Yes, You Can Go Faster Than Speed Of Light

[Moronium]

This is unreal, I've never seen anything quite like this level of ignorance.

 

If time dilation is non-reciprocal and depends motion relative to a preferred frame then observed time dilation would have to vary depending on motion relative to that preferred frame and therefore would have to depend on the direction of motion in the test frame, so why doesn't it?

 

Answer the question!

 

It does.  Just like time does dilate for the space traveller in the twin paradox.  He just doesn't think it does, not in SR anyway, because SR MANDATES that he think otherwise.

 

If the space traveller would just admit, rather than deny, that he is moving, then he would KNOW that he's the one aging less.  But the fool is stubborn about denying it, because he is required to deny it by SR.

 

If you're looking for evidence of non-reciprocal time dilation, then look no further than the twin paradox, where SR is forced to contradict it's own claims.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Moronium

[Shustaire]

Obviously you two would like to simply squable back and forth, I will wait till you two are done.

 

For the record I dread what the OP of this thread thinks of this discussion. He must be shaking his head in disgust.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Shustaire

[Moronium]

It does.  Just like time does dilate for the space traveller in the twin paradox.  

 

If you're looking for evidence of non-reciprocal time dilation, then look no further than the twin paradox, where SR is forced to contradicts it's own claims.

 

 

People make the mistake of thinking that a preferred frame has to be something ABSOLUTE and universal.  It doesn't.  There can be a preferred frame as between only two objects, without regard for anything else in the universe.

 

In the twin paradox, the earth twin is in the preferred frame. As between the two, his instruments have not been distorted, because he is not the one moving (relative to his twin).  The twin is moving, so his instruments have been distorted.

 

Being the preferred frame, the earth has the "correct" time, the traveller doesn't.  If the traveller used the earth's frame, instead of his own distorted one, to measure time, then he too would get the correct answer, just as his twin does.  The correct answer being that he is really aging less, not his twin. Put another way, the two frames are not "equally valid."  One gives you the correct answer, and the other doesn't.

 

SR tells you as much.  It is the moving clock that slows down.  The problem with SR is that it forces you to pretend that moving things are not moving.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Moronium

[Shustaire]

By the At rest condition correct, GR doesn't have this problem.

 

The problem with SR is that it forces you to pretend that moving things are not moving.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Shustaire

[A-wal]

It does.  Just like time does dilate for the space traveller in the twin paradox.  He just doesn't think it does, not in SR anyway, because SR MANDATES that he think otherwise.

Then why is this never observed in experiments? If there were a preferred frame causing time to dilated then obviously time dilation would depend of motion relative to a frame other than the test frame and we know it doesn't!

 

If the space traveller would just admit, rather than deny, that he is moving, then he would KNOW that he's the one aging less.  But the fool is stubborn about denying it, because he is required to deny it by SR.

Neither one of them has any reason to think or any kind of case for claiming that either is in motion or at rest. They are simply in motion relative to each other.

 

If you're looking for evidence of non-reciprocal time dilation, then look no further than the twin paradox, where SR is forced to contradicts it's own claims.

SR doesn't contradict itself you strawman creating fukktwat! The twin paradox perfectly shows why when twin ends up younger than the other with no contradictions and no preferred frame.

 

People make the mistake of thinking that a preferred frame has to be something ABSOLUTE and universal.  It doesn't.  There can be a preferred frame as between only two objects, without regard for anything else in the universe.

Utter bullshit! Do you have any idea how ****ing stupid that statement really is?

 

If there were a preferred frame then it would have to be universal. Otherwise clocks would slow down or speed up depending on what an observer chooses to measure there velocity relative to. You really don;t have the first ****ing clue how to understand this do you.

 

In the twin paradox, the earth twin is in the preferred frame. As between the two, his instruments have not been distorted, because he is not the one moving (relative to his twin).  The twin is moving, so his instruments have been distorted.

THERE IS NO PREFERRED FRAME IN THE TWIN PARADOX!!! Both are length contracted and time dilated from the perspective of the other while they're in motion relative to each other.

 

If the Earth twin were to fly out and accelerate to the other twin's frame before repeating the experiment again in this NEW frame (starting out in motion relative to the Earth) so that the traveling twin was now at rest relative the Earth while the two are in motion relative to each other and then accelerate back into other twin's frame then it would still be the one that accelerated that would be younger when they meet back up.

 

Being the preferred frame, the earth has the "correct" time, the traveller doesn't.  If the traveller used the earth's frame, instead of his own distorted one, to measure time, then he too would get the correct answer, just as his twin does.  The correct answer being that he is really aging less, not his twin. Put another way, the two frames are not "equally valid."  One gives you the correct answer, and the other doesn't.

Then why don't clocks speed up rather than slow down when they moving in the opposite direction of a test frame you dimwitted *******?

 

SR tells you as much.  It is the moving clock that slows down.  The problem with SR is that it forces you to pretend that moving things are not moving.

Utter bullshit from the ridiculous strawman!

 

 

If the time dilation of objects in motion depended on their motion relative to a preferred frame then then time dilation would HAVE to vary depending on direction of motion in the test frame. This doesn't happen.

[Moronium]

Then why is this never observed in experiments? If there were a preferred frame causing time to dilated then obviously time dilation would depend of motion relative to a frame other than the test frame and we know it doesn't!

 

 

A-wal, it's long been clear that you will NEVER, EVER, in all eternity, understand the difference between what you "observe" and what is truly the case.   We "see" the sun "rising in the east," but that's not really what's happening. 

 

Until you understand this, which you won't, you will continue to confuse yourself about which frame is which, and about what is "real."  You are, by your own admission, a hard-core solipsist.  You will never be able to consider objective reality as being anything different than what YOU think and YOU see.  For you, there's nothing to consider about objective reality, because it doesn't even exist for you.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Moronium

[Shustaire]

We all know the preferred frame is impossible to end the argument.

[Moronium]

We all know the preferred frame is impossible to end the argument.

 

 

Speak for yourself.

[A-wal]

A-wal, it's long been clear that you will NEVER, EVER, in all eternity, understand the difference between what you "observe" and what is truly the case.   We "see" the sun "rising in the east," but that's not really what's happening. 

 

Until you understand this, which you won't, you will continue to confuse yourself about which frame is which, and about what is "real."  You are, by your own admission, a hard-core solipsist.  You will never be able to consider objective reality as being anything different than what YOU think and YOU see.  For you, there's nothing to consider about objective reality, because it doesn't even exist for you.

Meaningless verbal attack on character rather than the argument with no substance whatsoever.

 

Why is the Earth twin in the preferred frame in the twin paradox? Why not the traveling twin while they're in motion relative to the Earth? Do you think Earth happens to be at rest in the preferred frame? So the preferred frame is in motion around our star and around the centre of our galaxy then?

 

Forget starting from Earth. The twins start out in deep space with nothing around them. One twin accelerates away from the other, then comes back. Which one was in the preferred frame while they were in motion relative to each other?

 

How are you defining the preferred frame? You said it was the CBM right? Why don't the clocks of objects speed up if they slow their velocity relative to the CMB then?

Edited July 8, 2018 by A-wal

[Moronium]

A-wal, I'm not going to further address the unsupported and totally mistakenly assertions that you make ad nauseam.  Just keep repeating yourself 10,000 more times, if it makes you feel better.  I'll make one last comment on your last post:

 

If the time dilation of objects in motion depended on their motion relative to a preferred frame then then time dilation would HAVE to vary depending on direction of motion in the test frame. This doesn't happen.

 

 

 

This is completely wrong. Don't ask me why.  I've already explained why about 10 different times in 10 different ways.

 

You'll never understand a word of it.  You are the quintessential FUNDIE.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Moronium

[Moronium]

Meaningless verbal attack on character rather than the argument with no substance whatsoever.

 

Why is the Earth twin in the preferred frame in the twin paradox? Why not the traveling twin while they're in motion relative to the Earth? 

 

 

First, learn to read.  Then read the post quoting Feynman that I made.  Best I can do for you right now, unless you want to re-read the posts I've already made with a view to understanding them, rather than reflexively denying them with no thought whatsoever.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Moronium

[Shustaire]

Then explain this statement.

 

 

 

 

SR tells you as much.  It is the moving clock that slows down.  The problem with SR is that it forces you to pretend that moving things are not moving.

[A-wal]

This is completely wrong. Don't ask me why.  I've already explained why about 10 different times in 10 different way.

Bullshit! You've explained nothing other than ridiculous strawmen that make absolutely no sense.

 

If there were a preferred frame then time dilation (and length contraction) would have to depend on motion relative to that frame, that's the definition of a preferred frame.

 

If time dilation depended on motion relative to a preferred frame then it would HAVE to vary with direction of motion in any frame other than the preferred frame.

 

This doesn't happen so either all tests were performed in the preferred frame or there is no preferred frame!

[Super Polymath]

Bullshit! You've explained nothing other than ridiculous strawmen that make absolutely no sense.

 

Yeah, right.  Just like me smashing your face with my fist with brass knuckles on with a roundhouse haymaker is the same as your face smashing my fist, eh?

 

I could sue you for assault, ya know?  Come to think about it, I probably would, too.

 

 

No, the same as each other yes but also equally absurd. You'd be unconscious before you finished your swing.

 

 

UTTER BULLSHIT! SR deals only in objective reality, if it were talking about the subjective then it would have to take into account the speed up/slow down of clocks that are moving towards/away from the observer. Reciprocal time dilation and length contraction is what you're left with after accounting for subjective effects and there's nothing illogical or inconsistent about it dummy.

 

If there were a preferred frame then objects would be seen to speed up through time, have their length extended instead of contracted and have a reduced mass if they move in the direction that slows them down rather than speeds them up relative to the preferred frame. So how come this never happens Mr Strawman?

 

 

I've already pointed out the flaws in your "reasoning" A-wal, and I won't bother to do it again.  But here's a suggestion for you that will be the ultimate proof that you're right, eh?:

 

SCREAM IT LOUDER

 

 

AUUUGHGHGHG!!!

 

Edited July 8, 2018 by Super Polymath

[A-wal]

First, learn to read.  Then read the post quoting Feynman that I made.  Best I can do for you right now.

In other words you don't have a ****ing clue why the Earth twin should be in the preferred frame!

 

You think the quote you posted shows there's a real physicist who thinks that the reason the Earth twin ends up older in the twin paradox is because the Earth is the preferred frame? I've run out of names to call you. Er, you slow minded gobshite! There.

Edited July 8, 2018 by A-wal

[Moronium]

In other words you don't have a ****ing clue why the Earth twin should be in the preferred frame!

 

 

I clearly stated why in the post itself, fool.  Once again:

 

Learn.

 

To.

 

Read.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Moronium

[A-wal]

SLOW MINDED GOBSHITE!!

 

:rant: