers joined will always be the same as the equal pressures of the chambers before joining them. To make it more intuitive, consider there's a tube with a valve going between them, with the valve closed the two are at the same pressure. Opening the valve won't change the macroscopic situation.

 

Any doubts?

[nkt]

I guess it comes down to teh basic question of what happens if you add

-10 units of pressure to -10 units of pressure?

 

does it equal -20 units or -10 units?

 

keeping in mind that adding a volume of vacuum does not increase the vacuum unless the negative pressure is greater [lesser] than the original pressure.....hmmmmm :xx:

this is my premise

10 v + 13v = 13v

it would only take 13 v to combine the two volumes

 

however 10 p + 13p = 23p

it would tke 23 p to combine the two volumes

I'm lost.

 

If you have a gas and you start adding pressures like this, you run into issues. You need the formula because the atoms/molecules of the gas actually take up a small volume in themselves, so adding box one to box two gives a slightly higher result than it should, unless you are ignoring that?

 

As for negative pressures, well, you can't. You can only have a negative differential, but empty is empty is empty, so you can't add negative numbers of gas molecules, just like you cannot physically have a box with -1 apples in it.

[Qfwfq]

He doesn't mean 10 units less than vacuum, he posted:

Say for example we have 2 cubic 1 meter vacuum chambers and we vacate them to say, -10 units of pressure relative to the pressure outside the chamber.

he's talking about 10 less than atmospheric pressure.

[C1ay]

He doesn't mean 10 units less than vacuum.....

For sure, that's impossible.

[nkt]

Right, so if you add the two bits like that, who can say?

 

P1V1nRT=P2V2nRT or something, isn't it? You still don't use negative values. The values for P still have to be positive, or the results make no sense.

 

Adding negative quantities of physical objects or effects makes no sense.

 

Anyway, assuming your -10 from an arbitary 100 pressure units, is 90. 90P in a volume of 1 + 90P in a volume of 1 = 90P in a volume of 2, or, 180P in a volume of 1, for a constant gas at a constant temperature.

 

The pressure goes up dramatically. But there is no deep mystery to this.

[quantum quack]

It maybe that teh example we have developed is too simple.

of course 0+0 =0

 

But if that zero pressure is given the value of 1vac we also can derive 1+1 =1vac

Philosophically it is only the application of pressure that keeps us separate. If we apply no pressure we are one......[sort of thing]

 

For example is I attempt to change your mind on this issue I am applying pressure and that pressure is additive however if I cease to apply pressure or we are in agreement we are one on the issue thus zero pressure exists. The pressure to change is neutralised once that change has occured.

Any way this is now philosophy so I'll leave it at that, I just thought you deserved an explanation to this threads topic.

sorry guys I have confused the issue totally and made some fundamental errors in reasoning....I have re-quoted myself from an earlier post just to close this issue.