Atomic Clocks not stable

[FrankM]

The report that atomic clocks were out of sync during solar eclipses seems to be conveniently forgotten. A NASA report reminded everyone it was still out there.

 

http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast06aug99_1.htm

 

[Zhou, S. W.; Huang, B. J., "Abnormalities of the time comparisons of atomic clocks during the solar eclipses", Nuovo Cimento C, vol. 15 C, no. 2, Mar.-Apr. 1992, p. 133-137.] Time comparisons of two atomic clocks were made during the solar eclipses of September 23, 1987, March 18, 1988, and July 22, 1990. Abnormal variations of the time comparisons during the solar eclipses are confirmed, not only on a comparison clock pair, but also on many comparison clock pairs by means of three different methods during three solar eclipses.

 

Anyone have access to the Nuovo Cimento article?

[UncleAl]

Let's assume it is true as stated. Each of the 24+ GPS satellites carries four atomic clocks on board. The best atomic clocks are stable to about one part in 10^15. If having the moon come between your clocks and the sun causes clock anomalies, don't you think somebody would say something about all the GPS glitches, shadowed satellites vs. non-shadowed satellites?

 

http://spacescience.spaceref.com/newhome/headlines/ast12oct99_1.htm

 

Since time flow vs. an external inertial observer depends on net velocity (Special Relativity) and gravitational acceleration (General Relativity), having the moon and sun in-line overhead while you are on the ground could in principle alter local gravitation enough to glitch local clocks vs. distant atomic clocks. If so, then having a new moon directly overhead (near the sun but not perfectly aligned) should also glitch local atomic clocks, though less so.

[FrankM]

If having the moon come between your clocks and the sun causes clock anomalies, don't you think somebody would say something about all the GPS glitches, shadowed satellites vs. non-shadowed satellites?

You are making the assumption that the atomic clock problem identified on the Earth's surface is equivalent to a moon shadowed satellite. Also, you are forgetting who controls the GPS system, and they certainly aren't going to identify a "glitch" that might reveal a weakness or inaccuracy. Since a GPS coordinate is determined from multiple satellites, I don't know if a ground user would notice anything, plus they probably wouldn't be doing anything if they were in an eclipse zone. The only people who might know are those that monitor, in real-time, each individual satellite, and I don't think they are going to talk.

 

I referenced the incorrect NASA article, it should be:

 

http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast12oct99_1.htm

 

Nuovo Cimento did not start putting their articles on-line until 1998, thus someone would have to have access to a good university or a govt agencies library. I am sure NASA has it or it wouldn't have been referenced in one of their articles.

 

... having the moon and sun in-line overhead while you are on the ground could in principle alter local gravitation...

The NASA articles were primarily about the "Allais effect", which caused pendulums to be influenced "laterally", but gravimeters detected nothing (they look for vertical effects). Now you can add in a "lateral" gravitational effect along with atomic clocks being out of sync. I want to know whether the atomic clocks within the eclipse influence indicated faster or slower time relative to those outside.

[FrankM]

I found the Zhou, S. W.; Huang, B. J., "Abnormalities of the time comparisons of atomic clocks during the solar eclipses", Nuovo Cimento article in image gif form at the Max Planck Institute for Quantum Optics (14 images).

 

http://www.mpq.mpg.de/~haensch/eclipse/zhou.zip

 

The Nuovo Cimento article was cited in a report titled, "On the Behaviour of Atomic Clocks during the 1999 Solar Eclipse over Central Europe, Thomas Udem, Jörg Reichert, Ronald Holzwarth,Theodor Hänsch, Rainer Krämer, Jörg Hahn, and Jens Hammesfahr.

 

http://www.mpq.mpg.de/~haensch/eclipse/eclipse.html

 

It should be noted in the above article that the tests were approximately 35 km from the center of the eclipse path. The S.W. Zhou article stated their study was conducted during the partial solar eclipse of Dec 24th 1992 and they were examining the eclipse on different types of atomic clocks over a much wider area. They also monitored GPS timing. Note in paragraph 5.1, zhou9.gif, "It is clear after the solar eclipse effect, the rate of the clock did not reverse immediately to its original rate before the eclipse." The overall conclusions are noted in zhou13 and zhou14 gifs.

 

The Chinese used the term "abnormal gravitational phenomena" even though they did not provide gravimetric readings at any of the locations before, during or after the eclipse period.

 

If 'gravity waves' behave like waves in electromagnetics they should, in the right circumstances, display interference patterns. Perhaps a solar eclipse (sun, moon, Earth) creates the right circumstances, but where would the interference patterns be relative to the eclipse center? A partial solar eclipse may produce an off-center interference pattern, thus the same type experiment the Chinese conducted should be made during a full solar eclipse. Just in case the atomic clock eclipse effect is not gravity related, permittivity should be measured before, during and after the eclipse at the fixed clock locations.

 

I suspect the Allais effect and the "atomic clock solar eclipse effect" are two different phenomena being produced by a solar eclipse. In my previous post I stated,

I want to know whether the atomic clocks within the eclipse influence indicated faster or slower time relative to those outside.

It appears the delta-T is dependent upon where the clocks were relative to their position within the eclipse influence.

[FrankM]

An additional article has been found that covered the material identified in the eclipse.htm item, and it is in a Harvard medical site. Considerable more explanatory material is provided as to what conditions were monitored at the Wessling, Germany site. See the 2nd page of the pdf article, Chronometry,"Effect of the 1999 solar eclipse on atomic clocks".

 

http://genetics.med.harvard.edu/~tabin/Pdfs/Smith5.pdf

 

The Germans did not monitor gravimetric data either, even though they speculated that gravity effects might have been the cause of the effects observed by the Chinese. The Germans also used later model atomic clocks.