GOD

[Tormod]

This is important:

 

"by Freethinker:

Yes, it APPEARED before my post, but I have no control over where my post appears. Anything I post in reply will be put AT THE END of ALL OTHER POSTS."

 

Yes, these forums have settings which sets this as the default.

 

You can change this a little bit, if you go into your profile (look for the "profile button" on the forum menu above) and go to the "Personal Options" page. There is a drop dwon menu way down on that page, where you can choose how you want the threads to appear. Note that the threaded mode only creates a list of posts (in relation to each other) at the beginning of the thread, but it is still an alternative and much easier way to navigate the forums when threads get long.

 

Threads usually don't hit 300 messages so that this particular thread is being a bit difficult to read (and catch up on) is obvious.

 

Tormod

[Tormod]

Alternatively, you can just switch the view using the "Topic view" on the top of the page. AFAIK this only works for single threads.

 

The branched view might be better thatn the threaded when you have large topics with many posts, because you navigate through one post at a time while seeing a list of threads in the correct order on the top. But beware - it is slower than the normal view.

 

Tormod

[OpenMind5]

Ok, I know I have been out of teh disscussion for a while now, but I have been soooo busy with school and work, that i have very little time. I have tried to catch up and it is very hard. But I think we have started to come to teh conclution that science and religion don't mix to well.

 

Everyone in science has to have tangable proof that can be right there. But it seems that the belife in a god and there being a god is very different. My god is an ultimate being, the creator of all, and thats what I belive. I beleive in heaven and a hell. (eternal life) For some ppl it is hard to grasp the idea of size, infinet of finite. There are ppl who don't understand or can't grasp the idea of god. Lets try something. All this post is on is proof of god, lets ask, why don't we garsp god? And why do we? When I was younger, i would try to understand death un bed at night. Closing my eyes and plugging my ears, and hold my breath. To e surrounded in te drakness made me realise, there HAD to be more to life, and that is god. Maybe he is what i grab onto to make me feel like i have a meaning, but i rely on him. As some of u probily reliy on science.

 

There is no proof of my god, or no proof not to prove his exsistance. But this whole topic is nothign more than a huge rabbit hole, that goes very deep, into tradition and into the beginning of time itself. To me, god is here and very much exsists. I wish i could share more with you. To show u all the proof in the world. And to make you all understand. All I can say is, maybe this post is too long and getting no where fast. I guess that is up to Tormod, he is regualting this, and he can pull the plug.

 

Blessed be.

OP5

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: OpenMindFiveThere are ppl who don't understand or can't grasp the idea of god. Lets try something. All this post is on is proof of god, lets ask, why don't we garsp god?

 

Your attempt at insult aside. It is not a question of those that fail to blindly accept something that believers admit they fail to be able to prove in any way, not being able to "understand" or "grasp". We have no trouble "understanding" or "grasping" the concept of any of the thousands of god myths, it is our desire to live our lives based on more than something we can ONLY grasp, but on something we can PROVE. Something that we can PROVE has something to do with REALITY.

 

Can you GRASP that?

 

To e surrounded in te drakness made me realise, there HAD to be more to life, and that is god.

 

Classic example of complete lack of reasoning.

 

Maybe he is what i grab onto to make me feel like i have a meaning, but i rely on him.

 

Classic example of addiction. Alchoholics, drug users, all same the same thing.

 

As some of u probily reliy on science.

 

People rely on science to allow them to most accurately predict what will happen next. Not as a crutch to "grab onto".

 

There is no proof of my god,

 

Thus it is extreme ignorance to claim it exists.

 

or no proof not to prove his exsistance.

 

PULLLLEEESSSSE! Believers will never lose their ignorace enough to stop using this utter display of irrationality no matter how many times the complete fallacy of it is shown.

 

But this whole topic is nothign more than a huge rabbit hole, that goes very deep, into tradition and into the beginning of time itself.

It is surface and shallow. Just as the thought process (or complete lack there of) displayed in trying to justify it.

 

Blessed be.

 

Ya, merry meat.

[SlinkFree]

your a prat

[Sergey Victorovich]

Now, you see, the koran is, of course, Arabic. It is the Arabic bible; somewhere along the line of Assyria, it was edited. It is <u>not</u> the same as the Bible we know more commonly. The koran,as a matter of fact, could be the reason Osama Binladin bombed America. You see, in the koran it states in one point "kill all infidels". Therefore it altogether could be a completely different religion.

[Sergey Victorovich]

If you believe that all people come from something dead; then you are, in turn, agreeing with the principle of reincarnation.

[Sergey Victorovich]

OpenMindFive, I agree with you in the meaning of life IS to serve God; for I too am a Christian. But, I disagree about life. Life is all we have. As it says in the Bible "So go eat your food and enjoy it; drink your wine and be happy, because that is what God wants you to do. Put on nice clothes and make yourself look good. Enjoy life with the wife you love. Enjoy all the useless days of this rseless life God has given you here on earth, because it is all you have. So enjoy the work you do here on earth. Whatever work you do, do your best, because you are going to the grave, where there is no working, no planning, no knowledge, and no wisdom"-Ecclesiastes 9:7,8,9,10. Life is only what God the almighty gives us. What we do on earth is our choice. People can choose to accept God and His plan of Salvation, or we can refuse it. But you must be very obstinate to hide from God. He will hunt you down because He loves you.

"I fled from Him. I fled down the years, and down the months; and in the midst of tears, I hid from him."

[geko]

Originally posted by: Sergey Victorovich

You see, in the koran it states in one point "kill all infidels". Therefore it altogether could be a completely different religion.

 

 

'Kill' could be an analogy (or a wrong interpretation), in either case it seems to say 'worship the one true god', which is highly reminiscent of christianity. In fact, maybe all of these religions should voice it clearly and state "follow Nazism"? .....ok, i could be wrong.

 

 

 

"OpenMindFive, I agree with you in the meaning of life IS to serve God; for I too am a Christian. But, I disagree about life. Life is all we have. As it says in the Bible "So go eat your food and enjoy it; drink your wine and be happy, because that is what God wants you to do. Put on nice clothes and make yourself look good."

 

 

This is narcissism, forbidden in christianity.

 

 

 

"If you believe that all people come from something dead; then you are, in turn, agreeing with the principle of reincarnation."

 

 

So, because we're made of star-dust our [consciousness?] will [enter?] and become [volitional of?] a different combination of the star-dust at a later date?

[Freethinker]

Haven't heard from ole riledupj for a while, Guess he quit trying to find something that was actually PROOF. And rather than admit it, left.

 

But I just had to hunt this post down to provide an update.

 

Originally posted by: rileyj

hey freethinker is it possible to shorten your replys

 

also,

 

"Good people will always do good things

 

bad people will always do bad things

 

it takes religion to make good people do really bad things"

 

it can also make bad people do good

 

example : the many people that turned themselves in for crimes like murder after they got away with it ,just because they saw "the passion".

 

Turns out that the ONE person that admitted to murder after seeing the Passion, when his court date finally came...

 

PLEADED INNOCENT!

 

What a joke!

 

I'll bet the Christian fundies didn't bother to promote THIS to all the people they promoted the guy's earlier honesty to.

 

So once more we see that Christianity is not only a good philosophy for murderers, but also liars.

[IrishEyes]

So once more we see that Christianity is not only a good philosophy for murderers, but also liars.

 

You burned me a few weeks back for mentioning my ex was abusive and an atheist, saying I was trying to suggest that ALL atheists are abusive. Yet here you make a similar type of claim against Christianity. No, you don't say *all* Chrisitians, but it's more your attitude. Why is it so difficult for you to admit that not all Christians are as bad as your ex? I readily admitted that my atheist ex was not representative of ALL atheists, yet you repeatedly make statements that fan the flames of hatred towards Christianity. Why?

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: IrishEyes

So once more we see that Christianity is not only a good philosophy for murderers, but also liars.

 

You burned me a few weeks back for mentioning my ex was abusive and an atheist, saying I was trying to suggest that ALL atheists are abusive. Yet here you make a similar type of claim against Christianity. No, you don't say *all* Chrisitians, but it's more your attitude. Why is it so difficult for you to admit that not all Christians are as bad as your ex? I readily admitted that my atheist ex was not representative of ALL atheists,

 

My comments are made based on FACTUAL STATISTICS. I have published them at this site. I have shown PROOF that people that are convicted of murder are not only significantly statistically more likely to be Christian in the US, but are virtually the ONLY ones that are convicted of murder in the US. The same is shown to be true for crimes involving EVERYTHING, including illegal dishonesty, (lying which violates criminal law).

 

The anecdotal account of a person that confessed to murder after seeing "The Passion" was used to counter my FACTUAL statistics. It was used to attempt to show that a Christian belief promoted honesty, positive morals. The original poster seemed this example could override the massive statistical evidence to the contrary.

 

Thus when the REALITY of this anecdotal example developed, it seemed appropriate to update the info on the example for our discussion. The ultimate reality of Christianity as a philosophy which shows a direct correlation with acceptance of illegal and immoral actions as acceptable responses to personal situations was re-inforced by the ultimate outcome of the specific example. This has nothing to do with either your nor my ex.

 

yet you repeatedly make statements that fan the flames of hatred towards Christianity. Why?

 

I make FACTUAL presentations of the REALITY of the application of Christianity to society. That the obvious relationship is a highly negative one is the logical conclusion reached based on those FACTS. It has nothing to do with my personal feelings. I will admit that my willingness to accumulate the specific FACTS and present them IS based on my personal opinions. But then my personal opinions are based on having been exposed to these FACTS in the first place. If the FACTS were not there, my personal opinion would not be what it is. Nor would the ultimate reality of the application of Christianity to society be seen in the negative light it is when the FACTS are displayed.

 

IOW don't blame ME for the FACTUAL reality of Christianity as a negative influence in society.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Sergey Victorovich

If you believe that all people come from something dead; then you are, in turn, agreeing with the principle of reincarnation.

 

REincarnation is the idea that a single LIVING being goes thru multiple existences.

 

In what way does belief in reincarnation of a LIVING entity show a connection with "people come(ing) from something dead"?

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Sergey VictorovichPeople can choose to accept God and His plan of Salvation, or we can refuse it.

 

You really should actually RED the bible instead of PRETENDING to know what it says. The bible says that the names of those that will be saved is already written in the book of life, from the begining of time. Thus whether we as individuals will ultimately accept/ beleive/ be saved, is predetermined. We as individuals have no choice in the matter.

 

Further that god will intentionally harden the heart of these predetermined people so they will believe the intentional lies god will provide to them so they do not become believers.

 

Thus, according to the bible, the reason I am not a believer is because your god decided at the beginning of time that I would not. Therefore there is not a single thing you or I can do to change it. I have been created from the beginning of time intentionally by your (LOVING?) god to be punished for eternity, for something I have no control over.

 

Some monster you worship!

[alexander]

well there was an article in Subscribe.ru's newsletter about one Russian scientist who proved that there is point in space where all the eneries collide, by that proving the possibility of God's existance.

I personally do not believe that God is a male or female, i don't even think that god is a materialistic thing, the two theories that i have are that god is either a form of an undiscovered energy, or it is a force, but not the force that acts on you phisically, instead its a force that acts on you mentally. To an extent i think that God doesn't actually act on us at all, i think that he only supervises us, looks over, but does not make our descisions or dreams come true, so he may hear us, but we might never in our lifetime be able to hear him (untill we progress to our next state)...

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: alex

well there was an article in Subscribe.ru's newsletter about one Russian scientist who proved that there is point in space where all the eneries collide, by that proving the possibility of God's existance.

 

I personally do not believe that God is a male or female, i don't even think that god is a materialistic thing, the two theories that i have are that god is either a form of an undiscovered energy, or it is a force, but not the force that acts on you phisically, instead its a force that acts on you mentally. To an extent i think that God doesn't actually act on us at all, i think that he only supervises us, looks over, but does not make our descisions or dreams come true, so he may hear us, but we might never in our lifetime be able to hear him (untill we progress to our next state)...

 

OK, you reject any anthropomorphic gender assignment to your god myth. In fact you reject ANY "materialistic thing" as an element of your god. Yet if there is NO "materialistic thing" for your god myth, how does your god then interact with our physical existence, OUR "materialistic thing"? If your god does not have ANY materialistic/ physical component, it would not be able to interact with OUR physical component.

 

You contradict yourself however when you add:

 

god is either a form of an undiscovered energy, or it is a force,

 

Both of these REQUIRE a PHYSICAL interaction. "energy" is a PHYSICAL component. Just a "force" implies PHYSICAL interaction.

 

Which is then (re)contradicted with:

 

To an extent i think that God doesn't actually act on us at all

 

So much for a physical component/ interaction/ force/ energy....

 

which then becomes gender specific:

 

i think that he only supervises us

then to

so he may hear us,

back to a physical component. SOUND (to HEAR) is made up of physical energy.

 

untill we progress to our next state

 

Which state is that? Certainly not Ohio!

 

It is obvious you are trying to come to terms with how concepts derived from antiquated superstitions fit into the REAL world. You can spend a lot of time and energy trying to invent some new way of forcing these superstitious concepts into our physical reality. Or you can spend the same time and energy finding out what our actual physical reality is. Start by rejecting anything that is self contradictory.

 

I personally do not believe that God is a male or female

contradicts

i think that he only supervises us

 

just as

i don't even think that god is a materialistic thing

is contradicted by

god is either a form of an undiscovered energy, or it is a force

 

This makes it easy for a person to give a quick once over of their own views.

 

Keep working at it. You have a good start. Check into how to construct a logical argument. Learn about argument fallacies.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: IrishEyes

So once more we see that Christianity is not only a good philosophy for murderers, but also liars.

 

...yet you repeatedly make statements that fan the flames of hatred towards Christianity. Why?

 

CNN - Hundreds slaughtered in religious fighting

 

A Nigerian Christian leader said on Thursday the killing of hundreds of Muslims by Christian militia in the town of Yelwa on Sunday was the product of "a state of war" between the two faiths in Africa's most populous nation... religious leaders and academics said it fed an already strong trend of religious hatred in the impoverished oil exporting country... Religious violence has killed at least 5,000 people since 2000, ... On Sunday, hundreds of Christian Tarok militia invaded the town of Yelwa, sealed off roads to town with felled trees, and killed hundreds of Fulani with machine guns and machetes.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/africa/05/06/religion.nigeria.reut/