Terra Preta - The parent thread which started it all

[Turtle]

As far as where I live, I'm in the upper right hand corner of the US, about 75 miles north of Seattle, Washington, in a rural area just below the Canadian border. My wife and I own six acres of land in the hills where we play at organic gardening, amongst other things.

 

"Well, ain't that something!" Long pause. "Say, you got any more of that home-made raspberry wine in the fridge?"

 

"Sure Auggie, help yourself."

 

Around here, everyone's used to my crazy notions. I'm known as the mad scientist/songwriter/farmer/computer geek with the loud electric guitar and the finest raspberry wine ever made. I owe it all to alpaca poop, I tell them.

 

You gotta love the Pacific Northwest for the friendly people. (Even a recluse notices:hihi: ) I used to go up to an annual kite retreat at Fort Warden years ago. I have to ask if you were looking South or standing on your head gost when you said 'upper right hand corner of US"?

On the charcoal, are you grinding it up too? How fine & by what means?

Gettin' Pestle Elbow,

Turtle

[gost]

Oooops! Too much raspberry wine, plus I think I'm geographically dyslexic. Upper LEFT. On the upper LEFT coast of the US. Come to think of it, wouldn't it be on Michael's RIGHT, since he lives south of the equator, and therefore standing on HIS head?

 

As far as grinding the charcoal, I used the rock that you see in the upper part of the pic I posted above. The stuff powderized very easily and you could pretty much do it with your fingers if you didn't mind the mess. The flower pot took a little more work.

[Michaelangelica]

Oooops! Too much raspberry wine, plus I think I'm geographically dyslexic. Upper LEFT. On the upper LEFT coast of the US. Come to think of it, wouldn't it be on Michael's RIGHT, since he lives south of the equator, and therefore standing on HIS head?

 

Far too much raspberry wine:)

My wife would kill for Raspberry wine.

Many years ago travelling in Italy, with children aged 2 and 7, she saw raspberries everywhere. (We were staying in a little hotel near Venice)

She tried to order some. Could not find the word.

Her schoolgirl Latin desserted her (pardon the pun):eek:

Caesar apparently never crossed swords with a raspberry.

The closest we got was "Cassis"

She (wife) was not impressed but the kids loved it.

It was some time before we worked out why we had such silly,merry, hyperactive kids after dinner every night.:)

 

A friend, a Qantas engineer of long standing, was sent to Seattle, for a year, to watch Boeing build Qantas a plane.

His wife and he said that of all the places in the world they had visited, ( a lot working for Qantas), they would happily live in Seattle. Seattle sounds great (They were picked as Aussies immediately as they tried to put their washing out in the sun to dry.):)

Now, for an Australian, that is shockingly high praise. Contrary to the belief of US customs, not everyone is trying to sneak over to the States to live. (Which is the way they made us feel when we visited). Apart from minor aberrations like "Crocodile Dundee" we have been trying to keep Australia a secret.

Which when I travelled was easy.

Americans get very confused by concepts like Geography.( eg your last post-the prosecution rests):)

"You speak lovely English for an Austrian"

 

"What do you do in Australia"

"O, we run a nursery"

"What made you start a nursery in Australia?

"Um . . well . . um. . we were born there!".

"O, I didn't know people were actually born there.!!??

"ummmmm . . . . . . . . .. . . .":confused:

 

Give me a stack of bibles I swear both encounters were true.

The first one several times. The last is etched in memory.

 

I LOL at your encounter with your neighbour.

The question is how do you convince him you are not a nut case?

Pehaps you need to grow bigger raspberries or whatever.

--

Michael :)

[Michaelangelica]

I looked up cation exchange capacity on the web and found all the uni notes incomprehensible. how does anyone pass? I guess they study chemistry at school for a start.

I also guess, if I understood this, I might figure out why some of my soil has a Ph of 9

 

This was one of the better ones from Washington State Uni

http://soils.tfrec.wsu.edu/webnutritiongood/soilprops/04CEC.htm

 

 

Cation-Ex

change Capacity (CEC)

 

Cation-exchange capacity is defined as the degree to which a soil can adsorb and exchange cations.

 

Cation-a positively charged ion (NH4 +, K+, Ca2+, Fe2+, etc...)

 

Anion-a negatively charged ion (NO3 -, PO42-, SO42-, etc...)

 

Soil particles and organic matter have negative charges on their surfaces. Mineral cations can adsorb to the negative surface charges or the inorganic and organic soil particles. Once adsorbed, these minerals are not easily lost when the soil is leached by water and they also provide a nutrient reserve available to plant roots.

 

These minerals can then be replaced or exchanged by other cations (i.e., cation exchange)

 

Top of page

 

CEC is highly dependent upon soil texture and organic matter content. In general, the more clay and organic matter in the soil, the higher the CEC. Clay content is important because these small particles have a high ration of surface area to volume. Different types of clays also vary in CEC. Smectites have the highest CEC (80-100 millequivalents 100 g-1), followed by illites (15-40 meq 100 g-1) and kaolinites (3-15 meq 100 g-1).

 

Examples of CEC values for different soil textures are as follows:

 

Soil texture

 

CEC (meq/100g soi)

Sands (light-colored) 3-5

Sands (dark-colored) 10-20

Loams 10-15

Silt loams 15-25

Clay and clay loams 20-50

Organic soils 50-100

 

In general, the CEC of most soils increases with an increase in soil pH.

?????????????

 

and this academic site

 

http://www.microsoil.com/CEC.htm

The disadvantages of a low CEC obviously include the limited availability of mineral nutrients to the plant and the soil's inefficient ability to hold applied nutrients. Plants can exhaust a fair amount of energy (that might otherwise have been used for growth, flowering, seed production or root development) scrounging the soil for mineral nutrients. Soluble mineral salts (e.g. Potassium sulfate) applied in large doses to soil with a low CEC cannot be held efficiently because the cation warehouse or reservoir is too small.

and another

The CEC is the abbreviation for the cation exchange capacity of the soil.

Any element with a positive charge is called a cation and refers to the the basic cations, calcium (Ca+2), magnesium (Mg+2), potassium (K+1) and s odium (Na+1) and the acidic cations, hydrogen (H+1) and aluminum (Al+3).

 

These are from a huge variety of discussion groups all had a slightly differt take on cation exchange capacity. I found them interesting

I hope you do too.

 

In its simplest form, cation exchange capacity relates to that mineral's ability

to retain nutrients to be absorbed by plant roots. I'm sure a chemist could

provide a much more meaningful definition, but it has to do with positive and

negatively charged ions and their relationship with soil particles.

Pam - gardengal

 

Topic in rec.gardens

 

> Cation Exchange Capacity

> The ability of a soil or growth medium to retain nutrients against leaching

> by irrigation water or rainfall is estimated by measuring the cation exchange

> capacity (CEC). Most adsorption sites on growth medium particles are

> negatively charged and attract positively-charged ions. Many nutrients required by

> plants are positively charged and thus are attracted by these

> negatively-charged sites. Sands and other low-surface area materials have low cation exchange

> capacities while organic components have a greater ability to retain

> cations. Pine bark has a cation exchange capacity in the range of 10 to 13

> milliequivalents per 100 cubic centimeters while a CEC of approximately 1 is common

> for builders' sand.

from rec bonsi--

 

From:

David Hershey - view profile

Date:

Sat, Jan 17 2004 10:38 am

Email:

d [email protected] (David Hershey)

Groups:

sci.bio.botany

 

I would not apply those exact terms to roots. Instead, I would say

roots can excrete acids or bases depending on the environment. Also,

roots have a cation exchange capacity.

 

Tree roots should be able to excrete acid (hydrogen ions) or bases

(hydroxyl ions or carbonate ions) depending on the ionic composition

of the soil solution.

 

If most or all of the nitrogen is present as nitrate (NO3-), then

roots excrete hydroxyl ions (OH-). With all nitrogen as NO3-, roots

generally take up more anions than cations so must excrete some OH- to

maintain cation-anion balance. The hydroxyl ions may cause the soil

solution pH to rise. Roots have to have a net cation uptake about

equal to the net anion uptake on a charge basis in order to maintain

electroneutrality.

 

If a significant amount of nitrogen is present as ammonium (NH4+),

then most roots excrete hydrogen ions (H+) . With a significant amount

of NH4+, roots generally take up more cations than anions so must

excrete some H+ to maintain cation-anion balance. The hydrogen ions

cause the soil solution pH to decline.

 

In some species of iron-efficient plants, the roots excrete large

quantities of H+ even with all nitrogen as nitrate. This occurs when

the plants become iron deficient. The decline in rootzone pH greatly

increase iron availability. The shrub, Euonymus japonica, responds to

iron deficiency in this way (Hershey and Paul 1983).

 

In common philodendron (Philodendron scandens ssp. oxycardium), the

roots excrete H+ and the soil solution pH declines even when all

nitrogen is provided as nitrate. This pH decline occurs even when the

plant is not iron deficient (Mattis and Hershey 1992).

 

The above phenomena have not been studied for too many species.

 

Roots have a cation exchange capacity because of negative charges on

their cellulose surfaces which are satisfied by cations, such as

calcium (Ca++). Roots have an absolute requirement for calcium and

boron in the external solution to maintain membrane integrity.

from sci bio botany

From:

Bill Robinson - view profile

Date:

Fri, Feb 5 1999 12:00 am

Email:

"Bill Robinson" <rose [email protected]>

Groups:

rec.gardens.ecosystems

 

Nicole wrote:

>Does any one know what buffer capacity is exactly? How

>does it happen? Why? What effect does it have on plants?

>What purpose does it serve? Does it occur in/to all plant

>forms; i.e., shrubs, perennials, etc.? Can you induce it to

>happen?

 

Righteously good questions! This ought to take about 10

pages and be its own sub-section in the FAQ.

 

"The Nature and Properties of Soils" by Nyle C. Brady and

Ray R. Weil is a first rate reference and it has a fair amount

of information on soil buffering capacity and the role it plays

in the soil environment. They define buffering capacity as,

"The ability of a soil to resist changes in pH. Commonly

determined by presence of clay, humus, and other colloidal

materials."

 

"Cation Exchange Capacity" is kind of like that but not really.

Brady and Weil define " Cation Exchange Capacity" as, "The

sum total of exchangeable cations that a soil can absorb.

Sometimes called 'total-exchange capacity', "base exchange

capacity' or 'cation adsorption capacity'. Expressed in

centimoles of charge per kilogram of soil."

 

Soils with a high soil buffering capacity will also have a high

cation exchange capacity.

 

Soil pH shapes a lot of the chemical and bio-chemical reactions

that occur in the soil. It all goes back, at bottom line, to the very

complex, inter-reactions involving the soil environment, the soil

organisms, and the living plant roots. Soils that are low in colloidal

material, which on a practical basis means organic, usually don't

perform as well as soils with a high colloidal content but there is

more to it than simple cations. It also involves biology.

 

Rodale's made the statement many years ago that the way to feed

the garden was to feed the soil organisms. He was right. The issue

is the best way to feed the soil organisms. A soil rich in organic is

good food for the soil organisms and the organic helps to stabilize

the pH which helps in the nutrition in a whole number of ways.

from rec.gardens ecosystems

 

and from

 

 

Craig Bingman

Topic in sci.aquaria

 

Do I understand you correctly in that you claim that GAC has a lower

cation exchange capacity than laterite? My interest in using organic matter

to bind ions was sparked by reading 'The Soil-Plant System in Relation to

Inorganic Nutrition' by M. Fried and H. Broeshart from which I quote "the

organic matter also provides a reactive surface which both adsorbs cations

in exchangeable positions formed by COOH and OH groups and also may complex such ions as Fe, Mn, and even Ca and Mg. This adsorbtion and complexing of nutrients can be appreciable --

The cation exchange capacity of humic acid approximates 250 to 400 meq/100g, which is threefold that of the montmorillonite-type clays and 30- to 100-fold that of the kaolinite type."

 

This indicates that organic matter has a large potential to supply roots

with nutrients. My thoughts about filter carbon were with hopes to take

advantage of the high exchange capacity while eliminating the anaerobic muck

and H2S gas and water over-enrichment that usually results from letting organic matter decay in the substrate.

 

Upon rereading it seems that they're really making a point about humic acid more than anything, which is presumably not available in filter carbon and probably only available where there is decay.

 

This agrees with the old advice about adding peat to the substrate.

However, the hope might still be that the COOH and OH groups still exist

in GAC, if it's made from living plants. I have no idea and I hope that

someone else knows if filter carbon is the complicated end result of

processing plants (e.g. coconut) or if it's nearly purely graphite which

utilizes the "hydrophobic" effect to trap organics. (If this is the case then

why do we worry about carbon removing trace elements which exist in ionic form

from the water?)

Here are two possible drawbacks to using carbon. First, it was mentioned

on another recent thread about carbon that some companies process it with

phosphates: enough said. Second, I ran across an excellent review article

in the Journal of Aquatic Plant Management (vol 24, Jan 1986) which cites

research concluding that too much organic carbon in the substrate limits the

the growth of submerged aquatics (Aquat. Bot. 12:157-172, J. Ecol. 71:161-175).

However this was presumed due to high concentrations of organic acids and it

was also noted that "Low level accumulation of organic matter in such sediments

can apparently stimulate growth due presumably to improved ionic exchange

properties and increased sediment nutrient content." So it seems like one

wants to either avoid or use sparsely any organic matter which might decay.

Water movement through the substrate and water changes might circumvent this,

but this danger was the idea behind the filter carbon.

 

2) So clays may be the way to go. I do have a slight aversion to laterite's

high price in aquarium circles, but what I really dislike about it is that

we (most aquarists, myself included) know little about why it is so much

better at ion exchange than other clay minerals. Yes, I read the thread from

long ago between Jeff Frank, Oleg, George and others on how laterite is a

tropical clay which undergoes weathering over a geologic time scale and has

most Ca and Mg removed and has charged sites which attract nutrient ions, etc.,

etc.. But these are still vague descriptions which fail to tell us why is

is different from other minerals or some stuff I might dig up in my backyard.

Once I know how it works and why it's unique I'll shut up and buy it :).

Here are some more interesting quotes from Fried and Broeshart's book on

the subject of clays: "The secondary minerals [those not present in the

magma] are primarily responsible for many of the phisicochemical properties

of soils that affect plant nutrition. The dominant reactive clay minerals,

including the kaolinites, montmorillonites, and illites, derive their

reactivity not only from their fineness of subdivision and broken exposed

crystal edges but also from isomorphous substitution in the lattice, resulting

in a net negative charge of the clay particle. It is this net negative charge

and the exposed crystal surface that result in the ionic adsorption of

cation, including nutrient cations. -- The dominant reactive clay minerals

found in soils are two-layer non-expanding types and three-layer expanding-

and nonexpanding-types. -- Within the lattice there are always substitutions

in the three layer minerals. -- These substitutions give rise to exchange

properties i.e., a net charge on the lattice resulting in the ability to

adsorb ions. Lattice substitutions are presumably not common in the two layer

type minerals, such as kaolinite, and most of the exchange properties of these

minerals are supposedly the result of the unbalanced structure at broken

edges. -- In many of the 3 layer minerals water can enter between the unit

layers, giving these minerals an expanded structure. -- The concentration of

M(solid) [a nutrient ion in the solid phase] reflects this difference in

capacity to adsorb exchangeable cations. Those soils in which the two layer

clay minerals dominate (e.g. lateritic type soils) typically contain relatively

small amounts of exchangeable cations and have a relatively small capacity to

hold them. Those in which the three layer clay minerals predominate

(e.g. chernozem soils) usually contain large amounts of exchangeable cations

and have a relatively large capacity to hold them." The double dashes above

mean that I left stuff out.

There is a able in the same section labelled "Cation Exchange Capacity

of Clay Minerals." The lowest listed exchange capacity listed is kaolinite

(3-15 meq/100g) which is a two-layer type which they seem to be indicating

is present in the lateritic type soils. The highest on the list is (drum

roll please...) vermiculite (100-150 meq/100g). You can buy vermiculite at

any nursury! This is just an idea but if it is as good as they make it sound

then I'd be willing to dry it out, pulverize it (for maximum surface area) and

see if it can't be made to sink so we can at least use it in the bottom

portion of the substrate. Comments?

 

3) Fried and Broeshart also talk about uncombined oxides: Oxides of Fe and

presumably Al exist as coatings on the clay particles. Much more is known of

the He oxides owing to the interest of the soil scientist in the nature of

the laterites." Then later "Al and Fe oxides and hydroxides will, depending

on external pH and salt concentration of the ambient soil solution,

disassociate H+ and OH- ions and can therefore adsorb cations and anions

at negative and positive charged spots. The oxide coatings -- provide a

reactive surface capable of retaining certain anions, chief among which

is Phosphate. It is also becoming apparent that the exchange properties of

soil are due to contibutions from oxide coatings." This seems to indicate

that the exchange properties of laterite are not due primarily to the crystal

structure but to a coating of Fe2O3 on it, which would account for its

supposed orange/brown color. This might be easily duplicated by adding an

iron enriching additive with little or no chelating agent to some of the

finer substrate particles, mixing with water, and allowing to dry in the

sun to make a good coating on the particles.

I'm sure any soil scientist could tell us if this is the key property

od laterite, so if you're out ther please post. I haven't seen this stuff

discussed in previous laterite threads. Also, it is frequently mentioned

that laterite adds a good dose of iron for the plants. If the above is true

then this notion is false since the oxide would be unavailable for uptake and

would function instead as a binding site.

 

There is more interesting stuff in this great book but you can look it up

yourself. I'm not a soil scientist and I found this and other good references

while doing a superficial search on trace element nutrition, so I imagine

there's a wealth of knowledge out there on clay composition and what minerals

work best for nutrition. I think these issues ought to be addressed before

I spend big bucks (on a student budget, not George's) for laterite additives.

Thanks for listening if you're still ther and keep the comments coming

because this subject needs more discussion than lighting or CO2, both of

which are well understood.

Jim Kelly

email jke [email protected]

 

Well I finally managed to covince my wife I needed some chook poo and horse poo from the local (300m away) farm. ( "No, not more, it smells!")

Us poor peasants have to use ordinary everday poo.:eek:

[Michaelangelica]

Another very good introductory article on Terra preta:-

 

http://www.philipcoppens.com/terrapreta.html

 

What we know + a slighly different perspective e.g.,

 

Philip Coppens

 

Since the latter half of the 20th century, two leading thoughts have come to the forefront of humanity: one is the possibility that we can destroy our planet – and whether our industrialised economy is killing the planet, the second is so-called “terraforming” other planets – making them inhabitable and suitable for human habitation.

Both “techniques” transform an existing ecosystem and reside in opposite camps – destruction and creation.

Though topical, and for many perhaps theoretical, it is not a purely modern issue, an outcome of Man’s conquest of space, or the science fiction generations that have grown up in the 20th century.

During that same century, it has become clear to science that people in the Amazon have created and used similar techniques – two millennia earlier.

 

and

 

Though some of the secrets of this soil have been discovered and will help in provide great help to many impoverished regions, some ingredients of Terra Preta remain unidentified – or at least difficult to reproduce.

In fact, one missing ingredient is how the soil appears to reproduce.

Science may not know the answer, but the Amazonian people themselves argue that as long as 20cm of the soil is left undisturbed, the bed will regenerate over a period of about twenty years.

A combination of bacteria and fungi are believed to be the transformative agents, but the agents themselves remain elusive from the scientific microscopes.

[Michaelangelica]

"We want ours to burn good and slow," said Young Billy.

"If he burns fast he leaves nowt but ash.

The slower the fire the better the charcoal".

Susan was watching carefully.

"Why doesn't it go out?" she asked.

"Got too good a hold," said Young Billy.

"Once he's got a good hold you can cover a fire up and the better you cover him the hotter he is and the slower he burns.

But if you let him have plenty of air there's no holding him."

Arthur Ransome, "Swallows & Amazons", 1930.

seen at:

http://www.personal.rdg.ac.uk/~scsharip/Charcoal.htm:)

[Michaelangelica]

Another short article.

This time they are trying to replicate Terra preta.

This is from an abstract of a paper presented at the World Congress of Soil Science on

Thursday, 13 July 2006. The full paper does not seem to be available

 

http://crops.confex.com/crops/wc2006/techprogram/P16274.HTM

 

Terra Preta de Índio (TPI)

 

The high levels of soil organic matter and black carbon strongly darken the color, change the structure, and the hydraulic properties of the soils.

The texture is lighter and the workability of TPI is easier, especially when TPI is wet.

Because of their easy workability and longer lasting fertility in relation to surrounding soils, local populations intensively cultivate these sites.

TPI seem to be a very resilient soil type that keeps their good soil physical qualities even when submitted to intensive soil management.

Frequent findings of charcoal and highly aromatic humic substances suggest that residues of incomplete combustion of organic material are important.

 

In Manaus, Brazil we are studying the effect of charcoal amendments to the dystrofic and acric soils in an attempt to recreate some soil qualities showed by the TPI.

[Michaelangelica]

A research article on the clays added to terra preta

Very detailed

You need to be a geologist and chemist to read it but very good.

 

It seems other rocks apart from pottery may have been added to the soil as well? (I am having trouble getting my head arround article-translated form Portugese!) What is cauixi and cariapé?

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0044-59672004000200004&script=sci_arttext

 

most of mineral grains were taken from fresh crystalline rocks and intentionally crushed and introduced into clay material as well as cauixi and cariapé.

 

The above described minerals and organic substances led to identify the following materials as raw materials for the ceramics:

 

1) clay material derived from weathering (saprolite/mottling zone) of fine crystalline and less frequent sedimentary rocks (indicated by clay-derived minerals and iron oxy-hydroxides, anatase and quartz );

 

2) fresh crystalline rocks crushed (feldspars, quartz and rock fragments);

 

3) organic materials (cauixi and burned cariapé).

 

 

The abundance of fresh feldspars, rocks fragments and roundless quartz indicate that coarse igneous rocks, e.g. granites, granodiorites, and even rhyolites and quartz of veins were used as temper, after crushing. It's possible that pre-historic Indians extracted the fresh rocks from the same place where they took the clayey saprolite.

 

To improve the plasticity of the raw material they introduce organic material like cauixi and cariapé, crushed quartz, or even old ceramic (waste) crushed, in an old process of recycling.

 

.

[Michaelangelica]

Famous last words??

 

CSIRO MEDIA RELEASE 97/58

3 April 1997

 

LEGACY OF A THOUSAND BUSHFIRES

 

Australia's soil is even poorer than was thought, says CSIRO Land and Water researcher Jan Skjemstad. Much of our small supply of carbon - an essential element in fertile soil - is in the form of useless charcoal, resulting from tens of thousands of years of bushfires.

 

"The charcoal is mostly carbon, but it is in a form which can't be used by plants or soil organisms," said Mr Skjemstad.

[erich]

Another finding that supports the need to develope these soils on a large scale:

 

New Scientist News - Fertilisers give the lungs of the planet bad breath

 

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19025575.200-fertilisers-give-the-lungs-of-the-planet-bad-breath.html

 

 

Erich

[Michaelangelica]

Another finding that supports the need to develope these soils on a large scale:

 

New Scientist News - Fertilisers give the lungs of the planet bad breath

 

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19025575.200-fertilisers-give-the-lungs-of-the-planet-bad-breath.html

 

 

Erich

Thanks Erich

Nitrogen fertiliser raised the carbon dioxide output by 22 per cent, and a mixture of the two by 14 per cent."

 

I wonder what is happening on the wheat belts of Australia, Canada and USA? Surely these would be the greatest users of NPK? I wonder if that produces CO2 too?

 

So far this year I figure I've used about 50K of carbon (charcoal) in my soil . I have mainly used this in pots, i haven't really started in the garden (looking for cheaper sources).

So can some mathematician tell me how I am going in the carbon sequestration stakes? and if there where more nuts like me. . .?

[Turtle]

So can some mathematician tell me how I am going in the carbon sequestration stakes? and if there where more nuts like me. . .?

Yes Micha. You have sequestered exactly 100 times as much charcoal in soil as I have.;)

Can't say as I notice any difference in my charcoal enriched tomatoes from the controls yet. I may just have to wait 'till harvest.;)

[Michaelangelica]

Yes Micha. You have sequestered exactly 100 times as much charcoal in soil as I have.;)

Can't say as I notice any difference in my charcoal enriched tomatoes from the controls yet. I may just have to wait 'till harvest.;)

 

Yes my experiments aren't showing much yet either.

If gardening teaches you anything, it is patience.

Perhaps we need to wait 100 years to see results:eek2:

 

I do have a tomato with a good crop forming (it is winter here).

This is the first time I have seen this happen (My habanero Chilli , is again, covered in fruit too.?)

This is because

1) I am a great Gardener

2) It is a hardy heritage variety

3) It is near the pool and we now live near a lake so climate is milder

4) The 'Global' is Warming and We Are All Going To Die!!

[erich]

A.M. Leonard, an east coast hortoculture supply house, amleo.com , has activated Charcoal, special order, product # 691450 , 40Lbs , $70

 

I believe, to have fast results, an M-Roots type fungus inoculent and local compost would get this super community of wee beasties populated into their proper Soil horizon Carbon Condos.

 

Erich

[Michaelangelica]

Not my East coast. But I have found someone who has promised me hardwood charcoal in tiny pieces.He makes it himself. It's been a bit wet lately so I haven't heard from him & don't know costs icluding freight yet.

Some nice condo pictures here

http://www.edinformatics.com/math_science/carbon.htm

I don't know how to paste them here

The fullerene is my choice if I were more of a bacteia/bug whatever

 

Same site this was an interseting note

A new (fifth) allotrope of carbon was recently found. It is a spongy solid that is extremely lightweight and, unusually, attracted to magnets. The inventors of this new form of carbon -- a magnetic carbon nanofoam-- say it could may someday find medical applications (see review article from Nature)

 

This is interesting too. Especially in light of the global warming debate

http://www.sdearthtimes.com/et0998/et0998s8.html

 

Another important part of the study was an estimate of carbon content in bacteria. Carbon, of course, is a crucial element in numerous natural processes, so knowing the amount of it could contribute substantially to knowledge of carbon cycles.

Scientists assume that carbon in the bacteria that live in soil and subsurface takes up about one-half of their dry weight.

The team thus found that the total amount of bacterial carbon in the soil and subsurface to be yet another staggering number, 5 X 10**17 g or the weight of the United Kingdom.

 

Rather surprisingly, the group at Georgia found that the total carbon of bacteria is nearly equal to the total carbon found in plants.

[erich]

Hi All:

 

Maybe we will get some traction from Rifkin's think tank on promoting Terra Preta soils at scale:

 

Erich

 

-----------------

Forwarded Message:

Subj: RE: Terra Preta Soils: A solution to Numerous Problems

Date: 7/5/2006 1:13:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time

From: dhjohnston at foet.org

To: Shengar at aol.com

 

Dear Erich,

 

Mr. Rifkin is out of the office today. I have sent some of your materials to our research team and will look into them further. I will be sure that Mr. Rifkin sees your message and the supporting attachments. Thank you for your message.

 

Kind regards,

Drew

 

 

Andrew H. Johnston

 

Chief of Staff

 

Foundation on Economic Trends

 

 

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From: Shengar at aol.com [mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 4:20 PM

To: jrifkin at foet.org; [email protected]

Subject: Terra Preta Soils: A solution to Numerous Problems

 

 

 

Dear Mr. Rifkin:

 

After seeing your article on marker-assisted selection (MAS):

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/03/AR2006070300922.html

 

I felt you may be interested in this MUCH larger systemic and holistic approach to sustainable agricultural development.

 

MAS could be the key to the large scale development of Terra Preta agriculture.

 

I thought, I first read about these soils in " Botany of Desire " by Michael Pollen, or Dr. Jared Diamond's "Guns Germs &Steel" but I could not find reference to them. Wherever, I did not realize their potential.

 

'Terra Preta' soils I feel has great possibilities to revolutionize sustainable agriculture into a major CO2 sequestration strategy. There is an ecology going on in these soils that is not completely understood, and if replicated and applied at scale would have multiple benefits for farmers and environmentalist. Basically we could have Bio-fuels and non oil dependent soil fertility too.

 

Here's the Cornell page for an over view:

 

http://www.css.cornell.edu/faculty/lehmann/biochar/Biochar_home.htm

 

 

This Science Forum thread on thes soil contains further links:

 

http://hypography.com/forums/earth-science/3451-terra-preta-9.html

 

 

The Georgia Inst. of Technology page:

 

http://www.energy.gatech.edu/presentations/dday.pdf

 

As you will see the Japanese work with these soils is impressive, Especially with trees.

 

 

I've sent it to the researchers at M-Roots, who make Mycorisal fungus inoculations for acceleration of the reestablishment of the symbiotic fungal / root relationship. Here's the M-Roots site: http://www.rootsinc.com/

 

I also sent it to Dr. Jared Diamond, if he replies, I will probably have an orgasm!

 

 

If pre Columbian Indians could produce these soils up to 6 feet deep over 20% of the Amazon basin it seems that our energy and agricultural industries could also product them at scale.

 

Harnessing the work of this vast number of microbes and fungi changes the whole equation of EROEI for food and Bio fuels. I see this as the only sustainable agricultural strategy if we no longer have cheap oil for fertilizer.

 

I believe, to have fast results, an M-Roots type fungus inoculent and local compost would get this super community of wee beasties populated into their proper Soil horizon Carbon Condos.

 

Regards, Erich

 

Erich J. Knight

[Michaelangelica]

Wow!

lets wait and see!

The snowball is roling down the hill

 

My experiments are doing poorly but I have noticed a definate better water holding capacity in Potting Mixes with added charcoal.

 

I will post some pics of experiments and progress in spring

 

 

We are stardust, we are golden, we are billion year old carbon, and we've got to get ourselves back to the garden. - Joni Mitchell