Moronium Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 (edited) I've stated this contradiction many times but relativists, just like any crank, redact it from consideration because this question is outside their recited scripts. That's because they don't have an answer and because they ignore the findings of H-K. H-K found that time dilation correlates with absolute motion, NOT relative motion. Which is just another way of saying that they found SR to be wrong. Edited February 19, 2019 by Moronium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralfcis Posted February 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 (edited) It's because your 1st answer isn't right.B's third party perspective of two people's relative velocity is not the same as his perspective between Alice and then his separate perspective to the earth because the relativistic velocity combo equation does not apply to third party perspectives only to parties directly involved in relative velocity with each other. It's like saying you can take a laser pointer from earth and swipe it quickly across the surface of the moon and declare the light spot moved way faster than light speed across the surface. PS. as to your next post, that's your answer to the HK not theirs. If you don't understand relative velocity, which you don't, how do you hope to understand the HK? PPS I guess I just answered my own question about the HK. The time dilation result for relative velocity is not a 3rd party perspective, it's actually subject to the relativistic velocity combo law. I was comparing apples to iguanas also called apples just like Moronium always does. Relative velocity from a 3rd party perspective is not the same thing as 2 party relative velocity from a perspective of the parties involved. Thanks Moronium for accidentally triggering me to answer my own question. Edited February 19, 2019 by ralfcis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moronium Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 (edited) PS. as to your next post, that's your answer to the HK not theirs. If you don't understand relative velocity, which you don't, how do you hope to understand the HK? No, that was H & K's answer. If you understood the concepts, and if you knew how to read their paper, then you would know that. See my posts 785-789 here. http://www.scienceforums.com/topic/34895-personal-topic/page-47 You have already demonstrated that YOU don't understand the difference between absolute and relative velocity, even after I took the time to explain it to you. You're hopeless, Ralf. Edited February 19, 2019 by Moronium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moronium Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 It's because your 1st answer isn't right. What are you talking about MY answer for? I'm talking about YOUR answer. You've given two seemingly contradictory answers. I thought you were great at math, eh? .97 - .8 = .17 .17 does not equal .8 (your first answer). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralfcis Posted February 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 I never said any answer of .17. You said that as a result of your faulty reasoning and resultant faulty math. I've edited my last post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moronium Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 (edited) You didn't even understand the question. Read it again. I didn't say you said .17 Your math skills seems very poor. I think you need to put down your slide rule, quit doing math, and try to understand the concepts you're trying to apply math to. Edited February 19, 2019 by Moronium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moronium Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 (edited) Once again: 1. I asked you what B perceived the relative speed between himself and E to be. You said .8 (your first answer) 2. I asked you what B perceived the relative speed himself and A to be. You said .97 (your first answer) 3. That only leaves .17 between A and E. 4. But then I asked you what B saw the difference between A and E to be. You said .8 5. .8 is NOT .17 It's simple arithmetic Edited February 19, 2019 by Moronium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralfcis Posted February 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 Simple, yes, very simple. That's exactly what I think. Did you punch those numbers into the calculator all by yourself. I'm not going to repeat again and again why that's not the right answer because you can't understand why. Your dials are turned to 11 which is more than 10; that's also simple arithmetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moronium Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 Yeah, that's what I thought, Ralf. Like I said, you're hopeless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralfcis Posted February 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 Let me share a story with you that once got me banned from a forum. A couple invested a lot of time to train their parrot into saying, "squawk, E=mc2 , squawk." People came from miles around to marvel at the parrot who was familiar with Einstein's theory of relativity. The end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moronium Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 (edited) I'm not going to repeat again and again why that's not the right answer What's not the right answer? .8c or .17c? You have effectively given both answers. What you've said, so far, is that B sees his speed relative to E to be .8c AND he also sees the speed between A and E to be .8c. Newsflash: .8 and .8 is 1.6 Yet you say that B sees the difference between himself and A to be .97c (first answer). So you only left .17 between A and E in your first answer. (.97c - .8c = .17c), so why is it now suddenly .8c? Edited February 19, 2019 by Moronium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralfcis Posted February 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 (edited) OK now you're just making things up. Never did I say or imply the number .17c. That is your wrong answer so stop it. I mean you can't even understand the most simple things in a discussion. Edited April 12, 2019 by ralfcis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moronium Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 (edited) Heh. now you resort to the "you're lying" tactic, eh? READ YOUR OWN DAMN WORDS, fool. Why, I wonder, do you say that others don't understand the concepts or the math, when you don't yourself? I guess I'll have to ask David Dunning. Edited February 19, 2019 by Moronium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moronium Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 (edited) OK now you're just outright lying. Never did I say or imply the number .17c. You didn't explicitly say it, but, if you understood math, you would know you implied it (mathematically). It's kinda like this. You tell me that you had $80 but spent $63 So I say: "So you only have $17 lett, eh? You: NO!!!! I didn't say I only had $17 left. As a matter of fact I still have $80 left. Put another way, you're saying: "I had $97, so I gave $80 to Jack and $80 to John." Don't quite add up, know what I'm sayin? Edited February 19, 2019 by Moronium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanBreeze Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralfcis Posted February 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 I wonder what Popeye's math answer would be. No, wait, I just care what the right answer is. .97 of an iguana minus .8 of an apple does not equal .17 of an igapple and I never said it did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moronium Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 I wonder what Popeye's math answer would be. Popeye could give the right (well, according to SR, I mean) answers to the questions I asked you, and he could do it in a NY second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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