What's half of forever?

[geokker]

It is often said that we are to live eternally in the afterlife. If there is such a thing as forever, then how it be divided up?

 

E.g.

 

A nice fellow lives for 80 years on Earth.

 

He dies, and pops upstairs to Heaven to sit his entrance exam.

 

After passing with flying colours (he'd been a good man) he learns that before him he has nothing but chocolate cake, accommodating brothels and cornflakes that stay crunchy even after the milk has gone.

 

Forever.

 

So, forever - 80 years = ?

 

His lifetime couldn't have been a fraction due to the very definition of forever. Does this invalidate our lives?

 

My question is this: can infinity exist?

 

+ anything forever sounds like a bad idea to me!

[Queso]

well forever can not be a number, since it is infinite.

so we can put it into a model to explain it.

how about....

INFINITE (divided by) TWO = X

x is half of forever.

woohoo.

[Guest loarevalo]

I take it you don't know much about infinity. Mathematicians have done A LOT with infinity, since it's so complex and counterintuitive. Everyone can profit from a quick explanation about the modern theory of infinity, or at least of some of its findings:

 

* There are many sizes of infinity. There is a marked difference between the potential infinity of Arithmetic and Calculus, and the actual infinities dealt in Set Theory:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_number

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleph_number

 

* Infinity plus one is Infinity. That fact I think dwells on the obvious. Aleph_a +1 = Aleph_a (Example: Aleph_null +1 = Aleph_null):

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Aleph-0.html

 

Obviously INF/2 = INF and INF +1 = INF and INF + INF = INF

Of course, our mathematics don't necesarily apply to the greater expanse of God. We just don't know how a lot about the laws that govern Heaven, as to physical laws. Here on earth everything is temporal, changes, dies, corrupts, and justice is seldom served. Time as we know it may be different in Heaven, or not exist at all:

 

"And sware by him that liveth for ever ... that there should be time no longer"

Rev. 10:6

 

If we wouldn't exist forever, then we come to a point when we cease to exist, and my view therefore unable to be happy despite all our efforts and the efforts of God. That's why I would not accept the materialistic view that life ends at mortal death - because necesarily leave us in despair, and misery, without a purpose in life, or direction. There would be no reason to exist at all if we only existed temporally - that's my view.

[jerryo]

quote:

"If we wouldn't exist forever, then we come to a point when we cease to exist, and my view therefore unable to be happy despite all our efforts and the efforts of God. That's why I would not accept the materialistic view that life ends at mortal death - because necesarily leave us in despair, and misery, without a purpose in life, or direction. There would be no reason to exist at all if we only existed temporally - that's my view."

 

 

...who or what is it that lives forever ?

 

;)

 

is not once around the block good enough?

 

..all this and heaven too ?

 

oh my! ;)

[jerryo]

...isn't there a character in the bible who thought

he would be like God and live forever ?

 

wait !! ...it slips my memory at this time

 

hmmmmm..

 

who was that fella ?

 

;)

[EWright]

If on a numberline we can go from zero to a positive direction for eternity, and a negative direction for eternity... then wouldn't the half way point of all eternity = 0 = nothing? ;)

[OpenMind5]

But its the same for any number. Zero is just a stating point.

[OpenMind5]

O, about that original question...half of infinit. I agree with loarevalo. Inf/2=inf

But thats in terms of numbers. as loarevalo put it...that doesn't put into accounts of other laws that we do not know about.

 

AND

Jerryo, do u not want more? Just wondering...

 

Op5

[Southtown]

If on a numberline we can go from zero to a positive direction for eternity, and a negative direction for eternity... then wouldn't the half way point of all eternity = 0 = nothing? ;)

No that would be 2(inf)/2 = inf

 

Why the existence of the concept of eternity in temporal beings?

[UncleAl]

It is often said that we are to live eternally in the afterlife. If there is such a thing as forever, then how it be divided up?

"Az di bobe vot gehat beytsim volt zi geven mayn zeyde."

Do you have three grandfathers?

[Guest loarevalo]

If on a numberline we can go from zero to a positive direction for eternity, and a negative direction for eternity... then wouldn't the half way point of all eternity = 0 = nothing? :Alien:

 

I saw yesterday the movie "I love huckabees" - besides being funny, it's very enlightening. Existentialism tries to explain eternity or infinity in terms of existing on earth - you should see it.

 

I would rather see the midpoint of everything as 1. In the absolute scale of numbers, you start at nothing, and end at everything, being in the middle "unity" or 1. Of course, you could deem the numbers less than 1 as being mirrored from numbers greater than 1, so then you can begin at 1 and end at the absolute multiplicity - everything. But that absolute multiplicity would be complete and therefore philosophically a "unity." So we go from 1 to 1, or everything to everything, eternity to eternity.

 

We can think of the universe as separated, or catalogued, or numbered, yet the belief is that everything is part of the absolute unity/everything. "Everything is connected." No matter how hard we try, we can't create anything - we just organize - those are the laws of conservation.

 

If we can't separate and catalogue eternity, is because eternity cannot be divided in finite terms - and we can only think in finite terms. Who can concieve what eternity is? We understand things in discreet ways.

 

We see all things as having a beginning and an end - that may be the flaw in we trying to divide eternity.

[geokker]

Obviously INF/2 = INF and INF +1 = INF and INF + INF = INF

 

My point is that forever is forever. It cannot be divided otherwise, it wouldn't be forever. So, if the nature of time beyond our natural lives is equitable, it cannot be said fairly to be infinite as our natural lives would have to be a divisible fraction to be distinct.

[EWright]

My point is that forever is forever. It cannot be divided otherwise, it wouldn't be forever. So, if the nature of time beyond our natural lives is equitable, it cannot be said fairly to be infinite as our natural lives would have to be a divisible fraction to be distinct.

 

What about INF/0? If the universe is infinite in size, how was it ever smaller than it is and how it is that it is expanding? If Heaven is eternal, how can we experience our first day their? If time is infinite, how was there a beginning to any one thing, including the universe itself?

[infamous]

What about INF/0? If the universe is infinite in size, how was it ever smaller than it is and how it is that it is expanding?

Defining the universe as infinite does not preclude the distance between objects from expanding.

If Heaven is eternal, how can we experience our first day their?

It is entirely possible for eternity to have a beginning event followed by an infinite number of successive events.

If time is infinite, how was there a beginning to any one thing, including the universe itself?

Time can be defined as the passage of events, so when questioning weather time is infinite or not, it is really asking the same question as was posed in your second question about eternity. Having a beginning does not prevent eternity so long as following events never cease.

[Guest loarevalo]

My point is that forever is forever. It cannot be divided otherwise, it wouldn't be forever. So, if the nature of time beyond our natural lives is equitable, it cannot be said fairly to be infinite as our natural lives would have to be a divisible fraction to be distinct.

Under an eternal perspective, our lives are as a "point" in the continuum of infinite time. Nevertheless, here we're still interpreting "eternity" like "infinite time," which aren't necesarily equivalent. Eternity, is by definition of eastern religions, incomprehensible - that is, until one gets to eternity or has achieved "illumination." Their ideas about eternity are very interesting - I think there's worth in asking this thread's questions in context of that philosophy.

 

Eastern philosphy would say that the mere thought of separation, discreteness, distinction, is an illusion. In the realm of eternity, there is only oneness, all in all and there are no "divisions." From an initial primitive idea that "everything is connected" (watch the movie "I love huckabees") comes the ultimate truth that "everything is one."

[Southtown]

It is entirely possible for eternity to have a beginning event followed by an infinite number of successive events.

Indeed, is a totally different concept than .

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity#Infinity_in_real_analysis

[alxian]

the amount of time it takes your life to flash before your eyes and the time it takes for her to realize what you just said.

 

the other half of forever being the hellish aftermath...

 

 

for a good example you can check out the NN archives for michelle pantolianos story about her trip to the video store with her fiancee.. quite an interesting story.