Religion vs. Religion

[Southtown]

I know that, but since its an allegory, the question is what are those viewpoints mapped onto?

Haha good point. I have no idea.

 

I agree! Everyone *does* interpret this and buy into that viewpoint no matter how much they say "that's not for us to decide"...

 

Trying not to admit that I know what Shinola is, :cheer:

Buffy

I said earlier that the distinction lies between seeking answers and imposing them. Am I looking for the truth or am I spreading it? The more I know the less I learn. And I honestly believe that two persuasions can discuss matters peacefully... unless one feels like they're responsible to spread the message.

[rising crescent]

What is used as your touchstone of accuracy... your parents? human institutions? the complete Bible? Is what God says in it your guide? How much of 'your time' do you think is worth spending on worship? Is it worth dying for?

 

How would you reconcile this group?

mine?

of course by my own studying with knowledges through my life experiences.

 

I am a moslem.

 

I have fight with my country peoples in Kaskus - The Largest Indonesian Community

 

they are pretty tough, but lately dont make me satisfied with what I am looking for.

 

I am found myself I am frowing with knowledge, even it just a drop by drop with one single day.

 

I want to discuss what I have got.

 

but I am afraid western people will see me cannot understandable, because my languange is intuitive, not mechanical rational way of thinking.

 

because that mechanic stuff will never reach "lighT' thinking dimension

[Pyrotex]

I hope you don't regret it bud, honestly.

Of course, I regret it. I was wrong. The part I do not regret is that I was smart enough to eventually prove (from the bible and from science) that I was wrong. I gave up trying to tilt at windmills (using the bible to disprove science) and started learning about the real world. I consider that one my life's real accomplishments.

[palmtreepathos]

I have examined many different faiths, though not all and I have never seen 2 systems with a viewpoint that is "equally "supportable" but I thought the illustration showed the "muddled moral or karmic or happiness index" pretty well...:hihi:

 

Most religion is an illusion or counterfeit. Each person in the illustration had a "true" and "satisfying" viewpoint... their own! They all thought they were on the right path to a secure future, until the end. One person thinks he has it all, quite confident never really examines the "goods", the second truly thinks he needs no one to help him except where convenient. But the third one that took pains to verify the source of the income and the surety of the repository was saved in the end.

 

It would seem from the punch line that there's only one of the three with a "true" and "satisfying" viewpoint, which--like most religious teaching--makes it obvious which is the "right" path.

 

What if there IS only one right path? And the one who sends out search parties to save each one a hero?

 

In legal cases people go to all lengths to clear their good name but in the world court people judge the true God by hearsay and lies. He has witnesses to His "good name" though. Jesus used Jehovah's name, he made it manifest to his disciples(John 17:6, 26) and the book of Acts repeats a prophecy about a people called by God's name(Acts 15:13,17)... If you willingly use a Bible stripped of the most important name most of the 6000+ times it was used your research might be considered flawed.

Hear... the legal case of Jehovah.... YOU foundations of [the] earth; for Jehovah has a legal case with his people... Micah 6:2

 

The End of False Religion Is Near! - Jehovah's Witnesses Official Web Site

[Buffy]

Each person in the illustration had a "true" and "satisfying" viewpoint... their own!

 

What if there IS only one right path?

So how do you feel about all those people who are not on your path? Pity them? Smugly disdain their stupidity? Feel compelled to go to any lengths to convert them? Denounce them as promoters of Satan, False Gods or the Anti-Christ?

 

Even if you claim that its "not your role to judge," do you feel that your proclamation that your path is the only true one has no negative affects on others?

 

Why do you think its necessary that there even be a "true path," as opposed to the "false ones?"

 

Same reason milk has to curdle, everything's got a shelf life. Except angels. And Velveeta cheese... :hihi:

Buffy

[palmtreepathos]

So how do you feel about all those people who are not on your path? Pity them?

 

For those innocently being decieved "anguish" comes to mind. For those organizations that purposely say only things that will keep people coming and filling the coffers, it is a relief to think of Justice being done to them. For the most part the "great" religions have lost their hold on people, but the new comers (mega churches with socials programs like little cities of safety or tiny groups of emotional havens) are jumping in to sweep up. There is a immense work earthwide to educate individuals of a better way.

 

Smugly disdain their stupidity?

 

"There but for the grace of God go I" is my feeling. Actually there is a huge emotional vortex that draws even believers of truth to quit the monumental fight and join their families. Often you lose them(bad feelings and lack of shared reality) when you chose this way. (Matthew 10:34)"...not peace, but a sword... "(Luke 21:16-19)".....By endurance on your part you will acquire your souls."

 

Feel compelled to go to any lengths to convert them?

 

No, not any lengths but never give up. I resented the pushy judgemental religionists in my family and work hard not to be like them. I prefer a gentle chipping action, slip in a scripture here and there, that does the work, if they want it, I am nothing in the scheme of things.

 

Denounce them as promoters of Satan, False Gods or the Anti-Christ?

 

Not the individuals no. But organizations and the spirit backers are culpable.(Ephesians 6:12,13)

 

Even if you claim that its "not your role to judge," do you feel that your proclamation that your path is the only true one has no negative affects on others?

 

No one likes comparisons especially the "I am up here and you are down there" types. And familial game playing can be quite painful if you let it. But Jehovah is not a cosmic Santa Claus obliged to make everyone feel "warm and fuzzy", his Word indicates that most people "weep and gnash their teeth" at his requirements. In that case there are lots of churches that act like "the opium of the people" and they can find temporary solace there. An example that I have seen is that even a necessary surgery is not without its pain, saving the life is worth a bit of suffering, and Truth is worth suffering for. (Hebrews 12:11)"True, no discipline seems for the present to be joyous, but grievous; yet afterward to those who have been trained by it it yields peaceable fruit, namely, righteousness."

 

Why do you think its necessary that there even be a "true path," as opposed to the "false ones?"

 

You can rail against gravity but it is still there. God's Word is like sunshine, doing it's work, affecting us all and making life possible. Some are followed by clouds and maybe don't see it but that doesn't mean it isn't there. Is it particles or waves? Whether you understand it or not it is still working...

 

I am unsubscribing after this post as my spring activities are getting pretty demanding. thx to MANY rainy days recently I have had time to post, Also, it is just freaky wierd having the freedom to edit everything you say, I can't say that I enjoy the process, it is quite unreal. I do this in my day to day work as well and frequently wish I could do a second take on words, it keeps you humble. There is a link on my profile that speaks much better than I on the subjects we have touched on. And it does so in MANY languages... :rolleyes:

[Pyrotex]

All very fine, except for one thing.

ALL the paths are illusions.

ALL are equally false.

And ALL for the same reasons.

ALL provide the illusion of being the ONE and TRUE path.

ALL are equally based on this "knowing" that you are on the RIGHT path.

ALL are equally rationalized from within.

ALL are equally obvious from without.

ALL demand belief in the perfection of one's belief.

ALL demand belief in the imperfection of everyone else's belief.

ALL require the demonization of the non-believers.

ALL preach absurdities.

ALL eventually lead to atrocities.

ALL feed on their own self-righteousness.

ALL are equally products of self-absorbtion.

ALL are equally products of self-glorification.

ALL are equally self-delusion.

 

*I* got a life. You can too. :rolleyes: :) ;)

[Buffy]

For those innocently being decieved "anguish" comes to mind.

 

Actually there is a huge emotional vortex that draws even believers of truth to quit the monumental fight and join their families.

 

I resented the pushy judgemental religionists in my family and work hard not to be like them. I prefer a gentle chipping action, slip in a scripture here and there, that does the work, if they want it, I am nothing in the scheme of things.

I praise you for personally being so ecumenical, but although the questions were directed at you, the issue is how strong beliefs negatively affect others. While you've at least tipped the cap to those "corporate" religions that use demonizing as an irreligious method of gaining members (and of course money!), its of course not possible to lay the blame completely at their feet.

 

Individuals do have an impact. Where you "resented the pushy judgmental religionists in [your] family," those same words and actions can be spiteful and painful, even when they are "loving" and "in the family."

 

There's a very interesting new TV show on here in the States called "Saving Grace" with Holly Hunter, who plays a classical "sinner" who's being saved by an angel who doesn't look or act like one. It is funny to see the reactions of people to this show, because while it is seeming to promote religious beliefs, it has a core heretical notion: at one point the angel Earl, says "aw He don't care what church or synagogue or mosque you go to" which is something that is not even compatible with "free thinking" religionists who reject organized religions and seek the truth through their own interpretation of scripture.

 

So the question becomes: why is it so hard to support this kind of ecumenicism?

 

Your responses here have been filled with the "there is a one true path" that is common to most religions (and thus I don't blame you for promoting that position), but it seems so hard for people to "get along" between religions in spite of the camraderie that can be seen when turning all such questions to refer to the fight against atheists (that's you Pyro!).

 

I just wonder why people ignore the question, try to change the subject into a war on atheism and pretend there's so much ecumenicism when except for some much put upon religions like Unitarians, Lutherans and Reform Jews, there's practically none. This is the real purpose behind this thread.

 

Even within your copacetic attitude though, you have to think about the issue that your fall back defense is based on the notion that belief is a challenge, and of others do not like what your God says then its just their fault for having the "wrong" belief. That ultimately is a very hostile attitude and whether its consciously intended or not will be taken that way by others.

 

Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it, :eek:

Buffy

[rising crescent]

Most religion is an illusion or counterfeit. Each person in the illustration had a "true" and "satisfying" viewpoint... their own! They all thought they were on the right path to a secure future, until the end. One person thinks he has it all, quite confident never really examines the "goods", the second truly thinks he needs no one to help him except where convenient. But the third one that took pains to verify the source of the income and the surety of the repository was saved in the end.

Wrong!

Religion or Holy Book is suppose as Knowledge for Thinking,Acting,and Spirituality.

It is SOLUTION for everything. All who seek other than it MUST BE LOST in wrong path.

 

It is Core,Internal Factor about Awareness for human, is like atom`s Core in atom system, to neglect more it to destroy themself, like physcian who reject nuclear physicist

[InfiniteNow]

Wrong!

Religion or Holy Book is suppose as Knowledge for Thinking,Acting,and Spirituality.

It is SOLUTION for everything. All who seek other than it MUST BE LOST in wrong path.

 

So, it sounds like you have a problem with progress...

 

 

http://hypography.com/forums/philosophy-humanities/14108-religion-harmful-society-12.html#post209851

 

1) progress involves change define: progress - Google Search

2) authoritative texts do not change

3) if one awards ultimate authority to that which doesn't change, any change that threatens that authority, for example debunking of flood myths, must be rejected on the grounds of insufficient authority. By definition, scriptural religions are antagonistic to progress.

[rising crescent]

So, it sounds like you have a problem with progress...

what do you want to say?

[InfiniteNow]

what do you want to say?

 

To be honest, if I truly allowed myself to be sincere and uncensored in my approach to you, I would come across as very rude and would likely hurt your feelings.

 

I see your faith as a weakness.

I see your subscription to an unproven purple unicorn as a dangerous waste of time.

I see your complete acceptance of words wriitten by men as some absolute truth to be completely blind.

I see you as capable as much more.

I see you as part of the problem with our society.

 

 

With that said, I want...

You to know that I truly care about humanity.

With that said, I want...

You to know that you are a human being and have my respect, and I truly want what's best for you.

With that said, I want...

You to be capable of getting past the spoon fed information which is provided to you like you were some sort of sheep.

With that said, I want...

You to be happy, and to remember that my opinion truly means nothing compared to your own.

 

 

Religion gets in the way, but manages somehow to maintain a cushion of safety because it's truly not religion which is the problem, but the people who ascribe to one or the other.

 

 

Thank you for listening. I hope my words are seen as authentic. I hope that you are comfortable enough with yourself that you reflect on what I've said and do not take it personally.

 

With a kind heart but biting words,

iNow. :doh:

[Buffy]

...and you're both off topic:

 

Crescent: This thread is about conflicts between religions, not about promoting your religion, although your post above is an excellent example of the way that professions of the "truth" of a particular faith is offensive to those of other faiths. Does it cause you no feelings of guilt when you say that Jews or Christians are practicing false faiths?

 

Now: You know better. Vent elsewhere lil' guy.... :cheer:

 

We seem to be in this new state of chaos. Nobody's on message, because everybody's got their own message, :phones:

Buffy

[InfiniteNow]

Now: You know better. Vent elsewhere lil' guy....

 

While I agree about the posts being off topic, there's no need to be a condescending little bit... erm... staff member about it, 'kay?

 

 

I now return you to your regularly scheduled program. :phones:

[Boerseun]

Whilst being off-topic, I would just like to emphasize the point InfiniteNow was trying to make - it might seem hateful towards Muslims, being a reply to Rising Crescent, but InfiniteNow's post and points are equally relevant to Christians, Jews, Hindus, Bhuddists, basically any flavour of religion you'd care to mention.

 

So, Rising Crescent, before you take it the wrong way, it's nothing personal - it's just rational...

 

Right - let's get back on that there topic bus, shall we?

[Rade]

Who's the better person: a murder who is deeply sorry and regrets his actions everyday, or a non-murder who just goes through life wanting to snuff everyone who pisses him off?

Easy answer, the non murderer is the better person, not a good person perhaps, just a better person.

[Pyrotex]

But what if Life is Empty and Meaningless????