IrishEyes Posted April 16, 2004 Report Posted April 16, 2004 Ok, reading this again i do want to clarify before you burn me at the stake... It happened, and it's in the past. Yes, Freethinker, that's exactly the philosophy that enables Christians to consider murder. And no, I don't think it's right. But you know, that would apply to lots of things in this world. And I just don't think we should have to pay for every single mistake of our youth forever. What I mean by this is that the mentality of a LOT of people is that they can kill, (or lie, steal, whatever...) and it's ok, because they can go to mass and ask forgiveness, say their hail mary's and be ok, or just ask God to forgive them, and they're good. I do NOT agree that believing in God is a viable excuse for murder. I personally can not comprehend a good excuse for murder, but nobody has ever seriously harmed one of my children. THAT might change my mind. But I would still have to face LAW here on earth for that. I wouldn't expect someone to let me out of jail because I was a 'good Christian'. Personal belief in God does not release people from personal responsibility for their actions. Honestly, for ME (and I am only speaking for myself, not for 'all' Christians), it holds me to a higher personal standard of living. Not all people that claim to be Christians live as God wants them to live, just as not all people that claim to be atheists live as you do, Freethinker (I'm assuming that you do not beat your wife here, ok. This is a compliment to you, please don't assume otherwise).
SlinkFree Posted April 16, 2004 Report Posted April 16, 2004 "Why are you AFRAID to type the "o" in god? " The simple answer is that, not only do i believe G-d to not only be an infinate being, but one that I was created to serve to the best ability. The reference to G-d without the 'o' as you suggest is not quite a matter of fear, although in hindsight the bible states that you should "love" and "fear" G-d in the same sentence, rather it refers to G-d out of respect. Many major religions believe that human beings are created within the image of G-d, although human beings 'sin' and are therefore not perfect. G-d however, infinate and beyond physical comprehention, is perfect. !!!THIS I CANNOT PROVE!!! It boils down to faith... In many ways you are right... it is old and passe according to the ocularcentric and materialist world in which we live today, but it is the way i choose to refer to an entity of the highest possible worth, as i believe G-d is. I hope that clears it up...
SlinkFree Posted April 16, 2004 Report Posted April 16, 2004 Another reason is probably what you mean by being 'superstitious'. By writing the word god (G-d) down wholely, i know that however it is written, it will not last forever. G-d will last forever, hence being infinate, and the concept of forever going beyond physical comprehention. Are we worthy enough as finite beings to write down an infinate-refering word when we know it will not last forever? G-d is the way to refer to the infinate being, within physical boundaries. It has a beginning G, and and end d. the - refers to the metaphysicality of G-d...
Tim_Lou Posted April 16, 2004 Report Posted April 16, 2004 Freethinker, you dont really know why people are believing in god. 1. some people try to find the total turth of the world, but they fail. our knowledge is not perfect and many of the questions of life remain unanswer. people feel upset about it and they find "god" to provide them some of the answers. 2. being sad, helpless or some closely related poeple die. if these happen to you, sometimes it makes you feel worse to think about science. when someone has no money or big troubles, thinking about the real society may get him to suicide. when relatives die, the real world make you feel bad. "god" acts as a solution in these situation. 3. NDEs. majority numbers recognize the existence of god and start believing in god after NDEs (go online and see how many NDEs do not actually involve in god. some people just see a god figure and know it, some of them feel the light and love and recongnize as god. these are simply knowing. i dont know how it works, since im NOT an experiencer). it applies to scientists, non-christians, non-americans (other countries), little kids who dont even know what god is... you CANNOT judge whether NDE is fake or not, since you ARE NOT the experiencers and you CAN never know how they feel and see. the only "proofs" are the affects of all NDE experiencers...as you can see, the result is obvious.
Freethinker Posted April 16, 2004 Report Posted April 16, 2004 Originally posted by: Tim_LouFreethinker, you dont really know why people are believing in god. 1. some people try to find the total turth of the world, but they fail. ... people feel upset about it and they find "god" to provide them some of the answers. Boy you said a mouth full. A nd the rest of your excuses are equally accurate and troubling. Yes I agree that people"find god" because of any number of emotional and irrational reasons. Thus the way you get that monkey off your back is to stop thinking irrationally. And I already knew that.
Tim_Lou Posted April 16, 2004 Report Posted April 16, 2004 has anybody who you loved die and you feel really sad?? (i dont mean any meanness and i wish they are healthy.)
SlinkFree Posted April 16, 2004 Report Posted April 16, 2004 Quote "Yes I agree that people"find god" because of any number of emotional and irrational reasons. Thus the way you get that monkey off your back is to stop thinking irrationally. " but that is exactly the point Free Thinker... the way it was before Enlightenment and the Renaisance was that 'the soul' for example was given by G-d. After Enlightenment this was (rightly) rejected as authoritarian, so 'the self' replaced the soul. Since then the work of some of the worlds best scientists have illustrated that this 'self' is a product of the left hemisphere of the brain... the logical side, and the side that makes sense of the world around us... the right side, the side that imagination, intuition, and creativity comes from is largely not understood... The Irrational side. Moreover, even in Mathematics... the language of logic is beginning to find pockets of irrational mathematical laws that do not relate to the larger inter-connecting mathematical laws. Singularities. Quantum Physics is by far irrational... but it is beginning to show that the language of logic is echoing the language of religion! Look at the work of Gregory Chaitin, one of the chief mathematitians for IBM for reference. The point is that using logic to explain everything is somewhat naive, and even scientifically unfounded!
Tim_Lou Posted April 17, 2004 Report Posted April 17, 2004 well, thinking irrationally is actually as important as logical and irrational thinking should not stop. Albert Einstein's theory of relativity wouldn't have existed if he didnt think irrationally, isn't it? and logic is based on irrationality, without some crazy ideas, logic wouldnt've even existed.
SlinkFree Posted April 17, 2004 Report Posted April 17, 2004 more and more, science seems to point the finger towards design.
geko Posted April 17, 2004 Report Posted April 17, 2004 Originally posted by: SlinkFreemore and more, science seems to point the finger towards design. Would you mind explaining as i think it seems to point the other way?
geko Posted April 17, 2004 Report Posted April 17, 2004 Originally posted by: Tim_Louhas anybody who you loved die and you feel really sad?? Yes. And it saddens me that ill never see them again. It's also quite sobbering... not that i wouldnt give up this belief in a milli-second if i thought that the after-life would come true if i did.
geko Posted April 17, 2004 Report Posted April 17, 2004 Originally posted by: Tim_Lou 1. some people try to find the total turth of the world, but they fail. our knowledge is not perfect and many of the questions of life remain unanswer. people feel upset about it and they find "god" to provide them some of the answers. 2. being sad, helpless or some closely related poeple die. if these happen to you, sometimes it makes you feel worse to think about science. when someone has no money or big troubles, thinking about the real society may get him to suicide. when relatives die, the real world make you feel bad. "god" acts as a solution in these situation. ^^ not very critical of people i think Tim? People jumping to the answer they want to hear. They are prime examples of the observer influencing the observed.
geko Posted April 17, 2004 Report Posted April 17, 2004 The discovery of relativity was imaginative, not irrational. ........ i think, someone back me up?
geko Posted April 17, 2004 Report Posted April 17, 2004 Originally posted by: SlinkFreeBy writing the word god (G-d) down wholely... it will not last forever. G-d will last forever... and the concept of forever going beyond physical comprehention........... G-d is the way to refer to the infinate being, within physical boundaries. It has a beginning G, and and end d. the - refers to the metaphysicality of G-d... Sounds very native american slinkfree. Have you studied/paid attention to their customs?
SlinkFree Posted April 17, 2004 Report Posted April 17, 2004 Quote "Would you mind explaining as i think it seems to point the other way?" I thought I had skirted this idea in the paragraphs above... but anyway. These are some scientists, including Neurologists, psychiatrists, and mathematicians, whose work findings are beginning to reflect my point. As I stated Gregory Chaitin, Chief Maths dude for IBM says: Quote "The mind is mathematical. The thinking is logical. However, mathematics is starting to be forced to confront it's own limitations and is even underlining and prooving that there has to be more there!" (Soul Searching, C4, 11/03) Other examples worth checking out include Louis Sass, Clinical Psycologist, Rutgers Uni... Harold Bloom, Prof, Yale Uni... Johnjoe McFadden, Molecular Geneticist, Surrey Uni... Iian McGilcrist, Oxford Uni... I can find more sources if you would like.
geko Posted April 17, 2004 Report Posted April 17, 2004 Originally posted by: gekoThe discovery of relativity was imaginative, not irrational. ........ i think, someone back me up? Or correct me if i'm wrong
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