Terra Preta - The parent thread which started it all

[Charcoal]

I'm not sure I undersatand how Hydrogen gets into the equasion?

 

http://www.eprida.com

 

~ 50% of the hydrogen produced today is used for ammonia (NH4) production. With increasing fossil energy prices nitrogen fertilizer (ammonia) gets more expensive. The Eprida carbon cycle produces hydrogen from any biomass source. Hydrogen is used for GTL-diesel, N-fertilizer and charcoal. The charcoal combined with ammonia will act as a slow release fertilizer.

[SoilWatcher]

Another website with a worrying comment

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,64871,00.html

 

I was concerned about this comment-

"Day said that to create the charcoal that could be used as fertilizer, the biomass must be burned at temperatures somewhat lower than usual (say, 250 to 300 degrees Celsius)"

 

So what is a home gardener to do?

When is charchol not charchol?

 

Indeed, it does seem to be necessary to do it at low temperature. It is assumed they used smoldering burning piles, putting brush or dirt on top to keep it from burning too hot.

 

Here's something more about it:

 

http://www.eprida.com/hydro/yahoo2004.htm

 

Low temperature woody charcoal (not grass or high cellulose) has an

interior layer of bio-oil condensates that microbes consume and is

equal to glucose in its effect on microbial growth (Christoph Steiner,

EACU 2004). High temp char loses this layer and does not promote soil

fertility very well. ... Evidence of terra preta's ability to

grow and sequester more carbon was undercovered by soil scientist

William Woods (U.Illinois). The work is still under investigation in

Brazil by over the last 20 years mining terra preta for potting soil

has not decreased its availability. Farmers have learned it recovers a

centimeter per year. The possibility those small fractions of char

continually migrate down, providing housing for microbes as they

process surface-cover biomass. The microbes and fungi live and die

inside the porous media increasing its carbon content.

[Racoon]

This thread is Way Cool!

 

SuperDirt!

Its ironic that members named Soilwatcher and Charcoal are jumping in. :(

 

This info has been great. Soil productivity is crucial to survival...

 

MichealAngelica, posted a nice link,

http://www.marijuana.com/Bible.php?loc=30&id=23

But I couldn't access the info either. I think you need to register.

 

If anyone knows alot about dirt, its Pot Growers! :)

Not that I'm trying to cultivate; that would be illegal... :D

 

I need to look for some Charcoal around here. It is pretty spendy (for the kind you weed, errrr need.)

Turtle? where do you recommend purchasing some around our area?

 

Great job dudes!

From one Herb and Vegetable and Flower and Bonzai Gardner,

Racoon

[Turtle]

This thread is Way Cool!

 

SuperDirt!

Its ironic that members named Soilwatcher and Charcoal are jumping in. :)

 

Turtle? where do you recommend purchasing some around our area?

 

Great job dudes!

From one Herb and Vegetable and Flower and Bonzai Gardner,

Racoon

 

Cool indeed!

I bought 2 bags of "Horticultural Charcoal" from Whitney Farms at the Fred Meyer garden center. Each bag is 2 dry quarts (2.2 litres) & cost about $4 US. It is rather large chunks in the 1/2" range.

Here is some info on building a parabolic trough solar oven for making your own charcoal (not activated charcoal).

 

 

http://hypography.com/forums/earth-science/1459-whats-growing-your-garden-horticultural-science-13.html

I found a description of a simple solar furnace for making charcoal & I think I may have a go at it on a small scale.

Here is the link & some quotes that prompted the new direction:

http://www.bidstrup.com/carbon.htm

[Racoon]

I bought 2 bags of "Horticultural Charcoal" from Whitney Farms at the Fred Meyer garden center. Each bag is 2 dry quarts (2.2 litres) & cost about $4 US. It is rather large chunks in the 1/2" range.

 

Do those bags of Whitney "Horticulture Charcoal" need to be put in an oven, or is it good to go after a bout with mortar and pestal?

[Turtle]

Do those bags of Whitney "Horticulture Charcoal" need to be put in an oven, or is it good to go after a bout with mortar and pestal?

 

No need for oven. From what I have gathered from these articles you don't want 'activated charcoal' for making these terra preta soils & you do want (need?) to crush it up. Some sources say you need 20% to 40% charcoal by volume to get the microbes churning & happy.

The solar oven is low temp (about 450deg F they said) & you shove in your garden waste instead of composting it. :) :)

[Turtle]

Went to hardware store & bought a 2 foot length of 4" sheet-metal pipe, a cap for same, & a can of high temp flat-blkack paint. I plan to make a template & 'ribs' of corrugated paper (cardboard) for the parabolic reflector, then line it with mylar covered posterboard for my trough reflector.

___Cost so far, $10 US. I have the mylar (survival blanket) & plenty of corrugated stock from moving boxes. I almost bought a thermometer, but I think I can use our cooking one. While I wrok on the reflector & after the paint dries on the tube, I have in mind to stuff the tube with debris & see what goes with it in the Sun sans reflector.

___Having too much fun!:) :)

[Racoon]

Went to hardware store & bought a 2 foot length of 4" sheet-metal pipe, a cap for same, & a can of high temp flat-blkack paint. I plan to make a template & 'ribs' of corrugated paper (cardboard) for the parabolic reflector, then line it with mylar covered posterboard for my trough reflector.

___Cost so far, $10 US. I have the mylar (survival blanket) & plenty of corrugated stock from moving boxes. I almost bought a thermometer, but I think I can use our cooking one. While I wrok on the reflector & after the paint dries on the tube, I have in mind to stuff the tube with debris & see what goes with it in the Sun sans reflector.

___Having too much fun!:) :)

 

Ok,

So you paint the metal pipe.

Wrap it in mylar (emergency blanket) - on the outside?

Then stuff the debris inside.

And let it bake...? How long does it take - to bake?

how hot does it need to get?

 

I should probably re-read the links, but asking you is easier...:) :)

[Turtle]

Ok,

So you paint the metal pipe.

Wrap it in mylar (emergency blanket) - on the outside?

Then stuff the debris inside.

And let it bake...? How long does it take - to bake?

how hot does it need to get?

 

I should probably re-read the links, but asking you is easier...:) :)

 

___No no! Do not wrap pipe in mylar! Pipe is supported at the focus of the parabolic trough reflector; the mylar is the relecting material. I will make a drawing as the links provide none.

___:)

[Racoon]

___No no! Do not wrap pipe in mylar! Pipe is supported at the focus of the parabolic trough reflector; the mylar is the relecting material. I will make a drawing as the links provide none.

___:cup:

 

That would be most helpful, Turtle-san.

I think I understand a little better now.

 

I was a little confused by the description.

Your help is much appreciated, when you can manage the time...

 

Muchas Gracias.

 

ps. I am glad you found the bearing you needed for the wagon! :)

[Turtle]

That would be most helpful, Turtle-san.

I think I understand a little better now.

 

I was a little confused by the description.

Your help is much appreciated, when you can manage the time...

 

Muchas Gracias.

 

Here's a link to a general description of a trough parabolic reflector; in our case the 'glass envelope' is replaced with the 'black-painted metal tube'.

http://www.industrialsolartech.com/abttrghs.htm

:cup:

[Michaelangelica]

No need for oven. From what I have gathered from these articles you don't want 'activated charcoal' for making these terra preta soils & you do want (need?) to crush it up. Some sources say you need 20% to 40% charcoal by volume to get the microbes churning & happy.

The solar oven is low temp (about 450deg F they said) & you shove in your garden waste instead of composting it. :) :ip:

 

BBQ charcoal seems cheaper than horticultural charcoal. The BBQ charcoal I purchased looked like it had been some sort of worked or turned timber. It had a hole in the middle and was hexagonal. It was certainly a lot cheaper that horticultural charcoal BUT how do I know if it is the right stuff? Charcoal doesn't say on the packet what temperature it has been produced at. From what I've read some of the plant resins need to be left in the charcoal for the bacteria to latch on to it

It was easy to pound the BBQ charcoal into a powder with a brick. I got into a rhythm a bit like native pounding of grains into flower.

 

One of the traditional ways of making charcoal is by coppicing

see

http://www.rbgkew.org.uk/gowild/wildscience/charcoal.html

"How is charcoal used today?

 

In Britain today, charcoal is used as fuel for domestic barbecues, in fireworks and in medicinal biscuits. As it can absorb gases and impurities, it is employed in chemical, water and vodka filtration. Approximately two thirds of the estimated 60,000 tonnes of charcoal sold in Britain every year are used in barbecues. Of this vast quantity only 3 per cent (1,800 tonnes) is produced in England. A large proportion of the remainder is derived from unsustainable harvesting in the tropical forests and mangrove swamps with the cheapest imports coming from South-east Asia. This is particularly disturbing when one estimate suggests that there is 800,000 tonnes of low value wood including over-mature coppice in the south-east of England alone. This wood is currently of little economic value but could be used for the production of high quality British hardwood charcoal.

How is charcoal produced?

 

Charcoal production is dependent on heating wood without enough air for complete combustion. Under these conditions, water is expelled from the wood and volatile substances such as tars and oils are released, leaving charcoal containing up to 90 per cent carbon. In most charcoal production processes, some of the wood in the kiln is burnt to produce the necessary heat. If thoroughly air-dried wood is used, ideally with a moisture content below 20 per cent, then 4 tonnes will yield 1 tonne of charcoal. This yield is halved if unseasoned timber is used since a higher proportion of the wood in the kiln has to be burnt to provide the required heat.

 

Many different kilns are used throughout the world. Some, known as earth kilns, utilise only materials from the woodland to seal them. At Wakehurst Place, a less labour-intensive portable steel kiln is moved around the woodlands to each new coppice block. Other initiatives in Britain could lead to huge static kilns to which timber growers take their coppiced wood.

Charcoal from Wakehurst Place

 

At Wakehurst Place up to 3 tonnes of BAR-B-KEW charcoal is made each year. Like other British hardwood charcoal, it has a high carbon content which makes it easy to light and quick to reach a high cooking temperature. These qualities make it a superior product to most imports and it provides an alternative to charcoal produced from endangered sources such as tropical rainforest and mangrove swamps"

 

This is a good site on UK copicing

http://www.englishcharcoal.co.uk/

 

"AD 43-410

 

By Roman times iron was being produced in large-scale processes. To fuel the considerable production, many thousands of acres of coppice were brought under management and invariably the iron works were situated close by. Such was the scale of production that slag was commonly used as a sub-base for new roads.

 

However, charcoal was not limited to use as a fuel. The wood tars produced were used for caulking ships and the lighter pyroligneous acid (which the Egyptians had used for embalming) may have had a use in the production of dyes. Charcoal posts were used for construction support in wet areas where ordinary timber would have quickly rotted whilst crushed charcoal had uses in the filtration and purification of liquids."

 

 

There is even a Yahoo coppicing group!

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/Coppicecraft/messages/1?viscount=100

 

Both these websites mention plant resins in the charcoal.

Is it important for these to be left in the charcoal?

Some of the Cornell Uni papers seem to think so

Am I fussing over nothing?

Perhaps I need to suck it and see.:)

 

The TV show I saw on coppicing years ago involved building a special bonfire. The bonfire was specially constructed so that it burnt slowly over a number of days. I haven't found how to construct this yet.I guess i won' be able to do it in suburbia anyhow. It does seem to be the way to go for farmers however.

I don't think my wife or the smoke alarm would appreciate me producing carbon in the oven :) (Not energy efficient anyway).

Let me know how you go with the home made solar furnace. I have lots of long hard "poles" off palm fronds. They are sort of bent so don't make good tomato stakes -but might make good charchol!

 

"Manufacturing Charcoal

Charcoal is made when wood is heated under conditions where there is insufficient air for complete combustion. In this process the water contained in the wood is first driven off before the wood begins to break down. A series of chemical reactions then follow which result in the release of volatile products. Charcoal – a solid black residue is left.

 

Manufacture of charcoal in the UK is now largely carried out in portable kilns. These kilns are circular steel drums of about eight feet diameter and a least four feet in height. There is a removable lid and a number of chimneys, which vent from the bottom of the kiln. The timber is carefully placed in the kiln leaving a central void which forms the starting point for the fire. When the kiln is full a fire is lit in the central void and allowed to establish before the lid is loosely placed on the top of the kiln.

 

Over the next couple of hours the amount of air to the kiln is carefully controlled before the lid is sealed using earth from nearby. The kiln then vents from ground level and burns for around 24 hours providing perfect conditions for the production of charcoal. All vents are then sealed and the combustion process dies down. The kiln is then allowed to cool before it is safe to remove the charcoal. The cooling process can take several days. The image below illustrates the early stages of the combustion process before the lid is properly sealed.

 

The ring kiln is a relatively modern replacement for "the traditional earth burn."

 

The traditional earth burn is what I want to know about!

 

O well another day, another hunt for cheap charcoal.:)

 

I do have a lovely bacterial tea brewing made of yeast, sugar, milk, plant materials, an old bottle of Spiralina (seaweed), kitchen scraps and a spoonful of liquid fertiliser. It is bubbling away nicely. (I do hope my wife doesn't find it. :cup:

(I have to smuggle in chook poo as she says it "stinks":)

[Turtle]

The traditional earth burn is what I want to know about!

 

O well another day, another hunt for cheap charcoal.:)

 

I do have a lovely bacterial tea brewing made of yeast, sugar, milk, plant materials, an old bottle of Spiralina (seaweed), kitchen scraps and a spoonful of liquid fertiliser. It is bubbling away nicely. (I do hope my wife doesn't find it. :cup:

(I have to smuggle in chook poo as she says it "stinks":)

 

___The traditional 'earth burn' is inefficient; go for the solar oven I have under investigation. (photos coming soon!:) )

___I have watched a PBS (Public Broadcasting Service US) show on a fella who mixes up custom fertilizer and/or insecticide using dish soap, household ammonia, soda pop, beer, and/or tobacco 'stew' in a garden-hose sprayer. Soda provides sugars, beer provides enzymes, ammonio provides nitogen. dish soap promotes even spreading, & insects don't like tobacco.:) :ip:

[Michaelangelica]

___The traditional 'earth burn' is inefficient; go for the solar oven I have under investigation. (photos coming soon!:) )

:

 

When I say 'earth burn' i don't mean "earth burn" :cup:

 

See the historic photos at:http://www.englishcharcoal.co.uk/

Historic charcoal burning photos

An earth kiln in the course of construction in the Forest of Dean and before being sealed with turf.

Photo by kind permission of Forest Authority

earth kiln

Inspecting an earth kiln after firing.

Photo by kind permission of Forest Authority

earth_kiln_2

[Turtle]

When I say 'earth burn' i don't mean "earth burn" :cup:

 

See the historic photos at:http://www.englishcharcoal.co.uk/

Historic charcoal burning photos

An earth kiln in the course of construction in the Forest of Dean and before being sealed with turf.

Photo by kind permission of Forest Authority

earth kiln

Inspecting an earth kiln after firing.

Photo by kind permission of Forest Authority

earth_kiln_2

 

:ip: I understand; however, the burning of material releases CO2, wheras a solar oven burns nothing for its heat. The energy required to make charcoal is a potnetial polluting problem in itself. More to come on my experiment.:)

[Michaelangelica]

I'll take your word for it. It sound like a great way to go. I wish I was there helping you construct. Can you take photos as you go; rather than just of the finished solar 'still'? please?

 

Apparently we are still in front no mater which way we go:

"unlike all known biomass fuels, corn or rapeseed included, which are, at best, carbon neutral. ‘Other biomass doesn’t create a carbon sink, it just offsets other fossil fuel energy,’ Lehmann told the American Association for the Advancement of Science. Even after taking into account transport and other carbon positive processes involved in bio-char manufacture and use, it is still carbon negative, said Lehmann."

http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/News/2006/February/20020601.asp

 

There are a few web sites under "bio-char"

This is a quote from one. I have no chemistry

Would a chemist please explain to me in words of one syllable what it means please?

"Madari is trying to understand what makes terra preta so fertile and different from other soil. She says the organic matter in terra preta is stable because it has a core of several aromatic rings. The soil can store nutrients thanks to reactive carboxylic groups on the surface of that core."

http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/News/2006/February/20020601.asp

Tar:)

 

This is also a good site on bio-char if you really explore it.

If you live near Cornell Uni they are running courses on bio-char, fertility etc

http://www.css.cornell.edu/faculty/lehmann/biochar/Biochar_home.htm

:cup:

[Racoon]

___I have watched a PBS (Public Broadcasting Service US) show on a fella who mixes up custom fertilizer and/or insecticide using dish soap, household ammonia, soda pop, beer, and/or tobacco 'stew' in a garden-hose sprayer. Soda provides sugars, beer provides enzymes, ammonio provides nitogen. dish soap promotes even spreading, & insects don't like tobacco.:) :ip:

 

Jerry Baker; I believe is his name-o...

I love that guy.

I wish I had his books.

 

I think you forgot the cup of Urine, preferably from a "drunk guy" as an ingredient.

Seriously. (he made the joke as he said it :cup: )

There are several formulas, depending on your needs.

 

Dirt is Great!