Freethinker Posted April 15, 2004 Report Posted April 15, 2004 Originally posted by: SlinkFreeI'd like to add a concept that is not related to terrorism, to the state of world affairs, nor any of the rhetoric that has been discussed in the last half of this forum. I'd like to offer a justification the G-d truly exists, Now let's try and get past the irrational fear aspects of the message and look at the rest of it. You say this is a "justification". I can only assume you are looking for "justifications" since you can't find any PROOF? not by letting you know what one religion or the other says, but by a simple practical experiment that every human being can do. Ah, so we are now going to have a scientific "experiment"? What happened to "justification"? Just for a second, close your eyes, and try to imaging NOTHING... can you do it? Actually, yes I can. I have been trained in meditation techniques that allow you to let your mind go blank. Achieve the void. Reach nirvana. Not think about elephants. Transend. The simple answer is no. Well it is SIMPLY WRONG! It is inconcievable for a human being to understand the concept of nothing, since there is always something. Ya, if it isn't one thing it's another... :-) In the same respect, it is impossible for human beings to understand the concept of 'Infinity', If it was "impossible for human beings to understand the concept of 'Infinity'", Physics (as a Science) would not exist. To understand what is beyond our linear existence is the search for truth While trying to "understand what is beyond our linear existence" might be ONE of "the search(s) for truth", it is far from the ONLY one. ... a search that has in one form or another, has taken over our existences. Actually I spend far more time searching for the TRUTH involving things I need to interact with IN "our linear existence". In my opinion, every aspect of humanity, can be attributed to this search for truth, for divine presence in each of our lives... music, art, culture, drugs, business, religion, are to name but a few of these aspects. Once you accept these core to a human being, you can see G-d everywhere... OK. I can agree with some of this. I agree that in order to think you actually SEE a god, you have to first ACCEPT uncritically. Otherwise, any critical evaluation of claimed proof falls apart. So yes, as you originally stated, it is NOT a PROOF, it is a "justification". You are struggling to "justify" accepting something that LACKS proof. And you seem to have found one that you don't want to look at critically enough so that you CAN justify it.
SlinkFree Posted April 15, 2004 Report Posted April 15, 2004 OK... i havent got this quote thing worked out yet, so bare with me. To be honest, i find it quite offensive that you would be facetious enough not to respect my right to refer to "G-d" the way i see fit. My religion aside, i expect that from someone with obvious intelect... such as yourself... would respect this fact, without the air of arrogance you have shown me. I believe in G-d, an almighty G-d, not a god... since talking about god (lower-case) in MY opinion does not refer to the One G-d. Now whether you think this a naive perspective is something i find pathetic... I AM NOT TRYING TO FOOL ANYONE, SO GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE, and respect the way i wish to communicate this word.
SlinkFree Posted April 15, 2004 Report Posted April 15, 2004 Quote "Ah, so we are now going to have a scientific "experiment"? What happened to "justification"? " Did i say anything about scientific?
Tim_Lou Posted April 15, 2004 Report Posted April 15, 2004 ok, religion does not equal blind faith.yes sometimes it does, but not all the time. as you said in the other topic, people having religions are about 80%. 80%! what a big number!so, you dont say that they just believe in god and do whatever god tell them. if these are really blind faith, why dont they all go murder somebody? numbers of murderers compare to people having religions is much lower. if they are all blind faith, why dont they all go out and murder somebody since god tells you to murder in the bible AS YOU SAID???
Tim_Lou Posted April 15, 2004 Report Posted April 15, 2004 slinkfree is a pretty good example of a religion that IS NOT blind faith.
SlinkFree Posted April 15, 2004 Report Posted April 15, 2004 Quote "So yes, as you originally stated, it is NOT a PROOF, it is a "justification". You are struggling to "justify" accepting something that LACKS proof. And you seem to have found one that you don't want to look at critically enough so that you CAN justify it. " You seem to think that i am not quite certain about the subjects i have offered you. Whether you choose to accept them or not is not my prerogative. I have studied enough of the religious and philosophy to be quite happy with my ideas. Thats not to say, that i am not very interested with the ideas of others. However, once again you show utter arrogance by seeming to be the authority on all things anti-religion, so i am struggling to take what you say seriously. Faith is exactly does exactly what is says on the tin... that is why it is called faith. Quote "If it was "impossible for human beings to understand the concept of 'Infinity'", Physics (as a Science) would not exist. " Science strives for truth, as do we all, but science cannot will only ever mirror religion, not prove it correct. Besides... this does not aswer my statement anyway... Quote "Actually, yes I can. I have been trained in meditation techniques that allow you to let your mind go blank. Achieve the void. Reach nirvana. Not think about elephants. Transend. " Well its a wonder that we are still engaged in conversation if you have already experienced trancsendence... Remind me again, are you not an athiest?
Tim_Lou Posted April 15, 2004 Report Posted April 15, 2004 and for blind faith, not only does it happen in religions, also in science. what i mean is that people believe in science w/out even knowing it!like math, in a right triangle, why is it that c^2=a^2+b^2 ask somebody, not many people know how to prove it.
SlinkFree Posted April 15, 2004 Report Posted April 15, 2004 Thankyou for your welcome Tim... its more than i got from the others!!
Tim_Lou Posted April 15, 2004 Report Posted April 15, 2004 "Actually, yes I can. I have been trained in meditation techniques that allow you to let your mind go blank. Achieve the void. Reach nirvana. Not think about elephants. Transend. " freethinker, you said your mind goes blank? how do you know if your mind goes blank when your mind is really blank? you wouldnt even know it when your mind goes blank, isn't it? since its blank! even when your sleeping, you still got dreams, isnt it? your mind is still working!
SlinkFree Posted April 15, 2004 Report Posted April 15, 2004 "You say this is a "justification". I can only assume you are looking for "justifications" since you can't find any PROOF? " Free Thinker... upon closer inspection... why is it that you feel the need to misinterpret words... I do not mean "Proof" otherwise, i would have said "proof"! Justification means: Something, for example, a reason or circumstance, that justifies an attitude. Proof however, means: Proof: evidence that serves to establish a fact or the truth about something Get YOUR facts right...
SlinkFree Posted April 15, 2004 Report Posted April 15, 2004 and for blind faith, not only does it happen in religions, also in science. "what i mean is that people believe in science w/out even knowing it! like math, in a right triangle, why is it that c^2=a^2+b^2 ask somebody, not many people know how to prove it. " Tim.. i agree. But in many ways, i think that the further science progresses, the further it points a finger at a design. For me, the world/universe is far to complex as to be chance. It is the search for truth that led me to this forum, it is the search for truth that propels me through this crazy life. In my opinion, the world would be an empty place without this drive, and without belief... as i said before, i think its a crazy when you look at our world and realise that in effect, whatever our religion, beliefs or mind-sets, we are all searching for the same thing... we are all searching for G-d.
geko Posted April 15, 2004 Report Posted April 15, 2004 Originally posted by: SlinkFree A) It is the search for truth that led me to this forum, it is the search for truth that propels me through this crazy life. In my opinion, the world would be an empty place without this drive..., B) ...and without belief... as i said before, i think its a crazy when you look at our world and realise that in effect, whatever our religion, beliefs or mind-sets, we are all searching for the same thing... we are all searching for G-d. Doesnt B contradict A? Anyway... Meditation is the art of not thinking. To not think, you just observe. The difficulty comes with the amount of time that you're able to do this for because judgement creeps in. There is nothing mystical about meditation.
SlinkFree Posted April 15, 2004 Report Posted April 15, 2004 "Doesnt B contradict A? " er... how exactly?
Freethinker Posted April 15, 2004 Report Posted April 15, 2004 Originally posted by: Tim_Lou"Actually, yes I can. I have been trained in meditation techniques that allow you to let your mind go blank. Achieve the void. Reach nirvana. Not think about elephants. Transend. " freethinker, you said your mind goes blank? how do you know if your mind goes blank when your mind is really blank? you wouldnt even know it when your mind goes blank, isn't it? since its blank! You are correct Tim. One can not know when their mind goes blank when it goes blank. One can only know that it went blank AFTER your done. It becomes obvious when you start to work consciously again. Does it mean one's brain "stops working"? Of course not. You die when your brain stops working completely. Autonomic functions are still controlled by the brain. But you CAN stop conscious thought, go BLANK. As with anything. It takes practice and understanding of the process. But it IS possible. I have experienced it twice that I know of.
Freethinker Posted April 15, 2004 Report Posted April 15, 2004 Originally posted by: SlinkFree"You say this is a "justification". I can only assume you are looking for "justifications" since you can't find any PROOF? " Free Thinker... upon closer inspection... why is it that you feel the need to misinterpret words... I do not mean "Proof" otherwise, i would have said "proof"! Justification means: Something, for example, a reason or circumstance, that justifies an attitude. Proof however, means: Proof: evidence that serves to establish a fact or the truth about something Get YOUR facts right... ??? That was exactly my point. You were providing JUSTIFICATION no PROOF. Further I stated that you were "looking for" (settling for) "justification" because PROOF did not exist.
Freethinker Posted April 15, 2004 Report Posted April 15, 2004 Originally posted by: SlinkFreeTim.. i agree. But in many ways, i think that the further science progresses, the further it points a finger at a design. Then you are not keeping up with SCIENCE. QM destroys the very ability for design. we are all searching for the same thing... we are all searching for G-d. Another false statement.
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