An Examination Of Trump.

[montgomery]

Here's a little tidbit from "Defense News."   They aint the Daily Stormer, so I can't vouch for them, but they gotta be better than RT, know what I'm sayin?

 

 

https://www.defensenews.com/smr/nuclear-arsenal/2019/02/06/russia-bids-farewell-to-inf-treaty-with-fresh-nuclear-development-plans/

Yes, your link points out that Russia is responding in kind. And the US takes the position that Russia benefits from the ripping up of the treaty.

 

And the comforting thing about it all for we the people, is that neither Russia or the US is has used them in the 75 years since the end of WW2. The Cuban missile crisis wasn't even close in fact because it was only the Soviet's response to US missiles in Turkey, so both sides had something from which to back off.

 

But now back to the topic. Now we have a psychopath who likely thinks the US could win a nuclear war!  A wild card we didn't have to worry about for those 75 years. And that's why I believe that the Kennedy solution is on the table for the FBI/Mueller.

 

Mental health professionls maintain that an hour or two of psychoanalyzing Trump in person would give them less than they already have on Trump with his blurting out of his nonsense via the social medias, for hundreds of hours. And I've checked that out in person with several psychologists and shrinks.

[montgomery]

One of the many links available for reading, which pertains to the topic of this thread.

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/the-time-cure/201709/the-dangerous-case-donald-trump

 

Does anybody have a link that expresses a contrary view of his alleged mental instability?

 

I did a search using the words "Trump is mentally stable" and all that comes up is the negative, such as:

 

https://www.statnews.com/2018/09/25/donald-trump-applied-psychoanalysis-diagnosis/

 

Public polls in America are a little kinder to Trump with only a slight majority saying Trump is mentally ill. In the rest of the world, it's much more like a large majority say he's mentally ill! 

 

And finally, to take the other side of the debate, more or less? A link that is at least in part complimentary to Trump's mental health?

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/3253185/donald-trump-psychiatrist/

 

The link above:

 

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders sets down a series of criteria for deciding whether a person has narcissistic personality disorder.

They include an grandiose sense of self-importance; arrogant behaviour; carrying on a sense of entitlement; and needing regular praise and admiration.

Edited February 7, 2019 by montgomery

[Moronium]

Even assuming that Trump is a nacissist, that's hardly a disabling or disqualifying mental illness.  It's a personality trait, not a psychosis.  LBJ may have been the most narcissistic person on the planet.  JFK, FDR, and Clinton are included in the top 6 "narcissistic" presidents, according to one psychological "study" (where Obama wasn't even included because he was still president)--all of them ahead of Nixon on that scale.

 

That doesn't make them, or Trump, Hitler.

 

Effective leaders often display such symptoms.  Hell, it might even be required.  Look at George Patton, ChurchilI, and many others in leadership positions.  I want a leader who is effective, even if I don't personally "like" him.  I doubt you could ever run into a highly skilled fighter pilot who wasn't brash, cocky, highly self-assured and "conceited."  Or you might say "narcissistic."  It they're the best pilots, then they're the ones I want flying the missions. 

 

The top competitors in almost any enterprise will always think they're the best--even if they're not.  That would be the case even if the contest was to see  who was the "most humble."

Edited February 8, 2019 by Moronium

[Moronium]

Marion Barry a former very popular Mayor of Washington D. C. once said:

 

I am a great mayor; I am an upstanding Christian man; I am an intelligent man; I am a deeply educated man; I am a humble man.

 

[montgomery]

Well at least we have established that Trump is mentally ill! Or is inflicted with a personality disorder if we prefer. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

 

 

 

Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is a personality disorder with a long-term pattern of abnormal behavior characterized by exaggerated feelings of self-importance, excessive need for admiration, and a lack of empathy.^[2][3]Those affected often spend much time thinking about achieving power or success, or on their appearance.^[3] They often take advantage of the people around them.^[3] The behavior typically begins by early adulthood, and occurs across a variety of social situations.^[3]

 

^{It's the lack of empathy that is the most troubling in the case of Trump because of his ability to start a nuclear war.}

^{And especially when he's now surrounded himself with hawks that are supportive of his agenda..}

 

^{And to the topic, every time we find a description of that which afflicts Trump's personality, it seems that it could have been written especially for him.}

Edited February 8, 2019 by montgomery

[Moronium]

Well at least we have established that Trump is mentally ill! Or is inflicted with a personality disorder if we prefer. 

 

It's the lack of empathy that is the most troubling in the case of Trump 

 

 

We?  I simply said "even assuming."  I didn't say it had been established.

 

But now let's assume that he (like virtually every other politician known to man) has a "lack of empathy."

 

What to you do with a guy like that?   Wait, I know:  Kill him.

 

When you kill him, you're showing your own great capacity for empathy, because you're kind enough to put him out of his misery, I figure.

[montgomery]

We?  I simply said "even assuming."  I didn't say it had been established.

 

But now let's assume that he (like virtually every other politician known to man) has a "lack of empathy."

 

What to you do with a guy like that?   Wait, I know:  Kill him.

 

When you kill him, you're showing your own great capacity for empathy, because you're kind enough to put him out of his misery, I figure.

When I said 'we' I wasn't referring to anything you said. I was referencing the fact that the professional mental health community generally agrees that Trump's narcissism is a mental illness. It's of little consequence what an angry lay person believes, and I include myself, sans the anger.

 

'We' have also established that in some instances it's to the good of humanity to kill dangerous tyrants, terrorists, or even freedom fighters if they are fighting for the wrong side or the side of evil. 

 

I'm not suggesting that I would do the killing or the elimination of the mentally ill tyrant but I suggest that killing Trump should remain on the table as a solution. The man is mentally ill and the dangers of him being in a position of great power are well laid out in the Wikepedia link. Chiefly, his lack of empathy, which is described as a trait of narcissists. And you have already written that you accept him being a narcissist! 

 

Do you have anything more to add to our 'Examination of Trump"?

 

Perhaps we can explore the traits of the psychopath? or corporate psychopaths? A most dangerous trait is they will not accept defeat! 

[GAHD]

I don't know, I kinda think a billionaire deserves to have ego. One could say it's literally proven self worth. As for empathy: You seem to think it's always a good thing. I, as well as many others, think that it is a horrible trait that makes people irrational and causes more problems than it solves. I recommend you too read that linked excerpt from "against empathy" on google books, and find some way to read the whole thing.

Empathy can be just as dangerous as lack thereof. The deciding factor is how much rationality the person/people with/without have in their actions. Particularly misplaced empathy for people who do NOT deserve it is terrifying. Prime example (though slightly offtopic) Would be Trudeau and his actions on cabinet choice(not based on competance but rather on "because it's 2016"), rampant foreign spending("these poor people need your tax dollars spent on them instead of on local healthcare"), etc..,

Ironically, with Trump, I don't see a lack of empathy. At least, I don't see a sadistic twist along with lack of empathy. Again, 80's-90's, actions. Inner city charity work. Overall actions in relation to personal and society improvement. Even his campaign speeches dripped with empathy for the working class and their grievances. If you don't see that...really, what rock have you been hiding under? I suppose it COULD all be an act, or merely "enlightened self-interest"(look that up) but still. Not seeing what you're laying down. Didn't the guy Completely Neuter the problems with NK nuclear proliferation recently?

Irony: "not saying we should kill him, but we should totally keep killing him as an option!" Wow, you'd think you have zero clue about impeachment(ever hear of Hillary's husband?), how the DOD and senate structure works (especially regarding war), Really man, you are talking like a fanatic SS would about "that pesky jew who owns the coffee shop." Not saying we should Kill the coffee shop owner, but we should totally TALK about killing them.

[fahrquad]

Somebody please wake me in 2020...assuming all good Amurikans remember just how bad Frump was.  Nixon was a saint by comparison.  Yes, I voted for Gary Johnson in 2016 as the lesser of three weasels.  I have a couple of his campaign signs stashed so I can confuse the heck out of my neighbors in 2020.

[montgomery]

I don't know, I kinda think a billionaire deserves to have ego. One could say it's literally proven self worth. As for empathy: You seem to think it's always a good thing. I, as well as many others, think that it is a horrible trait that makes people irrational and causes more problems than it solves. I recommend you too read that linked excerpt from "against empathy" on google books, and find some way to read the whole thing.

 

Empathy can be just as dangerous as lack thereof. The deciding factor is how much rationality the person/people with/without have in their actions. Particularly misplaced empathy for people who do NOT deserve it is terrifying. Prime example (though slightly offtopic) Would be Trudeau and his actions on cabinet choice(not based on competance but rather on "because it's 2016"), rampant foreign spending("these poor people need your tax dollars spent on them instead of on local healthcare"), etc..,

 

Ironically, with Trump, I don't see a lack of empathy. At least, I don't see a sadistic twist along with lack of empathy. Again, 80's-90's, actions. Inner city charity work. Overall actions in relation to personal and society improvement. Even his campaign speeches dripped with empathy for the working class and their grievances. If you don't see that...really, what rock have you been hiding under? I suppose it COULD all be an act, or merely "enlightened self-interest"(look that up) but still. Not seeing what you're laying down. Didn't the guy Completely Neuter the problems with NK nuclear proliferation recently?

 

Irony: "not saying we should kill him, but we should totally keep killing him as an option!" Wow, you'd think you have zero clue about impeachment(ever hear of Hillary's husband?), how the DOD and senate structure works (especially regarding war), Really man, you are talking like a fanatic SS would about "that pesky jew who owns the coffee shop." Not saying we should Kill the coffee shop owner, but we should totally TALK about killing them.

Did you forget to provide the link to 'Against Empathy', or did you want me to find it myself?

 

Some time back this became less about Trump, for me, and more about the people who support him. So I'll ask you if my impression is right: 

 

Both Trump and Bernie appealed to an anti-establishment faction who were in general poor and downtrodden middle class who were fed up with the American way. They weren't Republicans or Democrats but people who represented the huge protest movement which has grown rapidly in the US due to income inequality heavily weighted to the top 1 or 2%. They could have chosen Bernie but they chose Trump because Trump promised more. Then it was discovered that Trump lied, and as is typical of a corporate psychopath, he did pretty much the opposite. 

 

I'm quite sure you won't be able to accept any of that but I want to run it by you anyway for your comments. The reason being, Trump's audience is captive because Americans are not likely to accept that their system has failed. They've been waving their flag and singing about it's glory and wonder, all the way back to childhood. This is the establishment's way of keeping a hold on the people.

 

Can any politician or political party ever give back to ordinary Americans a piece of the pie? Yes, likely in a lesser way than was possible previously, but the pressures against ever doing so are enormous. It would take a breakthrough on income inequality which would literally require a breakdown of the system. It's spoken of all the time by the followers of the fringe parties but they appear to not have a chance of success in the foreseeable future. And now the main parties are aware of what Bernie or Trump might have done and are doubly cautious and taking more precautions to prevent it from happening.

 

And now, even if, or more likely when, the system is defeated, the recovery will be much slower and less complete because America is no longer the world power that can provide for it's people in the way it did in the past. Foreign aggression is almost off the table due to other world powers demanding their rights and possessions in countries such as Syria and Venezuela. America may very well have to face the MAD factor in order to go to war in Venezuela.

 

I mention that because it all has a lot to do with US prosperity, as opposed to the prosperity of the other superpowers. 

 

How does this pertain to Trump? Not so much because he will almost certainly be eliminated some way or other at the end of his 4 year term. But what will Americans look for in the future, considering that it's going to take more American wars and more power grabs to ensure America's prosperity in the world. And the MAD factor makes that literally impossible. On the bright side, world war has become impossible, if we don't have to worry about the mad psychopath factor, that can't ever accept anything but winning and can't accept defeat.

[montgomery]

If Americans ever turn away from their patriotism and flagwaving to look at this:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/duncanmadden/2018/03/27/ranked-the-10-happiest-countries-in-the-world-in-2018/

 

And how those countries got that way through 'socially responsible capitalism', then the American establishment and the American way will become very seriously threatened. This is what Bernie and Trump promised. 

 

Bernie would have most likely been destroyed before he gained any success, and Trump never did intend to deliver. 

[montgomery]

Somebody please wake me in 2020...assuming all good Amurikans remember just how bad Frump was.  Nixon was a saint by comparison.  Yes, I voted for Gary Johnson in 2016 as the lesser of three weasels.  I have a couple of his campaign signs stashed so I can confuse the heck out of my neighbors in 2020.

I would suggest that Gary Johnson and those like him of the fringe parties aren't going to be able to bring the breakdown of the greedy capitalist system. It's going to have to be through one of the major parties and it's likely the Democrats that are the most vulnerable. However, the perfect anti-establishment candidate doesn't seem to have appeared yet. 

 

But rather than jump ahead that far, the elimination of Trump has to happen, one way or another. I think that your FBI and Mueller understand the grave danger of allowing him to continue for much longer. Maybe Trump will just resign instead of having to face the pressure that's going to be put on him and his famity? 

[Moronium]

Empathy can be just as dangerous as lack thereof. The deciding factor is how much rationality the person/people with/without have in their actions. Particularly misplaced empathy for people who do NOT deserve it is terrifying. 

 

Another question is exactly who you should have empathy for?  Who do you empathize with? Everyone has their own problems; who deserves your "empathy?"  On an individual level, this is generally answered by resort to idiosyncratic, subjective preconceptions.  There is nothing "objective" about it.  It doesn't reveal how "virtuous" you are.  It basically just reveals what tribe you belong to.  Empathy for one group is generally accompanied by antipathy for another (see, e.g, Monty).

 

"The worst of charity is that the lives you are asked to preserve are not worth preserving."  (Ralph Waldo Emerson) 

Some time back this became less about Trump, for me, and more about the people who support him.  (Monty)

America First, Baby!  (me)

Edited February 9, 2019 by Moronium

[montgomery]

Another question is exactly who you should have empathy for?  Who do you empathize with? Everyone has their own problems; who deserves your "empathy?"  On an individual level, this is generally answered by resort to idiosyncratic, subjective pre-conceptions.  There is nothing "objective" about it.  It doesn't reveal how "virtuous" you are.  It basically just reveals what tribe you belong to.  Empathy for one group is generally accompanied by antipathy for another.

It's not about normal persons having empathy for others, it's about abnormal personalities lacking any empathy for others. This is the trait of the psychopath and the narcissist. Nobody needs your empathy because it has no real value to humanity, as is largely true of mine too. But Trump is the president! 

 

Most psychopaths do little harm to humanity but usually do great harm to people close to them. Corporate paychopaths do great harm to many people, as was the case of Bernie Madoff. And then the potential for great harm being done to hundreds of millions of lives is enormous in a US president.

 

And now Trump is well on his way to doing great harm to hundreds and thousands. His actions against people seeking asylum in the US is an example. Fortunately, Trump's evil is being curtailed with the political fight that's developed. Another example would be the way in which Trump has enabled North Korea, on the guise of making the situation better for the US. On the positive side, he's made the situation much safer for North Korea because they have now developed the deterrent to US led war. 

 

The fact that China would have never allowed the US led war is another factor worth talking about. In truth, China hasn't needed to threaten and that fact escapes Trump completely.

Edited February 9, 2019 by montgomery

[Moronium]

And now Trump is well on his way to doing great harm to hundreds and thousands. His actions against people seeking asylum in the US is an example. 

 

 

Thanks for making my point for me, Monty.

 

America Second, better yet, Last, Mofo!  (Monty)

Edited February 9, 2019 by Moronium

[Moronium]

I was walking down the street the other day and some bum accosted me seeking "spare change."

 

For some unknown (and virtually unforgiveable) reason, I gave the mutt a couple of dollars.

 

As I was walking away, he screamed at me:  "You selfish bastard!  Two damn dollars!?  I know you have more than that on you.  I hope you rot in hell!"

Edited February 9, 2019 by Moronium

[montgomery]

Another question is exactly who you should have empathy for?  Who do you empathize with? Everyone has their own problems; who deserves your "empathy?"  On an individual level, this is generally answered by resort to idiosyncratic, subjective preconceptions.  There is nothing "objective" about it.  It doesn't reveal how "virtuous" you are.  It basically just reveals what tribe you belong to.  Empathy for one group is generally accompanied by antipathy for another (see, e.g, Monty).

 

Thanks for making my point for me, Monty.

You're welcome! In truth I'm pretty sure that America can no longer be first, and that's the main reason for most of the trouble with Russia and China. The US position in the world is sorely challenged now. But it's not going to be America last.

 

It can't be America first because war with the superpowers is out of the question. MAD! But America will undoubtedly continue to be a huge global competitor. China is soon going to take America's place as #1 and Russia has closely allied itself with China.

 

The first real indication that the party was over for America is the result of Russia's interference in Syria. My theory is that Obama betrayed his country when he made the deal with Putin and Assad on Syria's (imaginary' WMD's. (chem/bio weapons) The same situation that was created for the Iraq war was developing quickly at the hands of the US. Obama's red line speech was the perfect setup to which Russia and China needed to comply. The deal was signed and it took away US legitimacy for the PNAC planned war. Even though the US desperately tried to make it look like Assad didn't comply with the deal, the US couldn't float the image.

 

Peace has come to Syria and Russia is now the invited superpower in control! 

 

Can the US still make it happen to it's satisfaction in Venezuela?

 

The point is Moronium, the party's over and nothing is ever going to be the same. The US's 40 wars of aggression since WW2, may not become 41?