What Is Gravity?

[OverUnityDeviceUAP]

Gravity is the condensation of fluid space evolving over time.

Edited December 25, 2019 by OverUnityDeviceUAP

[hazelm]

Okay, Hazel here is the simple explanation of gravity basically gravity is the curving of space that moves things around the curve it creates.

 

 

 

 

Completely agree with you. C is a constant in the universe, I fought Farsight about this when we were discussing Penrose's theories and the Solutions for General Relativity for Black Holes (http://www.scienceforums.com/topic/36286-penrose-process-discuss/), To think that the speed of light is variable is crackpottery, even gravity travels at C.

Victor, thanks for that diagram.  I have seen it many a time and just now realized something.  I have read the universe is flat and I have read the universe is curved.  I kept asking "all right, which is it?"   Plain as day all of a sudden  A flat universe with "gravity pockets"  (to get creative).  Sometimes, it takes a while.  So, the universe as a whole is flat with "space-curves" embedded into it by body masses.  Right?"

[OverUnityDeviceUAP]

Victor, thanks for that diagram. I have seen it many a time and just now realized something. I have read the universe is flat and I have read the universe is curved. I kept asking "all right, which is it?" Plain as day all of a sudden A flat universe with "gravity pockets" (to get creative). Sometimes, it takes a while. So, the universe as a whole is flat with "space-curves" embedded into it by body masses. Right?"

I would agree. The way I see it, in the 3rd dimension, you have an infinite cube of white (flat space) with an infinite number of evenly dispersed black spheres in it (curved space embedded within), like a block of swiss cheese, halfway inbetween each sphere are 8 spheres 1/3rd the size of the originals, half way inbetween those are 64 spheres 1/9th of the size of the original ad infinitum. Now is a negative 3 dimensions a white cube is equivalent to a black sphere, and vice versa. Now in the 6th dimension, what happens when a positive meets a negative? The quantum foam eraser, yet as these black sphere volumes cancel out what cube volumes the space between them disappears and the black spheres come together and grow in an endless cycle of cannabilization. 6 dimensions turn into 4.6273747 dimensions in some areas, or 5.8274590 dimensions in others.

 

And that is what reality acts like in my model. You can call it cylindrical fractal multiverse theory, but I calling it deletarious everted bi-brane (DEB) theory instead.

Edited December 25, 2019 by OverUnityDeviceUAP

[Vmedvil2]

Victor, thanks for that diagram.  I have seen it many a time and just now realized something.  I have read the universe is flat and I have read the universe is curved.  I kept asking "all right, which is it?"   Plain as day all of a sudden  A flat universe with "gravity pockets"  (to get creative).  Sometimes, it takes a while.  So, the universe as a whole is flat with "space-curves" embedded into it by body masses.  Right?"

Exactly.

 

"Gravity is the curvature of spacetime,Gravity is the curvature of the universe, caused by massive bodies, which determines the path that objects travel. That curvature is dynamical, moving as those objects move."

 

 

Math Description saying the same thing.

 

Nope, check shapiro delay for gravitational and radiation waves. Turns out the delay is not equal.

 

That is due to time changing which also would mean space changing as light passes through another gravitational field which is the same as space changing as time and space are like talking about the same thing within its own reference frame the speed of light is still C, C doesn't still change but rather the space-time.

 

"The Shapiro delay is the extra time delay light experiences by travelling past a massive object due to general relativistic time dilation."

 

It is interesting to me dubbel that you think that frame dragging and all the general relativistic effects are true but think that the speed of light is variable, the medium is variable being time-space not the speed of light.

Edited December 26, 2019 by VictorMedvil

[OverUnityDeviceUAP]

In my strings all quanta are technically the same size, but exist at different framerates but we observe only with one framerate, enter the range of spectroscopy, a photon has a higher wavelength. The lower the framerate the more contracted the ether of spacetime, or cymatically the louder the noise however gravity carries mass at the same wavelength as redshift, no matter the medium, light is different in that it blueshifts, i.e. cherenkov. Energy and mass are interchangeable, they are both made out of the same thing, space, this space can stretch into energy or contract into mass, currently only the opposite can occur but that was different in the earlier cosmos.

Edited December 26, 2019 by OverUnityDeviceUAP

[hazelm]

The Shapiro effect is interesting, depending on what you google, you get different hits. It is argued it is an invalid or nonsense interpretation of relativity, and it is argued it is correct and the vector value of c does vary whilst the scalar value remains a constant.

 

After a bit of googling all sides of the argument, I came up with this link, which seems to address the crux of the problem and worryingly also come down on the side of variable c. http://physicsdetective.com/the-speed-of-light/

 

Also from the same web site especially for Hazel "how gravity works" without loads of scary math :) http://physicsdetective.com/how-gravity-works/

You are so right.  Loads of scary math.  It becomes impossible to follow a story if the math is unintelligible.  :-)

[hazelm]

Just remember the earth sucks!.

Of course.  That is why we are all headed for Pern.  Forgetting about Red Rain, naturally.

 

Back to  gravity now that I've placed light - even if it does not relate to gravity - how does gravity get speed?  To where is it speeding?

[OverUnityDeviceUAP]

Of course. That is why we are all headed for Pern. Forgetting about Red Rain, naturally.

 

Back to gravity now that I've placed light - even if it does not relate to gravity - how does gravity get speed? To where is it speeding?

Gravity is just cause and effect, it's limited to the length of the quantum object. Think knocking down a stack of dominoes, this carries from one cell or quanta to the next at the same rate as t=0 (the speed of light in a vacuum), if t=1 is n-1/n (where the ratio is multiplied by c), n being the number of Planck volumes that fit inside your cmb. Which should be equal to the Planck density which is some 10^96 volumes here.

 

Like I said mass is just the shortening of the wavelength making one quantum object louder than the other, if you want to look at the universe from a sonic perspective as opposed to a hydrodynamic/fluidic perspective. Just because one horn is louder than another, doesn't mean the speed of sound changes.

Edited December 26, 2019 by OverUnityDeviceUAP

[OverUnityDeviceUAP]

It is a prediction of relativity. Which was confirmed when https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/why-does-gravity-travel-at-the-speed-of-light

 

"The dead cores of two stars collided 130 million years ago in a galaxy somewhat far away.

The collision was so extreme that it caused a wrinkle in space-time — a gravitational wave. That gravitational wave and the light from the stellar explosion traveled together across the cosmos. They arrived at Earth simultaneously at 6:41 a.m. Eastern on August 17."

 

The gravitational waves radiated away from the black hole merger at the same time as the light, so must have been travelling at the same speed.

 

Actually that article is omitting the fact that the gravity wave that tripped the proverbial atomic wire that is the LIGO's nano beam arrived slightly before the light.

 

Insteresting to note that the gw of a black hole merger decreases our orbital distance from the sun by the length of a proton.

Edited December 27, 2019 by OverUnityDeviceUAP

[hazelm]

 

It is a prediction of relativity. Which was confirmed when https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/why-does-gravity-travel-at-the-speed-of-light

 

"The dead cores of two stars collided 130 million years ago in a galaxy somewhat far away.

The collision was so extreme that it caused a wrinkle in space-time — a gravitational wave. That gravitational wave and the light from the stellar explosion traveled together across the cosmos. They arrived at Earth simultaneously at 6:41 a.m. Eastern on August 17."

 

The gravitational waves radiated away from the black hole merger at the same time as the light, so must have been travelling at the same speed. 

 

Oh, for goodness sake!  A wrinkle in space-time?  This may not relate but do you know the book:  A Wrinkle in Time?  (L'Engle)  Actually a three-book story.   As briefly as possible.  A scientist had taken a space trip and was not able to return home.  His two children managed to pass through a wrinkle in time and rescue him.

 

 

Now I must go back and re-read that book while I study what you have written.  Just to see if L'Engle was building SciFi onto a known science.  Meanwhile thank you for the explanation.  It will take a while to absorb but I am "seeing" an echo - something like what sound does as a plane or a vehicle on the road passes by.  A similarity to that maybe? 

[hazelm]

Actually that article is omitting the fact that the gravity wave that tripped the proverbial atomic wire that is the LIGO's nano beam arrived slightly before the light.

 

Insteresting to note that the gw of a black hole merger decreases our orbital distance from the sun by the length of a proton.

Little technicalities?  :-)

[Dubbelosix]

Exactly.

 

"Gravity is the curvature of spacetime,Gravity is the curvature of the universe, caused by massive bodies, which determines the path that objects travel. That curvature is dynamical, moving as those objects move."

 

 

Math Description saying the same thing.

 

 

That is due to time changing which also would mean space changing as light passes through another gravitational field which is the same as space changing as time and space are like talking about the same thing within its own reference frame the speed of light is still C, C doesn't still change but rather the space-time.

 

"The Shapiro delay is the extra time delay light experiences by travelling past a massive object due to general relativistic time dilation."

 

It is interesting to me dubbel that you think that frame dragging and all the general relativistic effects are true but think that the speed of light is variable, the medium is variable being time-space not the speed of light.

 

I'm just going by what Einstein realized, that the speed of light is not spatially constant. To have a true constant theory of light, would seem to ignore the spatial variability. Moreover I am pushed towards the gravitational aether in which the medium acts fluidlike in nature, these kinds of theories do lead to variability of the speed of light also. 

[Farsight]

Variable speed of light theories are none mainstream....

This is why Hazel doesn't understand gravity. Einstein's explanation is now dismissed as non-mainstream by people who have never read the Einstein digital papers, and who don't know how gravity works. Here's some more Einstein quotes.   

 

1912: “On the other hand I am of the view that the principle of the constancy of the velocity of light can be maintained only insofar as one restricts oneself to spatio-temporal regions of constant gravitational potential”.

1913: “I arrived at the result that the velocity of light is not to be regarded as independent of the gravitational potential. Thus the principle of the constancy of the velocity of light is incompatible with the equivalence hypothesis”.

1914: “In the case where we drop the postulate of the constancy of the velocity of light, there exists, a priori, no privileged coordinate systems.”

1915: “the writer of these lines is of the opinion that the theory of relativity is still in need of generalization, in the sense that the principle of the constancy of the velocity of light is to be abandoned”.

1916: “In the second place our result shows that, according to the general theory of relativity, the law of the constancy of the velocity of light in vacuo, which constitutes one of the two fundamental assumptions in the special theory of relativity and to which we have already frequently referred, cannot claim any unlimited validity”.

1920: “Second, this consequence shows that the law of the constancy of the speed of light no longer holds, according to the general theory of relativity, in spaces that have gravitational fields. As a simple geometric consideration shows, the curvature of light rays occurs only in spaces where the speed of light is spatially variable”.

 

Somebody mention the Shapiro delay. See his paper and note this: "Because, according to the general theory, the speed of a light wave depends on the strength of the gravitational potential along its path":

 

 

Light curves like any wave curves when the wave speed varies. It's the same for sonar:

 

Image from FAS and the US Navy, see course ES310 chapter 20

 

Once you know why light curves, you apply the wave nature of matter then you know why matter falls down. It isn't because spacetime is curved. That's a myth. Spacetime curvature relates to the tidal force, not the force fo gravity. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by Farsight

[OverUnityDeviceUAP]

Little technicalities?  :-)

But they make all the difference. The only reason a GW wave can be detected by the LIGO tripwire nanolaser is because space contracts by the length equivalent of the duration of a proton's wavefunction. This length contraction and time dilation is also why it takes light slightly longer to reach us than gravity.

[Farsight]

I am open to most theories. You will note that 006 caused me to do a bit of investigation into variable light speed as apparently demonstrated by the Shapiro effect, and I posted a link explaining how light speed is calculated to be constant even though as you may be correctly claiming it is not in a gravitational reference frame.

 

Here is the link I posted to save you reading the previous page http://physicsdetect...speed-of-light/ This is the simplest explanation I came up with. You will note Hazel doesnt like complicated math, so your attempts at explaining gravity perhaps were not that helpful. You will also note the link uses the same graphic you posted.

 

What part of the second link I posted do you disagree with ? Here is that one also http://physicsdetective.com/how-gravity-works/

I wasn't being antagonistic towards you Flummoxed. I was trying to explain how things are. I wrote the articles on the speed of light and how gravity works. 

 

 

 

Edit on second glance the how gravity works link might be a bit confusing, gravity sucks is simpler.

It's simpler, but it's wrong. A gravitational field is akin to a pressure gradient in space.  

 

Incidentally viewing the apparent curvature of space time as either an inflow of space towards matter, or a reduction in the permeability of space around matter or even in degrees of entanglement is also interesting to look at.

There is no inflow of space. A gravitational field is a place where space is non-uniform. 

 

 

Rather than looking at geometries that can explain trajectories, looking at the properties of space that could cause the trajectories to change is intriguing. Numerous gravitational theories exist, mainstream and theoretical.

Both Einstein and Newton talked about properties of space and light curving due to a refraction.   

Edited December 28, 2019 by Farsight

[Vmedvil2]

I wasn't being antagonistic towards you Flummoxed. I was trying to explain how things are. I wrote the articles on the speed of light and how gravity works. 

 

 

 

It's simpler, but it's wrong. A gravitational field is akin to a pressure gradient in space.  

 

There is no inflow of space. A gravitational field is a place where space is non-uniform. 

 

 

Both Einstein and Newton talked about properties of space and light curving due to a refraction.  

 

Yes Newton and Einstein believed in the curving of light however to say they believed in a variable speed of light is silly as General Relativity and Special Relativity mathematically are structured with the absolute need for a constant speed of light, Einstein may have said those things but I believe you are taking them out of context. Mathematically what you are saying about General and Special Relativity do not make sense once again they say that space and time are the variable substances not the speed of light. The common thought experiment in special relativity is that you take two objects moving at different velocities and both will see the speed of light as the same despite their movement because in any space-time C is constant even when time dilation and length contract come into the picture the speed of light is constant even in two different reference frames. Gravity is no different than length contract but in a direction which changes the geodesic of space-time thus light still travels the same speed even in a gravitational field though the light may be curved into a direction along a shrunken section of time-space following the geodesic because even from that reference frame is C still C. Light is always the Null Geodesic in every space which is why it is always constant.

 

Link about Geodesics in a pretty simple format = http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/~cblake/Class7_Geodesics.pdf

Edited December 29, 2019 by VictorMedvil

[hazelm]

Geodesics.  The routes airlines like to be assigned.  Right?  But airlines use a different word for these routes, don't they?  I cannot recall it.

 

This is Class 7 - where are 1-6?  I see no way to start at the beginning.

 

And, if that enough, who is C Blake - other than, I thini, Australian.

 

Thanks for this.