GOD

[OpenMind5]

Hey everyone!

 

Ok, I was told that my discussion of God belonged in this section of the forum. So here it is…

 

THE QUESTION/TOPIC: God! Is there a god? Is he the reason for existence? Is the bible correct? Is god a he or a she? What are your views on god? What experiences have you had?

 

OK, I know this is a interesting and probably a hard topic…but I want to hear from everyone who views this post! I don’t care if you don’t have an opinion, then post the words.. “NO OPIONION” Real big…

 

I want this to be a hot topic for everyone…I won’t post my views on the subject yet, not in the opening of a post…that will be later…and don’t feel weird about this…be proud of what you think…tell it to everyone…THANK YOU TO ALL WHO POST!

 

OpenMindFive-(Aka-OP5)

[Tim_Lou]

God, is the ultimate, the source of everything.

god is light, god is power, for everything is part of god.

 

people dont believe in god, is because there is no evidence that god exist.

but there is not really an evidence that prove god doesnt exist.

 

everyone experience god, but the knowledge in our brains cannot admit it thus questions it and deny it.

 

if you question god, god doesnt exist, and the world becomes a question. if you try to feel it, god does exist, god goes in your heart and brain and the knowledge of the whole becomes clear.

 

god is the person that we blame for creating the world, but there must be something that is the sources of everything. since everything came out from something.

 

for those who dont believe anyone kind of god, the life became lifeless. there is nothing after life, everything came from something dead.... so, y not assume that there is a god and you will feel better about the world and have a different view point of it.

 

some of my feelings, lol.... hope you understand what im saying.

[OpenMind5]

Thank u Tim_Lou...I understand...

[TINNY]

What religion are you guys following? Or, no religion.

Most religions say God is eternal, omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient besides others.

God is absolute.

In the koran/Qur'an, Allah(God) says"I am the light beyond the light". From einstein's discovery, light is the only thing that is absolute (not the light from light bulbs, but photons of electromagnetic energy).

[Tormod]

Tim_Lou - "for those who dont believe anyone kind of god, the life became lifeless."

 

Well, that may be correct for some people, but I think most people who don't think of themselves as religious have a more refined view on this. "Death is the end" means different things to people. All life is part of the environment. So when anything dies (plants, animals, people) their bodies are recycled and all the components broken down into molecules which are reused. What is lost is the sense of existence, or the "soul" which some call it. I think you will find that many non-believers are unsure as to what to say about what happens to the soul, even if they don't believe in an afterlife.

 

"there is nothing after life, everything came from something dead.... so, y not assume that there is a god and you will feel better about the world and have a different view point of it."

 

You are saying that by just believing in a divine being then your worries are gone. That is hardly an argument for the *existence* of any divine being?

 

Tormod

[sanctus]

I like the idea inspired by Karel Capek (by the way the inventor of the word roboter) in the book "The absolute or the industry of god" (the title is my transaltion into english), what he sais there is that god is infinite, but not in the religious way.

 

To explain what I mean by this infinite I quote from the book: " [...] one finds himself standing on a mountain looking down on the land below seeing grassland, forests, [...] with all this living things inside, flowers, bugs and butterflies and then starts to multiplie mentally all this abundance which expands until god knows where [...] and then looks in the night sky and thinks how many times this abundance is in the universe: the conclusion is that if anything or anyone has created all this then it is a big waste. [...] Who [God] is from the beginning infinite hasn't any kind of measure (because having a measure implies being finite), actually has no measure."

 

If I believe in a god? I don't know, I just believe in something I haven't defined yet (maybe some kind of energy or the anti-symmetry between the splitting of energy into matter and anti-matter which made possible that the matter as we know it is present).

 

The bible? It's a nobel book (not the only one!) with the simple purpose to create a better world. Some people need it some think they don't and some really don't. For me it is just an instrument done to the society to make a better one..... but as anyone knows every instrument can be used the wrong way around...(see for example Christian people in the army, while the bible says to love your ennemy-- it seems very hypocrite to me).

[Tim_Lou]

my believe of god is scientific, it has nothing to do w/ religious.

i dont believe in the bible.

 

god is actually a Philosophy term, a hypothesis.

it is very scientific.

 

scientists had found very difficult to explain the world. why the world exist? why are we here?

a "theory" of god is made to explain verything more easily (just like other theories). everything seems to make sense w/ god. but just there is no evidence to really prove god's existence. without god, how do you explain the world?? tons of questions became unanswered. such as why do things exist? why do the world exists? whats the purpose?

 

science is made for us to understand the world better.

while god is one of them that let us understand the world better.

 

dont think that bible is stupid. it might be made by those who seen god in near-death experiences or other ways. some of the stories might be made up. but the bible doesnt seem to be a fiction at all.

 

in the past, people believe greatly in the god. why? because they are stupid? probably not. there might be proofs from the past, but as time goes, they were lost and people start to question it since there is no proof. (some of my guesses, lol)

[TINNY]

the original text of the bible is the word of God, christians say. but bibles have been altered into different versions, each contradicting a little, or are different. so it is not relevant.

muslims believe in jesus as a prophet, and the original bible to be the guide before the arrival of Muhammad. then, the qur'an is the most complete, comprehensive and final one, brought by muhammad from god. and the quran has no different versions.the ones found right now are the exact one from muhammad, although at that time it was not in the form of a book.

The Qur'an does not contradict with science. It contains scientific facts not known to the world at the time of muhammad. Try read some translations of it. there are a few at project gutenberg that i know.

[ProfessorX]

so what do you guys think the purpose in life is?

[OpenMind5]

As a Christan I am Compelled to say the meaning is to serve God, but I think life is more complex than that...if any of you read the posts on "After life" I said my ideas heaven and hell or like ladders where we can ascend or desend....I Think life is more like a test really, lifes meaning is to test the soul to see if it will give into temptaion, or except god, or both...God knows what is in your heart, and how u will live, but he is giving u another chance to cah ge with life...thats my preception of Life...a big test to see if u go up or down in the levels of exsistance...(Heaven, Hell)

OP5

[TINNY]

basically that's what believers of monotheistic religions think.

let's start with the creation of the universe.

 

the expanding universe would implicate a beginning. so the universe was created out of nothingness. for the big bang, it started from singularity.

 

give other ideas. then we could compare, and see how the universe developed, and ultimately predict our role in the progress of the universe.

[OpenMind5]

many people feel that certain people believe in god to fill that void of being meaningless...that it makes a perpuse for all of us...to help except death...I for one have felt and seen the work that i know is god...i am a believer...that how i feel...I think all this science stuff that i love so much...is to make us question...but the thing is...god's love is so simple...

 

Why is it that people can't acept god...(atheists)(_sorry about spelling if wrong) Why do u feel there is no god...then what do u beleive? -to all the atheists out there

 

And other religions? How do they identify to christanity? I know and few...and for those of u who think i am one minded and have can not think of other religions...NO NAMES...I have lots of friends with different religions...but those r two basic questions i am asking for now...

 

keep the post coming...

 

OP5

[sanctus]

Believing in God implies believing in something one can't proof (that's why you <u>believe</u> in god, you can't deduce his existence).

Believers say that the existing world is the proof, but that's not a proof that convinces atheists as it isn't a "scientific" argument.

I think this is one possible reason why people doesn't believe in god.

 

I for myself don't like to believe, but if I'm sincere I have to admit that I believe in something, something like I said earlier on this post. And I think I believe, as you said, in something just to fill the void and I do that unconsciously, because rationnally I know that this void can be filled also with culture for example instead of religion (for instance I suggest you to read "...and therefore spoce Golem" from Stanislav Lem he there developps a nice theory on humanity).

 

But the question

How do they identify to christanity?

is completely out of place, because that means (even if you've got friends of other religions) that you believe christianity is the only right religion. Saying

.but those r two basic questions i am asking for now...

, doesn't mean that you do not think that the best thing would be if the others would convert (to your religion as it seems to be the best one).

Writing this I notice another reason for which I don't believe in any religion, just because many of them believe to be the only one and then instead of helping living in a better world they create hatred.

 

One last reason for which i don't believe in any common godness is because all religions I know of seem to me made of hypocrites (not sll the believers, but too many):

I know skinheads (extreme right) that go to church

I know Bush says he is a believer, wouldn't that implie that he should love his ennemy and show mercy, for example while he was gouvenor of texas and on 120 death-sentences he didn't show mercy even once

doesn't the islamic religion also say to love your ennemy (Jesus is a prophet in their religion)

doesn't the buddishm say to respect nature?

and so on

 

I hope i anwered to your questions

[Freethinker]

Of course god exists. God is a mark left on underwear if someone does not wipe themselves completely. And I know that exists.

 

OK, I gave that reply to show why this question is just the fallacy of the complex question. It can not be answered without a much greater level of information being given.

 

The word "GOD" is used by so many different people to mean so many different things, that without providing a specific defintion of the term as it is intended here, no serious answer can be given. Even if a somehwat more detailed question is provided it could still be difficult to answer. e.g. if the question was:

 

"Does the Christian god exist?"

 

We would still have the problem that Christians can not agree amoungts themselves as to what this god might be. Yes there are some comonalities, but there are also differences. But I will add to the discussion as I can.

 

"Is there a god?"

 

As I stated in the beginning, yes my god exists. A good cleaning gets rid of the problem however.

 

"Is he the reason for existence?"

 

What makes you think there IS a "reason for existence"? I fail to see anything that indicates there may even be a singular "reason for existence". Just another Fallacy of Argumentation. Begging the Question. A priori thought process. I could ask "What is north of the north pole?" But just because I can assemble the words into a quesation form does not mean that the question makes any sense/ can be answered.

 

At best, each of us are on our own to invent a personal reason for our personal existence. Some want to blindly accept outside influence such as a god claim. I do not sell my existence that short. I will use the only life we KNOW we have to acheive as much positive as I can for this actual existence. I will not waste me time or efforts to support antiquated religious dogma which has ALWAYS been harmful for humanity.

 

" Is the bible correct?"

 

Is there a girl that wears a red cape on occasion? I am sure there is. And just as the Little Red Ridinghood fairytale has some basis of fact in it, that does not give the story any validity in total. So the only accurate answer to your question is "Yes it is correct in some parts, but it is filled with well identified errors and contradictions. Just as any other series of fairytales.

 

"Is god a he or a she?"

 

No, god is a stain. Prove me wrong.

 

"What are your views on god?"

 

If by god we mean the POV used by religions, god represents the worst of humanity. It has been the reason for more wars, death, killing, ignorace, promotion of hatred and prejudice, ... than any other single reasons.

 

There have been over 1,000 god(s, esses...) promted throught history. Today most people reject all but one or two of them. The same reasons are given for rejecting the other 999+ that I use to add one more name to the list.

 

"What experiences have you had? "

 

As a young person I was considered religious (Catholic). I even had what would be described as religious experience. As I got older and more educated I came to understand the physiology behind these and had similar experiences under any number of other situations. I ahve also learned about things like Optical Illusions and Magicans. These PROVE that a personal experience is of little use for determining reality. Our senese are easily fooled. Thus we show we are fools if we allow too much weight to be given to such experiences for making reasoned, logical evaluation to things.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Tim_Lou

God, is the ultimate, the source of everything.

 

god is light, god is power,

 

OK, there IS light and there IS power, so if this is what god is, then yes there is god,. (just like my def about a stain). But I do not see where this is of any value if we are talking about the typical monotheistic supernatural entity meaning of god.

 

for everything is part of god.

 

everything? so god is also hate, evil, cancer, torture, murder, infanticide, starvation, ...

 

people dont believe in god, is because there is no evidence that god exist.

 

but there is not really an evidence that prove god doesnt exist.

 

This is the argument fallacy of "shifting the burden of proof". Anyone that takes Philosophy 101 KNOWS it is impossible to prove non-existence. The statement does not even make sense.

 

Everything was created by the great Invisible Pink Unicorn. You will find much information on the IPU on the net. Now prove I am wrong.

 

OK, so the idea is that the IPU can not be "disproven" either. But just like ANY OTHER such claim. It is not up to you to DISprove the IPU's existence, it is up to ME, as the person making the claim of existence, to provide enough proof of the IPU's existence to make it worth even discussing it.

 

Thus when you ADMIT:

 

people dont believe in god, is because there is no evidence that god exist.

 

That is all ANYONE needs to outright reject even discussing the existence of something that lacks ANY valid evidence of it's existence.

 

everyone experience god,

 

Yes, but laundry soap takes care of it.

 

but the knowledge in our brains cannot admit it thus questions it and deny it.

 

too many internal contradictions in this statement to even begin to cover.

 

if you question god, god doesnt exist,

 

so your god is so weak that even bringing it into question destroys it? Hardly what I would consider a worthwhile god! What other failings does your god have?

 

god is the person that we blame

 

ah yes, the core of the god concept. Someone/thing to blame. As Bertrand Russell said, only one heart in a thousand is pure enough to be an Atheist. It is a matter of willingness to accept full personal resonsibility. As an Atheist, I accept full personal responsibility. Unlike a believer that is always ready to have:

 

god (as) the person that we blame

 

This world (the one we KNOW actually existws) would be a much better place if we all fully accepted personal resposibility, rather than find some god to blame.

 

...there must be something that is the sources of everything. since everything came out from something.

 

I simple course in Quantum Mechanics will help you shed this fallacy. (if ANY QM cource could be considered simple)

 

for those who dont believe anyone kind of god, the life became lifeless. there is nothing after life, everything came from something dead.... so, y not assume that there is a god and you will feel better about the world and have a different view point of it.

 

you have it exactly 180. when one accepts any of the various superstitions that present a god offering an afterlife, THIS life beconmes secondary. Believers must adopt the absolutely most selfish life approach of achieving PERSONAL salvation. to "assujme" anything else is responsible for things only allows you to live a less than full and complete life. I would never waste my life that way.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Tim_Lou

my believe of god is scientific, it has nothing to do w/ religious.

 

god is actually a Philosophy term, a hypothesis.

 

it is very scientific.

 

scientists had found very difficult to explain the world. why the world exist? why are we here?"

 

Science/ Scientists have developed a very extensive explaination of the world and HOW it exists.

 

WHY is a personal choice for those that wish to philosophize. It has nothing to do with REALITY.

 

However any claims to an answer CAN be approached via the Scientific Method.

 

a "theory" of god is made to explain verything more easily

 

and since the concept of a 3rd party external agent, a GOD, violates Ockham's Razor, it can be tossed out easily.

 

(just like other theories). everything seems to make sense w/ god.

 

NOTHING makes SENSE when you interject an external non-causal agent.

 

science is made for us to understand the world better.

 

Science is used to not only UNDERSTAND, but even more importantly to PREDICT.

 

while god is one of them that let us understand the world better.

 

Inserting a god into the equation STOPS all predictablity. It VIOLATES the very nature of Science.

 

Science helps us understand what will happen when a series of events/ causes are combined. Inserting a god requires ignoring ALL external causation with such nonsens as "god works in mysterious ways". Or any of the other garbage used to excuse events that happen contrary to wishes of those claiming a godly intervention.

 

Belief in a god requires the intentional rejection of Science and the Scientific Method.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: TINNY

the original text of the bible is the word of God, christians say. but bibles have been altered into different versions, each contradicting a little, or are different. so it is not relevant.

 

There is no such thing as:

 

the original text of the bible

 

We do not have a single scrap of paper which can be shown to be the original writings of any part of the bible. The closest we have is a scrap of paper the size of a postage stamp which is claimed to be part of a letter from Paul. Even that is questionable as it contains less than 5 full words.

 

 

the quran has no different versions.the ones found right now are the exact one from muhammad, although at that time it was not in the form of a book.

 

Verbal repitition is always unreliable. By admitting that the qur'an was first passed verbally, you acknowledge that error would be part of the process. It is claimed that muhammad's words were transcribed as he said them. To begin with it is quite certain that when the Prophet died there was no collected, collated, arranged body of material of his revelations. During the Caliphate of 'Uthman, it was found that this material was being recited by different groups of Muslims in different dialectal forms, thus errors introduced.

 

The Qur'an does not contradict with science.

 

"And verily We created the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, in six Days, and naught of weariness touched Us." (Qur'an 50:38) Same nonsense as the bible!

 

"he is created from a drop (of sperm) emitted-- Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs." (Qur'an 86:6-7) This to describe human reproduction. First of all, for sperm to originate between the back and the ribs would mean that it comes from the kidneys! Eleven centuries before Muhammad, the Greek physician Hippocrates theorized that sperm passed through the kidneys into the penis. For centuries this was an accepted (and incorrect) belief of the origins of sperm.

 

" And he followed a road; Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness." (Qur'an 18:85-86) This is a major scientific blunder in the Qur'an. A man walked until he reached the setting place of the sun, and saw it setting in a muddy spring. Ya OK then!