The Logical Constructs Of Easter

[GAHD]

 

Well....Could we say that there are elements of logic in the context of Easter Sunday ?

 

I fail to see why you try to marry faith and secular thought so often. They are separate simply because one naturally erodes the other.

[fahrquad]

While we are on the subject of islands named for Christian Holidays, there is "Christmas Island" near Java and Borneo.  The average high temperature is 81.3`F and the average low is 73.2`F with annual rainfall totaling 85.94 inches.  There are no Moai on the island but it is notable for its Coconut Crab population.  Specimens have been recorded at 9 pounds and up to 3'-3" across.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_Island

[fahrquad]

No, I don't think it has. But how could we tell either way? 

 

A large part of the New World spoke Spanish (or Portuguese) and were devout Catholics.

[hazelm]

Easter is a Christian celebration of the return of the zombie god from the dead.

 

"Easter and the holidays that are related to it are moveable feasts which do not fall on a fixed date in the Gregorian or Julian calendars which follow only the cycle of the Sun; rather, its date is offset from the date of Passover and is therefore calculated based on a lunisolar calendar similar to the Hebrew calendar. The First Council of Nicaea (325) established two rules, independence of the Jewish calendar and worldwide uniformity, which were the only rules for Easter explicitly laid down by the council. No details for the computation were specified; these were worked out in practice, a process that took centuries and generated a number of controversies. It has come to be the first Sunday after the ecclesiastical full moon that occurs on or soonest after 21 March,^[12] but calculations vary.

 

Easter is linked to the Jewish Passover by much of its symbolism, as well as by its position in the calendar. In most European languages the feast is called by the words for passover in those languages; and in the older English versions of the Bible the term Easter was the term used to translate passover.^[13]Easter customs vary across the Christian world, and include sunrise services, exclaiming the Paschal greeting, clipping the church,^[14] and decorating Easter eggs (symbols of the empty tomb).^[15][16][17] The Easter lily, a symbol of the resurrection,^[18][19] traditionally decorates the chancel area of churches on this day and for the rest of Eastertide.^[20] Additional customs that have become associated with Easter and are observed by both Christians and some non-Christians include egg hunting, the Easter Bunny, and Easter parades.^[21][22][23] There are also various traditional Easter foods that vary regionally."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter

Good summary.  Just one more thing.  You mention Easter being linked to Passover.  It had to be, given that Jesus and his disciples were celebrating Passover just before the crucifixion. Then came the resurrection (Easter) - three days later?  Thus Passover and Easter would naturally come close together without the Church commanding it.  If we follow Bible history, the two would always be a given number of days apart every year but it isn't, is it?  And therein is that complicated set of rules created by the Church. 

 

Of course,  this may be what you are saying with "as well as by its position in the calendar."  Just adding the logic behind the link.  As to how the church plans Easter around the moon has always stumped me.  I know it can come as late as April 22.  It can also come quite early in March.  Does Passover also move like this?  Or are we using a different span of days from one year to another?  I've never stopped to examine it.

[fahrquad]

...Of course,  this may be what you are saying with "as well as by its position in the calendar."  Just adding the logic behind the link.  As to how the church plans Easter around the moon has always stumped me.  I know it can come as late as April 22.  It can also come quite early in March.  Does Passover also move like this?  Or are we using a different span of days from one year to another?  I've never stopped to examine it.

 

Today's date apparently is 3 Iyar 5779...

Put on a fresh pot of coffee and sit back for a long read.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_calendar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar

http://www.wildolive.co.uk/calendars.htm

[hazelm]

Today's date apparently is 3 Iyar 5779...

Put on a fresh pot of coffee and sit back for a long read.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_calendar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar

http://www.wildolive.co.uk/calendars.htm

Thank you, fahrquad.  I truly enjoyed that third link.  I'd never heard of Rosh Chodesh.  In fact, I'd never known a lot of that. Some I did but not much.  Very interesting.  I'll bet it keeps the rabbis busy remembering what the calendar is doing.  But, if one grew up with it .... easy,  I suppose. 

 

I did know that their calendar runs from the creation.  But "BCE"?  Don't we also see that abbreviation in science writings?  I thought it meant Before Christian Era, given when it ends in that usage.  Does it?

 

We had a lot of bible History study at school.  As I remember it concentrated mostly on the Old Testament and the four gospels.   Very enjoyable but I like history. 

 

Thanks again.

[hazelm]

Has religion not been a highly effective way of controlling the masses?

I would say that, for a log time, it definitely was a way to control the masses.  Definitely in the early Christian era.  And the Chinese, at one time, controlled their people  with a religion.  "Thou shalt..." was a rigid concept extended from early history to those in power who added more "thou shalts"  or added to the thou shalts and/or shalt nots. The people who could neither read nor write and were often quite superstitious were easily led.

 

All that is passing now but back then maybe it was easier to live if the king or church leaders simplified everything and the people simply did as told.  Much like young children?  "Mama say so"  "Papa said so".  Until we begin to think for ourselves. 

[fahrquad]

Thank you, fahrquad.  I truly enjoyed that third link.  I'd never heard of Rosh Chodesh.  In fact, I'd never known a lot of that. Some I did but not much.  Very interesting.  I'll bet it keeps the rabbis busy remembering what the calendar is doing.  But, if one grew up with it .... easy,  I suppose. 

 

I did know that their calendar runs from the creation.  But "BCE"?  Don't we also see that abbreviation in science writings?  I thought it meant Before Christian Era, given when it ends in that usage.  Does it?

 

We had a lot of bible History study at school.  As I remember it concentrated mostly on the Old Testament and the four gospels.   Very enjoyable but I like history. 

 

Thanks again.

 

BC as in "Before Christ" has been changed to BCE or "Before the Christian Era" by the politically correct.

[hazelm]

BC as in "Before Christ" has been changed to BCE or "Before the Christian Era" by the politically correct.

Makes sense to me.

[hazelm]

Perhaps an experiment to prove one way or another might be to indoctrinate some young impressionable people into an arbitrary religion and tell them to go and murder a group of people that don't believe in their religion. If they went ahead and killed, would that be proof one way or another, that religion can be used to control people. ie Holy Jihad, Holy War, Crusades etc. are  examples of religion controlling peoples lives, and people using their religion to destroy the lives of others.

 

Was any part of any of the old testament based religions written by women. Did any writer in any of the old testament based religions ever treat women as equals. Does Islam, the Catholic Church etc treat women as equals.   

It seems to me that we have had such groups formed right here in our own country.  We don't have to go halfway around the world to find someone  who has gathered together a small clan of  impressionable people - even children - and declared themselves God's appointed to lead their followers, only to all but enslave them and force them into acts we'd never believe thinking people would do. 

 

We read about such in the news every once in a while. 

[Dubbelosix]

Which is why I don't like ''religion,'' because the notion of a god and scientific principles need not conflict.

[Dubbelosix]

Religion to me is about the control/guiding of peoples hearts and minds, effectively controlling compliant social groups. . :zip:

 

This might not have anything to do with the notion of god and scientific principles you are referring too.

 

Can you define the notion of god and scientific principles you are referring too.   

 

 

I could, but first, I want to iterate you are right, religion is there to control people. There is no god in the vast cosmos that wishes to control anything, but the laws he/she set down. The worse conflict I am sure you are aware of, is when religions fight religions, in the ''namesake'' of their gods. Mankind has fallen to this trap so many time, been the match that sent men to wars and was basis for discrimination based on color and creed of all kinds. Religion, truly is the problem, I'll get back to the complimentaries [of a god] and science, soon.

Edited May 4, 2019 by Dubbelosix

[Dubbelosix]

 

Can you define the notion of god and scientific principles you are referring too.   

 

I could define a notion of god in three ways:

 

1. God is a computer, therefore, likely not conscious, unless you are open to an AI interpretation.

 

2. God is a connection to everything that is and everything that will be, who has no consideration for what intelligent beings like us are doing (Spinozian, as founded through Einstein in his own remarks).

 

or...

 

3. God could be the definition of ''evil'' and ''good'' fighting itself through the great nature we see around us.

 

But to define god outside the philosophical practices, with science can be quite spurious, but there does exist in nature, over 120 fine tuning constants that if had been any different, the reality we see around us, would no longer exist. Scientists resorted very early on with untestable theories (ie. parallel universes) in order to explain how this apparent ''fluke'' of nature is not so much a fluke. Instead they should be looking at the values and just sticking with what they know, and that is, reality is not a fluke and as Susskind eloquently put, ''we are open to the idea of god being the answer, though unlikely.''

 

But this is in the eye of the beholder and how you translate the physics at hand.

[Dubbelosix]

You may have hit the nail on the head, Maybe god is a woman and that's why we find it bloody difficult to understand her  :)

 

I say he or she, but these are just labels of nature itself, whether god actually has a sex is uncertain, possibly borderline anthropomorphic in nature.

[Dubbelosix]

1) Man created computers > therefore man is god

2) god is connected to everything that ever was > therefore everything is god

3) god is bipolar > 

 

By defining a god are you not creating a god in your mind, that likely doesn't exist. Why does anyone need a god, or even want one. If your option 2 is correct, then oh god, good god we are all god. :eek:    

 

Well, in the train of Spinozian thought, god could simply be the great nature around us - nature cares not of an individual, perhaps maybe not even a species.

 

 

If one wants to define a god, it has to be within the parameters of science, otherwise it lands as just a religion. But then you have a small group of closed minded people who think science is a religion, but science is much more than that.

 

We could be god for all I know, we could be as Fred Wolf once said, ''we are gods, the great spill of consciousness.''

[fahrquad]

It seems to me that we have had such groups formed right here in our own country.  We don't have to go halfway around the world to find someone  who has gathered together a small clan of  impressionable people - even children - and declared themselves God's appointed to lead their followers, only to all but enslave them and force them into acts we'd never believe thinking people would do. 

 

We read about such in the news every once in a while. 

 

76 Branch Davidians chose to die under the influence of David Koresh in 1993 in a stand-off with the ATF.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege

 

Jim Jones took 918 followers with him in Jonestown, South Africa in 1978.  The phrase "Don't drink the Kool-Aid" originated there as followers including children were given cyanide laced Kool-Aid in what was mostly a mass-suicide.  Some, including US Congressman Leo Ryan, were murdered.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown

 

The Oklahoma City Bombing, which killed 168 innocent bystanders, may have been motivated in part by anger over Waco and Ruby Ridge.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge

 

Ruby Ridge had no apparent religious connotations, but it was part of the motivation for the OKC bombing.

[fahrquad]

1) Man created computers > therefore man is god

2) god is connected to everything that ever was > therefore everything is god

3) god is bipolar > 

 

By defining a god are you not creating a god in your mind, that likely doesn't exist. Why does anyone need a god, or even want one. If your option 2 is correct, then oh god, good god we are all god. :eek:    

 

Yeah man, we are all one with the universe.  Spritz a little patchouli around and smoke another doobie.  :esmoking:

Is Dave there man?