Terra Preta - The parent thread which started it all

[Michaelangelica]

yes. I don't have any knowledge on whether Amazonians purposefully manufactured activated charcoal.

More cavities=better in terms of how long the adsorption continues without further application of charcoal.

 

It seems Amazonians made these soils purposefully; so they must also have made the charchol. Aparently there is evidence that the charchol has been deliberatly ground down into fine particles before adding to the soil. The soil is definately a man-made artifact that at one time supported a huge population.

 

The soils seem to last a long time.

Some modern Amazonians sell Terra praeta soils to other farmers. They say this is fine because their Terra praeta soil "grows back" !

Michael

[erich]

A few years ago,can't recall where, I saw an article on the Terra preta soils comparing it to the native arboriculture practiced by the east coast Indians. What the Europeans saw as virgin hardwood forest was in fact a large scale permaculture of predominantly nut trees.

 

Over the past 25 years I've experimented in my soil prep regimes with charcoal, ag gypsum, the expanded clays, this is what I have come to believe is the biggest bang for the buck , at least for my clay & loam soils in the Shenandoah valley of VA:

 

Permatill (also called VoleBloc): a mined expanded slate from NC, in the bag or if you have a big job you can get it by the tractor trailer. It is also used as growing medium for "Green Roof" installations.When roots hit it they bifurcate like crazy

 

Mycorisal fungus inoculation: The sleep then creep then leap phenomena of new plantings is over come by the acceleration of the reestablishment of the symbiotic fungal / root relationship. M-Roots is the best , 25 billion per 40 lb bag @ $13, both indo and exo species

 

Good old Compost: I have cultivated several poultry farmers over the years into making compost, at $20 per yard , I top dress with an inch before mulching every year, and let the worms feed the deeper soil. My worm populations have gone from 1 per every 2 shovels of soil to 5 per 1 shovel.

 

Also a big WiltPruf Fan , and water holding polymers (SoilMoist) for containers

 

Erich

[Michaelangelica]

Permatill (also called VoleBloc): a mined expanded slate from NC, in the bag or if you have a big job you can get it by the tractor trailer.

Mycorisal fungus inoculation:

Also a big WiltPruf Fan , and water holding polymers (SoilMoist) for containers

 

Erich

 

 

'Permatill' and 'Mycorisal fungus inoculation' are not available to home gardeners here.

Are there other ways to encourage Mycorrhizal fungus?

What is a "big WiltPruf Fan"?

I often worry that water holding crystals suck water out of plants as they dry out.(?) I've played with them but I usually end up with a mess in pots.

 

here is another web site on Terra preta . A good summary of what has been found:

http://www.discussanything.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-68405.html

 

"Terra preta is scattered throughout Amazonia, but it is most frequently found on low hills overlooking rivers—the kind of terrain on which indigenous groups preferred to live. According to Eduardo Neves, an archaeologist at the University of São Paulo who is part of the Iranduba team, the oldest deposits date back more than 2000 years and occur in the lower and central Amazon; terra preta then appeared to spread to cultures upriver. By A.D. 500 to 1000, he says, “it appeared in almost every part of the Amazon Basin.”

 

Typically, black-soil regions cover 1 to 5 ha, but some encompass 300 ha or more. The black soils are generally 40 to 60 cm deep but can reach more than 2 m. Almost always they are full of broken ceramics. Although they were created centuries ago—probably for agriculture, researchers such as Woods believe—patches of terra preta are still among the most desirable land in the Amazon. Indeed, terra preta is valuable enough that locals sell it as potting soil. To the consternation of archaeologists, long planters full of terra preta, complete with pieces of pre-Columbian pottery, greet visitors to the airport in the lower Amazon town of Santarém.

 

As a rule, terra preta has more “plant-available” phosphorus, calcium, sulfur, and nitrogen than surrounding oxisols; it also has much more organic matter, retains moisture and nutrients better, and is not rapidly exhausted by agricultural use when managed well.

 

The key to terra preta's long-term fertility, Glaser says, is charcoal: Terra preta contains up to 70 times as much as adjacent oxisols. “The charcoal prevents organic matter from being rapidly mineralized,” Glaser says. “Over time, it partly oxidizes, which keeps providing sites for nutrients to bind to.” But simply mixing charcoal into the ground is not enough to create terra preta. Because charcoal contains few nutrients, Glaser says, “high nutrient inputs via excrement and waste such as turtle, fish, and animal bones were necessary.” Special soil microorganisms are also likely to play a role in its persistent fertility, in the view of Janice Thies, a soil ecologist who is part of a Cornell University team studying terra preta. “There are indications that microbial biomass is higher in terra preta,” she says, which raises the possibility that scientists might be able to create a “package” of charcoal, nutrients, and microfauna that could be used to transform oxisols into terra preta.

 

Michael

[erich]

Maybe there is some place in Australia that has this type of slate, here's their site to learn more: http://www.permatill.com/

 

Wiltpruf is a anti-transpirent , it almost eliminates transplant shock: http://www.wiltpruf.com/

 

Be careful on how much water polymer you use in the planting mix.

 

I saw an article about a guy in GA who has put together a water polymer kit to spray it on your house in case of wild fire, very cool.

 

Here's the M-Roots site: http://www.rootsinc.com/

I spoke with one of their tech guys, he said that Australia was impossible to export to, but gave me these sites for companies that were working to develop indigenous fungus in India and Asia :

http://www.biotech-int.com/

http://sribio.com/companyprofile.htm

 

Cheers,

Erich

[Turtle]

I made an observation today we haven't brought up, nor did I hear mentioned in the show or links. Even mixed in the soil, some of the charcoal stays on the surface & so warms the soil in sunlight more than if it weren't there. Noticed it when I got nose to seedling with my radish seedlings this afternoon.:D :)

[Michaelangelica]

The problem with biomes such as tropical rain forests and tropical reefs is that there is such an abundance of life that the nutrients available are all used IN the life and the soil/water is VERY nutrient poor.

This sounds like a poorly researched and biased show that this came from. The only real way to allow for farm land to stay fertile is either through artificial fertilization (not the best) or a cycle of crop rotation and allowing fallow periods upon the field.

This, (BBC TV show) was not a "poorly researched and biased show" there is heaps of research to support their arguments

Fertilisers were used in Terra preta soils.

Terra praeta is not 'slash and burn'. The very opposite (See web links in my previous post(s)). Charchol was made then deliberatly ground into superfine particles.

Charchol however is not the whole story

1. The pottery shards, thousands of them, ONLY in Teraa preta soils.

Does this act as a catalyst. If not why is it there and no where else?

2. How can soils "grow back" yet this is the belief of the indians who sell their Terra preta soils. It might take 20 years but it grows back!

3.Is there a special set of microraganisms that make Terra preta soils fertile? . It is thought so. That is where the reseach is focussing now. Check out the Cornell Uni site on Terra preta and seach their servers. This is real! It is big deal! It may convince Brazillians that "slash and burn", or just "Burn" as it is now, is not the way to go

It might also mean that we all have more fertile soil; while at the same time,we get greater bang- for-the-buck from fertilisers.

 

See also the suggestion that global sequistration of carbon could reduce global CO2 levels to pre-industrial levels.

 

Michael

[Michaelangelica]

I made an observation today we haven't brought up, nor did I hear mentioned in the show or links. Even mixed in the soil, some of the charcoal stays on the surface & so warms the soil in sunlight more than if it weren't there. Noticed it when I got nose to seedling with my radish seedlings this afternoon.;) ;)

 

fascinating observation. (thinks ) So the extra heat does what? helps/hinders soil microorganisms?

Drys out soil -probably not in amazon

Would it help my plants in pots/

I have heard of people putting aluminium foil on pots to reflect light back up into plants; Charcoal would do the opposite.

 

This was an interesting post on another topic (PH):

 

It’s often handy to increase PH (decrease acidity) with “buffering” agents, such as solid wood or charcoal washed in the solution. This can limit acidity (low PH) without producing excessive alkalinity (high PH), and doesn’t require PH to be measured first.

 

CraigD - Junior Moderator

Last edited by CraigD : 04-23-2006 at 09:54 AM.

Michael

[Michaelangelica]

Some more information fromhttp://www.eprida.com/hydro/

 

8. Utilization of Indigenous AMF by the Application of Charcoal

 

(selected paragraph) The idea that the application of charcoal stimulates indigenous arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi (AMF) in soil and thus promotes plant growth is relatively well-known in Japan, although the actual application of charcoal is limited due to its high cost. The concept originated in the work of M. Ogawa, a former soil microbiologist in the Forestry and Forest Products Research Institute in Tsukuba. He and his colleagues applied charcoal around the roots of pine trees growing by the seashore, and found that Japanese truffles became plentiful. He also tested the application of charcoal to soybean with a small quantity of applied fertilizer, and demonstrated the stimulation of plant growth and nodule formation (Ogawa 1983). His findings with regard to legumes were taken up for further study by the National Grassland Research Institute (Nishio and Okano 1991).

Stimulation of Nutrient Uptake by Charcoal Application

 

The amount of nutrients (N, P, K) absorbed by the shoots showed a trend similar to that of the shoot fresh weight (Table 1). The amount of N fixed by the nodules and transported to the shoots was calculated by subtracting the N content of the shoots of the plants not inoculated with rhizobia from the N content of the inoculated plants ([F+R]-[F], [F+R+C] - [F+C]). The addition of charcoal increased this amount of N 2.8-4.0 times, and the ARA by 6.2 times (Table 2). Added charcoal also increased the nodule weight by 2.3 times.

 

PDF Version

 

Michinori Nishio, (1999) National Institute of Agro-Environmental Sciences - Japan

 

AND

Shell breaks barrier. Worldwide effect on hydrogen, fertilizer and sequestered carbon.

 

August 31, 2002 - Researchers using biomass from peanut shell ended a successful 100-hour experiment to demonstrate hydrogen production. They announced a method to sequester vast amounts of carbon while making fertilizer. This is one of the largest biomass to hydrogen projects in the U.S.

 

The hydrogen research team broke through the 100-hour mark and ended their demonstration of producing hydrogen from 50kg per hour of biomass on August 30, 2002. The team comprised of researchers from Clark Atlanta University, Georgia Institute of Technology, DOE National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL), Scientific Carbons, Inc. and Enviro-tech, Inc. began the experiment on August 25, 2002 producing hydrogen from biomass (peanut shells) as the culmination of a two-year field research project. The project has focused on expanding the demonstration of hydrogen production while producing valuable co-products from farm and forestry sources of biomass. In this case the co-product also serves as a long-term sequestered carbon. The need for co-products is essential to developing a profitable and sustainable hydrogen economy.

 

On August 22, 2002, NREL and Scientific Carbons, Inc.(SCI), a technology development company, filed for patent protection on a new slow release fertilizer made while producing biomass based hydrogen and a sequestered carbon. This product offers a chance for the fertilizer and farm industry to become a significant carbon sink while increasing farm income and crop yields. The use of the sequestered carbon as a carrier for nitrogen and as a soil amendment, which can prevent harmful runoff of farm chemicals is a win-win for farmers. Farmers and fertilizer manufacturers can become a major force in the battle against global warming while facilitating a renewable production of hydrogen. This work combines efforts currently underway in both the USDA and DOE and provide a way to reduce greenhouse gas buildup while producing the zero emissions fuel hydrogen. Danny Day, President of Scientific Carbons said, “The preliminary numbers look promising. Only a small percentage of the global unused agriculture and forestry waste would be required to sequester the amount of carbon building up in our atmosphere and deliver nitrogen to plants that can sequester even more. Using this technique, farmers could be the most successful and economically profitable method of sequestering all the excess atmospheric carbon generated. Economic development can lead to innovative sequestration techniques and we want to help demonstrate sustainable ways to serve mankind.”

FROM

http://www.eprida.com/hydro/

I'm not sure I undersatand how Hydrogen gets into the equasion?

[Turtle]

fascinating observation. (thinks ) So the extra heat does what? helps/hinders soil microorganisms?

Drys out soil -probably not in amazon

Would it help my plants in pots/

I have heard of people putting aluminium foil on pots to reflect light back up into plants; Charcoal would do the opposite.

 

Thinking....:)

1) I don't know about warmer soil helping microorganisms; so many other variables come into play.

2)I just learned about evaporation tray set-ups for measuring evaporation rates (see Global Dimming thread). They said that photons striking water account for most evaporation rather than wind, or temp, or humidity. Since the charcoal is not only absorbing heat, but also blocking the soil under it from the Sun, I don't think evaporation increase is expected.

3) Early in this thread, Uncle Al recommends charcoal in potted plants & gives some justifications.

4) Foil does work, but it is unsightly & reflects light unevenly. White material reflects light more evenly so you might use cardboard, house-wrap or other white plastic film.

 

Off to read your link: http://www.eprida.com/hydro/

:naughty:

[Michaelangelica]

Thinking....:hyper:

1) I don't know about warmer soil helping microorganisms; so many other variables come into play.

2)I just learned about evaporation tray set-ups for measuring evaporation rates (see Global Dimming thread). They said that photons striking water account for most evaporation rather than wind, or temp, or humidity. Since the charcoal is not only absorbing heat, but also blocking the soil under it from the Sun, I don't think evaporation increase is expected.

3) Early in this thread, Uncle Al recommends charcoal in potted plants & gives some justifications.

Off to read your link: http://www.eprida.com/hydro/

:hihi:

Thanks - that makes sense to me

-check out the first tread i gave -the one on "tera preta saving soil & planet etc". it gives one of the best run downs yet on terra preta soils.

The eprida link just confused me. What is the story with charchol and hydrogen production? The eprida link dose't seem to have been updated since 2002?

Off to read global dimming link

Thanks

PS

Does anyone know how to coppice? Seems the English used this system for centuries to produce charchol as well as preserve their forests. How did they make charchol?

I would love to make my own it seems so expensive.

[Michaelangelica]

THIS

http://hypography.com/forums/medical-science-news/5554-science-class-experiment-reveals-vitamin-b12.html#post101541

seems relevant somehow?

 

"If the mutant was broken because it could not make DMB," she said, "then if we added DMB back it should be okay. So we added DMB, and the bacteria went back to acting like ordinary [symbiotic] bacteria. That was the defining experiment."

 

When the researchers provided DMB so that the bacteria did not have to manufacture it themselves, the bacteria's extraordinary brilliance subsided to a more uniform fluorescence on the lab dish with the laundry whitener. And in the lab dish with the seedlings, the restored bacteria produced a bigger, healthier plant. Chemist and co-author Kavita Mistry followed up with biochemical experiments to prove that the bluB mutant could not make B12 without added DMB.

 

"Our findings just mean bluB is necessary for the reaction," Taga said. "We are currently doing experiments to show that it directly catalyzes the reaction."

 

But Roth said the discovery gives him hope for finding all the steps in the pathway for synthesizing B12. "This is the part that has resisted genetics and chemistry," he explained. "We've tried it. Others have tried it. This appears to be the first enzyme dedicated to synthesizing the part."

 

Other bacteria, such as the Salmonella that Roth studies, appear to substitute other molecules in place of DMB, stymieing genetic approaches. But the form of B12 that people need contains DMB.

 

The discovery of the bluB mutant may overturn a theory that DMB spontaneously forms without enzymes to speed up the reaction, Roth said. Before the bluB mutant was identified, that theory made sense because the reactions that make B12 do not require energy, in contrast to most biosynthetic reactions.

 

Taga and Walker are following up to figure out how the bluB mutation affects the symbiotic relationship between the bacteria and the plant.

[Michaelangelica]

More info

While looking at Global dimming thread i found this PBS web sitehttp://discussions.pbs.org/viewtopic.pbs?t=53527&sid=77df977d82c0c8f0095df9baa3f30a2f

 

Terra Preta wrote:

I am very conscious about global worming this documentary is really shocking. I am working with charcoal for soil amelioration. Currently I am traveling around the world to get charcoal acknowledged as a carbon sink. We can produce charcoal out of any biomass (waste products and agricultural residues normally burned today). Bringing this charcoal (inert against microbial decomposition hence it remains in the soil) back into agricultural fields reduces CO2 in the atmosphere and simultaneously improves soil fertility. Charcoal is only one product from biomass pyrolosis. The production of energy is the main aim and this provides us with carbon negative energy. I would like to encourage David Sington to show us technologies how to reverse global warming and prospects as impressive as we have seen the human induced climate change in this documentary.

Thank you for this good work! There is a link to discover between the ?The Secret of El Dorado? and ?Timing the Sun?. ?Closing the Cycle? could be the next. (http://www.eprida.com)

 

 

There is something else which is being used mainly in Japan called EM (Effective Microorganisms). A Japanese professor in agriculture discovered it by a chance during a class, after he had extracted a certain component of microorganisms that naturally occur in fermentation. These organisms are now used to detoxify soil, water and even air with great success. They add the natural 'vitamins' and vitality back into nature. They are even used by some factories on their waste materials, and again with good success of eliminating the toxic waste.

What I find interesting with EM is that you dont take a singular item or substance from somewhere and add it in excess elsewhere (nature is delicate and can counterreact) but you fill nature with what is already in there but which is depleted; positive microorganisms.

I am surprised (or should I be?!) that there has not been a decision on a politicial level to implement these organisms into all factories, waterplants, soil management, etc.

 

I really recommend everyone to read AN EARTH SAVING REVOLUTION by Dr Teruo Higa. It can be ordered through Amazon and explains the whole discovery and theory behind these simple microorganisms. Its a facsinating book.

[erich]

Thanks so much Michael for your informative efforts,

 

I have sent links to this forum to Dr. Felder of NanoLogix http://www.nanologix.net/ and to Crag Ventor's group , and to the Tech guys at M-ROOTS.

 

With the tipping point threat of melting permafrost these soil technologies seem to me to be the most cost effective responce.

 

Great work!,

 

Erich J. Knight

[Michaelangelica]

Another website with a worrying comment

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,64871,00.html

 

Day, along with researchers at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory, Oak Ridge National Laboratory and the Georgia Institute of Technology, is developing technology based on the carbon-rich Terra Preta concept that uses charcoal to absorb greenhouse gases at facilities that burn fossil fuels. The charcoal is then mixed with other nutrients to create a super fertilizer, according to Day.

 

Day said that to create the charcoal that could be used as fertilizer, the biomass must be burned at temperatures somewhat lower than usual (say, 250 to 300 degrees Celsius).

 

"It's not the stuff you use in your barbecue," he said, noting that microbes in the nutrients bind the carbon to the mixture, preventing it from being released into the air or leeched into the ground for up to 5,000 years.

 

The charcoal fertilizer could be used to restore the nutrients in areas around the globe where soil has been depleted, according to Day. He believes charcoal-enhanced soil could increase crop yields by 200 percent to 300 percent.

 

Eprida has performed a demonstration of the scrubbing process, and Day said the next step is to develop a biomass processing plant adjacent to a coal power plant to test the technology on a large scale.

 

But Galen Suppes, associate professor of chemical engineering at the University of Missouri-Columbia, said he has "low regard" for technologies that claim to reduce greenhouse gases by turning them into solids.

 

"I don't believe that the product you are turning into carbon is going to stay in the ground. Five years down the line, it's back in the atmosphere," he said. "In a lot of this technology you are just playing games with the carbon.... Sometimes it breaks down very quickly, and sometimes not."

 

Johannes Lehmann, assistant professor in the Department of Soil Fertility Management and Soil Biogeochemistry at Cornell University, however, said the carbon has been retained in the soil at the Terra Preta sites in South America for up to 3,000 years.

 

I was concerned about this comment-

"Day said that to create the charcoal that could be used as fertilizer, the biomass must be burned at temperatures somewhat lower than usual (say, 250 to 300 degrees Celsius)"

 

So what is a home gardener to do?

When is charchol not charchol?

Today I spent a futile hour tring to buy charchol to mix into my potting mix.

One nursery had a kilo or so for $7

Another had activated chjarcol for fish tanks - imported from Japan -for abou$10 for 500grams

I had purchased a largish 5K? bag of BBQ charchol from the local supermarket, crushed this up and used it (about $7). Now they no longer stock it (It was imported from Malaysia)

Where my efforts in vain given the above comment?

Any thoughts?

 

On microrganisms I have found an Australian source of a Japanese mix;

but was very intersted in this marijuana web site which had a nice long discussion on brewing your own microbrial tea

SEE:

http://www.marijuana.com/Bible.php?loc=30&id=23

That link does't seem to get me to the page (I have printed-although google gives the same address? help?)

Basically the author recommended a "beginners' recipe for making a compost tea

20% sugar

10% yeast extract

10% kelp meal

compost

+

oxygen

Leave in a vat for acouple of weeks and it will grow into a nice tea"

[Charcoal]

I made an observation today we haven't brought up, nor did I hear mentioned in the show or links. Even mixed in the soil, some of the charcoal stays on the surface & so warms the soil in sunlight more than if it weren't there. Noticed it when I got nose to seedling with my radish seedlings this afternoon.:singer: :phones:

 

Soil temperature measurements were made in Brazil and they found that soil temperature is lower (at least in the tropics) if covered with charcoal. Charcoal keeps some insolating adjectives from the wood. It is a very interesting material. Soil moisture is higher too. The effect was similar to soil covered with grass.

[Charcoal]

Activated charcoal is produced with high temperature and the conversion efficiency is low (carbon in biomass to carbon in charcoal). It is used as an adsorbent. Bio-char is charcoal produced at lower temperatures (with ~50% c yield). The pH, adsorbing capacity, poor size and structure of charcoal is temperature dependent and so is the effect on certain crops and soils. Charcoal applications can be optimized. Some charcoals (peanut shell) contain plant nutrients others not. For us to study the "charcoal effect" charcoal without or only low nutrient contents are the interesting ones.

[Charcoal]

So would Amazonian Natives have access to 'activated carbon'? Would the temperatures in pottery kilns be high enough to make the charcoal become activated? the research doesn't seem to make clear what sort of carbon we are talking about.

If 'activated' has more cavities; wouldn't this be a good thing?

 

Terra preta is more than only charcoal. Charcoal and maybe the pottery perhaps favored a special microbial community. The Terra Preta fertility (pH 6-7, very high P and Ca contents) are mainly due to bones. Besides charcoal, Terra Preta contains lots of bones from fish, animals and supposedly humans too.