Pedophiles....

[Celeste]

Originally Posted by Reibu

The issue is the labeling of all prepubescent sexual behavior as a crime. The last I heard nonconsensual sexual contact is a crime regardless of the age of the victim. Minors are unable to give consent. If we strictly interpret the law that a child would have no sexual experiences at all until they are 16 and that is not realistic.

 

No, that wasn't the issue. It was pedophilia, the paraphilia of being sexually attracted primarily or exclusively to prepubescent

(13 years or younger) children.

 

Diagnostic criteria for Pedophilia:

* Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children, age 13 years or younger.

* The person has acted on these urges, or the sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty.

* The person is at least age 16 years and at least 5 years older than the child or children in Criterion A.

Note: Do not include an individual in late adolescence involved in an ongoing sexual relationship with a 12 or 13-year-old.

 

Originally Posted by Reibu

Why did I not feel this way? Could it be that you statistics are slanted to the most extreme examples. I would say that less than one percent of child sexual interaction is reported.

 

I don't know Reibu. I would hate to even speculate. However, Your one of a kind so far.

70% of 4500 victims is probably slanted on the low side.

Of course there is no way of knowing for sure, but thanks to the increased awareness levels in schools, homes, and even between prepubescent children, estimates of reported sexual abuses are nearing 40% and climbing every year according to officials.

 

Bureau of Justice Statistics:

67% of all victims of sexual assault reported to law enforcement agencies were juveniles.

34% of all victims were under age 12.

 

Originally Posted by Celeste

While some might argue that psychological dysfunction on the part of sexual abuse victims is caused by negative familial or societal attitudes, such as anti-sexual restrictions imposed upon children by adults/parents, police, 'moral crusaders, the church, the law, and the state, multipe studies actually prove that although the negative responses seemed to aggravate the dysfunction, positive responses did not ameliorate the trauma or long term psychological dysfunction of pedophile victims.

 

Originally Posted by Reibu

Not in the extreme cases that would be criminal even if the victum was an adult. Your problem is there is not distinction between two kids playing doctor and sexualy motivated murder.

 

Wrong. The 45 separate studies on a total of 4500 victims lasted over a decade and include ONLY pedophilia/adult-child sex cases. Read the very last 2 words, *pedophile victims*. Obviously two children playing doctor (children being the key word) has nothing to do with pedophilia.. and sexually motivated murder is an entirely different subject.

 

Originally Posted by Reibu

I am beginning to wonder if your rather extreme and vocal position is not a function of you own perceived guilt in having let this abuse occur and not had a relationship with you daughter in which she would tell you.

 

This statement is based on unfair and unfounded assumptions. The fact is Reibu, that my 5 year old daughter told me within 15 mins after I arrived home from a business trip.

 

Originally Posted by Reibu

Obviously you daughter was raped and that is a crime regardless of her age. If she is date raped at age 18 will it be less of a crime? I hope you parental powers have improved to the point that you can now protect her from this crime. I doubt that is the case if all you have done is rage and flame about pedophiles in general.

 

More insults Reibu and once again, your wrong. My 5 year old daughter was NOT raped by a rapist. She was molested and violated by a 30 year old man, a PEDOPHILE, a man I had known for years.

 

While he molested her, he told her how special she was and that she was his favorite of all. He repeatedly told her that he LOVED her. He told her the pain she was feeling was ok, cuz she's a big girl.

After he had his way with her, he told her mommy wouldn't love her anymore if she knew.

In his statement to the police, he stated that he didn't do anything wrong, he had only wanted to show my child the depth of his love.

Sound familiar?

 

How could anyone who has fond memories of being molested pretend to even remotely understand. How could you know the pain or heartache? How could you justify a grown man or womens desires that ended with any childs torment. As a parent, how can you justify it Reibu?

 

Reibu, when I posted my thoughts on this subject, I posted from a personal perspective gained through personal experiences and knowledge.

Don't presume that I am not schooled on the subject. I know all to well about pedophillia and my daughter knows more then anyone should ever have to.

 

http://www.thespectrum.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060321/NEWS01/603210303/1002

This is my ex-brother in law, a pedophile and rapist. One of Utahs most wanted right now.

Poor guy only wanted to show his loving ways by committing sodomy on a child with whom he had a special relationship of trust..

 

I assure you Reibu, the child will not have fond memories and will suffer the effects for a lifetime.

[Rebiu]

OK. You see it as a positive experience. People who spent years in prison camps and suffered torture sometimes look back on that as a positive experience too, something that most people find difficult to believe. So your personal dealings with your experience is not a basis for judging the the right and wrong of the action. For a 16 year old to engage in sexual acts with a for year old is reprehensible. It doesn't matter that she was good at it or that it was enjoyed. It is wrong. If this was in the US it was a crime too. And it is easy to believe that you were not th only partner she had. Was the experience the same for the others? There is no relativism. Any sexual act with a four year old is off base. And 4 year olds engaging in sexual acts should be redireced toward other acts. Find something different to do.

I agree with you. I do not agree with the severity of your reaction though.

 

Again. If a 14 year old is propositioning a 6 year old this is just dead wrong. If ANYONE is propositioning a 4 or six year old it is dead wrong. I don't give a damn about culture or any other "contributing factor".

I would have to say this behavior should be curtailed and prevented as well.

 

This is common among kids of that age who are near the same age. Typically out of anitomical curiosity. It is very normal but usually ends because girls are gross.

HaHa.

 

Let him know that it is not bad, but appropriate. Talk to the other kid's parents about your suspicions so you both can handle this in the same fashion if it is true. If they are the same age this is typical discovery that kids go through. And it happens about the time kids learn to keep secrets.

 

Bill

The problem is the extreme reaction people have prevents rational discussion. People start talking about killing, calling the police and involving SRS.

[Rebiu]

There you've gone and proven my point: You were molested and your reaction is to think that it is "normal" as a defensive mechanism. Now in your mind, anyone who has different opinions about sexual conduct is the one who is "perverted." The fact that you "admonish" your kids and that you don't engage in pedophilia, does not mean that you have not through other means sexualized them, and thus may cause them problems as well. I would not punish you for that: you have done nothing overtly wrong, but they are obviously going to have to deal with the fact that you never got help.

You are really grasping at straws here. I do not think the behavior is normal. I feel no sexual desire towards my children. I have a fulfilling sex life without thought or contact with children. This is the kind of extreme reaction that is the real impediment to dealing with the issue. Everyone either says death to the offender or they themselves are a child molester.

 

This line of reasoning probably has you spitting mad, but the voices you are arguing against are just as mad at your inability to see the problem.Yes, you could be considered a suspect, and I won't be goaded into saying that the system is perfect, but conversely, you can't say that because there are flaws in the system, that *no action should be taken*. That is the best way to ensure that the negative consequences of molestation continue to propagate endlessly. When I read you initial description of this situation, my immediate reaction was to assume that your girlfriend had *no clue* that her child had been molested. The parents are *usually* not responsible *and* are oblivious to the signs.There you go proving my point again. Its *familiarity* and *willingness to pursue* the act demonstrated in your first anecdote that indicates molestation. My daughter likes to think she has a "boyfriend" at school, but she does not even really talk to him and she thinks that "kissing is gross". *That's* normal behavior for a pre-teen. Trying to put her hand down your pants is a big huge red flag.

Being your daughter she has probable figured out that expressing any genuine curiosity of desire with get the boy arrested and her institutionalized. I did not say no action should be taken. I disagreed with your response. I think that a context specific response is appropriate.

 

I'm not sure what to think of your interpretation that being tied up is evidence of "guilt...to prevent theri own sexual exploration":

It is not evidence of guilt. The entire play scenario is evidence of sexual feeling that you said they would not have unless they were molested.

you are sexualizing children in a way that our society does not consider normal at all, and those of us with feminist leanings are more prone to think that 1) its evidence of how they interpret the aggressive behavior of boys and 2) its evidence that they were at some point introduced to this concept as "normal" which it is not: media, parents, who knows, but its not something that "most" of us enjoy, nor is it "obvious".

Wow, you are consistent. So you have very cleverly defined you paradigm and any evidence of child sexuality is evidence of molestation. You do not need proof of molestation because the child sexuality is the proof. Do you remember the trial where supposed suppressed memories were brought out by psychologist and some people went to jail for molestation only be released later. It is this kind of absolutism that prevents a realistic view of the problem.

[TheBigDog]

Rebiu, a quick antecdote...

 

#2, when he was five, announces out of the blue one night that he had been kissing his friend. He was very proud about this, as young boys tend to be when they discover something new. Then he said "And it was a special kiss - you know... " and proceeded to waggle his tongue at us. This was one of those times that you don't know how you are going to react until it actually happens. #2 had been kissing mom and dad and grandma and grandpa and his aunts his whole life. Never "special" mind you, but kissing was not sexual to him or the boy he was doing it with. (Did I mention it was the little boy his age that lived 2 doors down?) "Special kissing" was something they had picked up from someplace and then they tried it.

 

As a parent, I had to deal with this experience, and try and set a future course that would not stifle #2 from being a curious kid, but would allow him to stay out of potential trouble (nobody wants this type of thing to get out while you are in school - kids are cruel). So I sat down with #2 and explained that he was too young to be kissing his friends. He could kiss mom and dad and grandma etc., but he was to young to be kissing his friends. Also, just like driving the car is something that only grownups get to do, he has to wait until he was a grown up to do any more "special kissing". Kissing is OK, but not special kissing. Also, kissing boys is going to get him teased by the other kids, because boys usually don't go around kissing other boys. Shaking hands is good, just like you see dad do when he meets his friends. #2 didn't have many questions, and that seemed to pretty much end the issue. Today at 15 he is mortified by these events and I don't really bring them up anymore. (except on the web for the world to read)

 

Conclusion: Deal with it when it happens. Don't explain more than they need to know (based upon age and maturity). Set boundaries of acceptable behavior, and use examples that they already understand for staying in those boundaries.

 

Being the community conscious person that I am I had to make sure that the other kid's parents knew about this too. Well his partner is puckering was the son of the militant leader of our circle. He was the little bossy guy who yelled at you when you parked in the wrong spot, or put your motorcycle by your door to keep it out of the rain. 5'6" of testosterone and ego. So I went and talked to his wife because I knew that they should know this was happening, and take the time to talk about it with their son, just as i was doing with mine. She was very excited about the fact that she would be able to tell her husband that his son was a fag - just to get under his skin. I don't know what the conversation they had with the kid was, but he was not allowed to play with #2 for about 3 months. It takes all kinds.

 

Bill

[Rebiu]

No, that wasn't the issue. It was pedophilia, the paraphilia of being sexually attracted primarily or exclusively to prepubescent

(13 years or younger) children.

 

Diagnostic criteria for Pedophilia:

* Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children, age 13 years or younger.

You should have read up before started posting Celeste. You said any sexual desire of children made you want to first puke.

* The person has acted on these urges, or the sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty.

* The person is at least age 16 years and at least 5 years older than the child or children in Criterion A.

Wow this is pretty specific.

Note: Do not include an individual in late adolescence involved in an ongoing sexual relationship with a 12 or 13-year-old.

So it is pedophilia until it goes on for a while?

 

 

I don't know Reibu. I would hate to even speculate. However, Your one of a kind so far.

70% of 4500 victims is probably slanted on the low side.

Of course there is no way of knowing for sure, but thanks to the increased awareness levels in schools, homes, and even between prepubescent children, estimates of reported sexual abuses are nearing 40% and climbing every year according to officials.

I suppose when you statistics reach 100 percent you will stop saying it is not normal.

Obviously two children playing doctor (children being the key word) has nothing to do with pedophilia.. and sexually motivated murder is an entirely different subject.

At least you can make that distinction.

This statement is based on unfair and unfounded assumptions. The fact is Reibu, that my 5 year old daughter told me within 15 mins after I arrived home from a business trip.

So it was you who left her with this person. I assume it was a man. What made you think leaving you daughter with this person was appropriate and why were you so unable to predict this possibility. Perhaps it is because you have an unrealistic view of human sexuality. By the way you said she was repeatedly molested.

More insults Reibu and once again, your wrong. My 5 year old daughter was NOT raped by a rapist. She was molested and violated by a 30 year old man, a PEDOPHILE, a man I had known for years.

I am not trying to insult you. I am pointing out how you unbalanced and unrealistic beliefs left you unequipped to deal with the real threat.

 

While he molested her, he told her how special she was and that she was his favorite of all. He repeatedly told her that he LOVED her. He told her the pain she was feeling was ok, cuz she's a big girl.

After he had his way with her, he told her mommy wouldn't love her anymore if she knew.

In his statement to the police, he stated that he didn't do anything wrong, he had only wanted to show my child the depth of his love.

Sound familiar?

This man is obviously a disturbed sexual predator. I cannot understand how you did not see that and allowed him to repeatedly have contact with your daughter. Did you pay him to watch her? Was you business trip so important that you put aside your doubts. Perhaps if you were more realistic and mature in you understanding of sexual desire you would not have equated the length of you friendship to trust in him. If you want to kill the next molester why not go kill him?

 

How could anyone who has fond memories of being molested pretend to even remotely understand. How could you know the pain or heartache? How could you justify a grown man or womens desires that ended with any childs torment. As a parent, how can you justify it Reibu?

Ugh now you make me want to puke. I did not justify it. I said you reaction was so extreme and unbalanced that it did more harm then good. I would never placed my daughter in that situation because I can see the danger a mile away.

 

Reibu, when I posted my thoughts on this subject, I posted from a personal perspective gained through personal experiences and knowledge.

Don't presume that I am not schooled on the subject. I know all to well about pedophillia and my daughter knows more then anyone should ever have to.

Yet you knowledge failed to stop the repeated molestations. My children do not self mutilate. I interact with them daily. I talk to them about intimacy and appropriate adult child interaction. I know that my 6 year old was bullied one time by an older child and have discussed his options and if he wanted me to intercede in that situation. I have taken work that allows me or my wife to always watch my children. I have realistic attitudes about adult and child sexuality and am therefore equipped to do what you have failed to do.

 

I hope you find the wisdom to learn from you mistakes. It seems you are just digging deeper trenches. You told yourself that you longtime friend could never be that kind of monster instead of realizing that sexual attraction to a child was not that extreme and that he represented a risk to your daughter.

[Rebiu]

Rebiu, a quick antecdote...

 

#2, when he was five, announces out of the blue one night that he had been kissing his friend. He was very proud about this, as young boys tend to be when they discover something new. Then he said "And it was a special kiss - you know... " and proceeded to waggle his tongue at us. This was one of those times that you don't know how you are going to react until it actually happens. #2 had been kissing mom and dad and grandma and grandpa and his aunts his whole life. Never "special" mind you, but kissing was not sexual to him or the boy he was doing it with. (Did I mention it was the little boy his age that lived 2 doors down?) "Special kissing" was something they had picked up from someplace and then they tried it.

 

As a parent, I had to deal with this experience, and try and set a future course that would not stifle #2 from being a curious kid, but would allow him to stay out of potential trouble (nobody wants this type of thing to get out while you are in school - kids are cruel). So I sat down with #2 and explained that he was too young to be kissing his friends. He could kiss mom and dad and grandma etc., but he was to young to be kissing his friends. Also, just like driving the car is something that only grownups get to do, he has to wait until he was a grown up to do any more "special kissing". Kissing is OK, but not special kissing. Also, kissing boys is going to get him teased by the other kids, because boys usually don't go around kissing other boys. Shaking hands is good, just like you see dad do when he meets his friends. #2 didn't have many questions, and that seemed to pretty much end the issue. Today at 15 he is mortified by these events and I don't really bring them up anymore. (except on the web for the world to read)

 

Conclusion: Deal with it when it happens. Don't explain more than they need to know (based upon age and maturity). Set boundaries of acceptable behavior, and use examples that they already understand for staying in those boundaries.

 

Being the community conscious person that I am I had to make sure that the other kid's parents knew about this too. Well his partner is puckering was the son of the militant leader of our circle. He was the little bossy guy who yelled at you when you parked in the wrong spot, or put your motorcycle by your door to keep it out of the rain. 5'6" of testosterone and ego. So I went and talked to his wife because I knew that they should know this was happening, and take the time to talk about it with their son, just as i was doing with mine. She was very excited about the fact that she would be able to tell her husband that his son was a fag - just to get under his skin. I don't know what the conversation they had with the kid was, but he was not allowed to play with #2 for about 3 months. It takes all kinds.

 

Bill

Thanks for the example. You show a balanced and mature perspective.

 

Buffy would have you call the police because his behavior is evidence of sexual abuse to her.

[Rebiu]

For those of you who do not believe prepubescent children have sexual desire my wife has just told me this tale.

 

When she was four years old she new an 18 year old. He did not show any sexual interest in her but she had an intense desire for physical intimate contact with him. She fantasized about being his wife, having children with him and as she put it “doing whatever he wanted”. She did not know about the mechanics or nature of sex but she felt the same desire. This desire did not come from be sexualized by an adult or being sexually exploited or molested or from hormones. Sex is an integrated aspect of the being human. Children do not benefit from the suspicion, interrogation, and intervention into feelings and experiences that should be private. I am not saying anyone should be compelled to do something they do not want to do, but that is not the case in all child sexuality occurrences.

 

I suspect if others were honest they would recall similar feelings and desires in their childhood. With a little courage we can stand up to extremists that will accuse us of sexualizing children through our own dysfunction and a realistic picture of child sexuality will emerge.

[TheBigDog]

For those of you who do not believe prepubescent children have sexual desire my wife has just told me this tale.

 

...

 

I suspect if others were honest they would recall similar feelings and desires in their childhood. With a little courage we can stand up to extremists that will accuse us of sexualizing children through our own dysfunction and a realistic picture of child sexuality will emerge.

It does not matter what desires a child has. It is irresponsible for an adult to allow certain desires to be fulfilled. One kid gats mad at another, says "I'm gonna kill him!". I say what? "Ok, you must get to know your feelings." Your kids see you drinking a beer at dinner, you give them one when they ask? Let them drink themselves under the table? Let them have more any time they want? You catch your five year old sneeking cigarettes, you go out and buy them their own? And a safety lighter? Your kids sneek your car keys and go for a drive. You put pedal boosters in to make it safer for them? I just don't get you dude. I acknowledge that kids have curiosity about sex, but curiosity about sex for kids needs to be met with education and limitations, not exploration and demonstration.

 

If you are an advocate of child sex among children you are too far off the scale for my world. Buffy is not wrong. She is just showing proper concern where you show disregard for normal child development because your own case was different for you.

 

Bill

[Cedars]

For those of you who do not believe prepubescent children have sexual desire my wife has just told me this tale.

 

When she was four years old she new an 18 year old. She fantasized about being his wife, having children with him and as she put it “doing whatever he wanted”. She did not know about the mechanics or nature of sex but she felt the same desire. Children do not benefit from the suspicion, interrogation, and intervention into feelings and experiences that should be private.

 

I suspect if others were honest they would recall similar feelings and desires in their childhood.

 

Most children notice there is a special relationship between their parents and other adult couples. They notice things like grandma and grandpa sleep in the same bed, just from observing how this room is set up, just like mommy and daddy sleep in the same bed. Most children are told some kind of story about how little brother/sister came into the world without this tale being explict in content, but it does make the child aware there is a special relationship between men and women who live together, that is different than what happens when brothers and sisters live together. Your wifes words are true "doing whatever he wanted", and this is because she knew there are special things mommies and daddys do together, or some other terms that were used to explain to her the relationship between couples. I think if she would have known the mechanics back then, she would have added these words, "everything but that".

 

I wonder how many parents in here have been walked in on by some 3-4-5 year old during a very intimate moment. *please do not start a poll*

 

Or, Auntie Pat is now bringing a BOY to Thanksgiving and I seen them kissing! Grandma was joking with mommy about how they might get married and have kids. Going to weddings as a child brings more information. Hmmm the young mind ponders. There is something going on that grown ups do. I want to be married when I grow up! This is not based on some burning hormonal desire within the child. It is playing a role. Imitating what a child perceives adults do.

 

Some children do put together more of these ideas faster than others. Whether its from walking in on mom and dad and the embarrasing or playful explanation that mom/dad gives this child who has a wide-eyed 'what are they doing' look, or thru some 12 year old telling little brother about the physical aspects of sex, and little brother sharing this info with classmates until one child informs mommy of what Johnny told him on the playground.... inspiring a neighborhood query. Eventually some kid is gonna tell the source that they didnt like being asked such questions by their mom and keep your mouth shut next time Johnny tells you a story on the playground.

 

And each parent can have a different reaction to this information being given to their child. Some will react as mildly as when some brat told their kindergarten child there is no santa claus to the extreme of "Aaack! Johnnys gonna grow up to be a child molester!!"

 

I dont think anyone here is thinking that you were responsible for what occured, or required to know that 4 year olds shouldnt be experiencing sexual activities with a 14 year old. That was your parents job and via your posts they apparently didnt leave you comfortable with talking with them about what occured.

 

I do think you are projecting your own experience on the average child experience. One thing that is hard for survivors of abuse of any nature to reconcile is this: What was experienced by the survivor is not the average/most common developmental experience.

[Rebiu]

It does not matter what desires a child has.

Does the understanding of a child motivations matter?

It is irresponsible for an adult to allow certain desires to be fulfilled.

Obviously. Does this mean masturbation is a out for your kids?

 

I just don't get you dude.

Kids are people with all the complexity and motivations of adults. Most are forced into this notion of childhood so that parents do not have to deal with the uncomfortable. This does a great deal of harm in the process. This also leaves them completely unprepared for adulthood. The problems of teenage irresponsibility and rebellion all come form misguided notions of childhood like this.

I acknowledge that kids have curiosity about sex, but curiosity about sex for kids needs to be met with education and limitations, not exploration and demonstration.

You mean like illustrations of genitals instead of color photographs and unemotional biological descriptions of egg fertilization? In today’s world they will find the information you withhold and they will get it without your example or guidance. Your limitations are on your interactions with the child not on their exposure to sexually oriented content. I assume your children have access to TV, radio, magazines. Just look at Buffy’s avatar just dripping with sexual innuendo to see the prevalence of sex oriented exposure in this culture.

 

If you are an advocate of child sex among children you are too far off the scale for my world.

I am advocating a realistic understanding of the human condition during childhood. I am advocating a balances approach to child sexuality. One that includes a realistic perspective on what it is and why things happen.

Buffy is not wrong.

Please, she is a wrong as can be.

She is just showing proper concern

Her and your notion of the child sexuality is lazy, selfish, and a damaging oversimplification designed to make your life easier at the expense of your childrens "normal developement".

where you show disregard for normal child development

If you think children have not sexual desire until puberty then you are mistaken about "normal child development".

because your own case was different for you.

The only difference in my case is that I actually remember and acknowledge what occurred in my life. The real difference between us is that I have honestly considered your perspective on this issue and rejected it inability to accurately describe reality and you are so terrified of the idea a sexually motivated child that you run and hide behind cultural platitudes and the latest useless child centric sexual abuse prevention dogma being taught in school.

[Rebiu]

Most children notice there is a special relationship between their parents and other adult couples. They notice things like grandma and grandpa sleep in the same bed, just from observing how this room is set up, just like mommy and daddy sleep in the same bed. Most children are told some kind of story about how little brother/sister came into the world without this tale being explict in content, but it does make the child aware there is a special relationship between men and women who live together, that is different than what happens when brothers and sisters live together. Your wifes words are true "doing whatever he wanted", and this is because she knew there are special things mommies and daddys do together, or some other terms that were used to explain to her the relationship between couples. I think if she would have known the mechanics back then, she would have added these words, "everything but that".

There was more than knowledge of the special relationship between adults, there was an intense desire to experience it. Buffy claimed that sexual desire require knowledge of sex and the hormone surge of puberty and this story was to show that this is not the case.

 

I wonder how many parents in here have been walked in on by some 3-4-5 year old during a very intimate moment. *please do not start a poll*

I wonder how many of these parent understood what the kid was doing and how many made ridiculous assumptions like children do not experience sexual desire.

And each parent can have a different reaction to this information being given to their child. Some will react as mildly as when some brat told their kindergarten child there is no santa claus to the extreme of "Aaack! Johnnys gonna grow up to be a child molester!!"

Yes and that reaction can be extremely damaging to a child development.

 

I dont think anyone here is thinking that you were responsible for what occured, or required to know that 4 year olds shouldnt be experiencing sexual activities with a 14 year old. That was your parents job and via your posts they apparently didnt leave you comfortable with talking with them about what occured.

My parents were so paralyzed by sexualy frank discourse that any dialogue on the subject would most likely have permanently damaged them.

I do think you are projecting your own experience on the average child experience.

If you beleive the statistics my example is the average child experience.

One thing that is hard for survivors of abuse of any nature to reconcile is this: What was experienced by the survivor is not the average/most common developmental experience.

That would not apply to me, as I was never abused. Let us explore the value of this "most common developmental experience". I believe it includes drug use, rebellion, and yes preadult sexual activity..

[Buffy]

Just look at Buffy’s avatar just dripping with sexual innuendo to see the prevalence of sex oriented exposure in this culture.

I would assume from this quote that you believe dress provides justification for rape. We are obviously showing in this thread how difficult it is for you to see things from a different perspective: the only correct interpretation of facts seems to be your own, which just by counting noses here is in an extreme minority.

 

The amusing thing is that I'm a big fan of Naomi Wolf, who strongly advocates talking about female sexuality, but to get away from the polar interpretation of "she's either a prude or a slut" that's evidenced by this quote from you. There is a huge difference between the recognition of the stages of sexual awareness and the "anything goes" point of view that you have enunciated in this thread, which makes *no* recognition of any progression, but rather says, when kids show *any* interest in sex, they're ready to screw their brains out with anyone. That's not a progression and that's not how kids grow up. I realize that you can't accept that because you view your own experience as being the only normal one, but that's not how most of the rest of us see it.

I am advocating a realistic understanding of the human condition during childhood. I am advocating a balances approach to child sexuality. ... Please, she is a wrong as can be. Her and your notion of the child sexuality is lazy, selfish, and a damaging oversimplification designed to make your life easier at the expense of your childrens "normal developement".

This is seething with unresolved anger. It is never too late to seek help. Projecting your anger on others who do not share your views is not healthy. As I said earlier in the thread, a common reaction to molestation is to accept it as normal. You admirably have avoided becoming a pedophile yourself--which is unfortunately the fate of many who go through what you've been through--but I think you've shown here that it has hardly had a good effect on you.

 

I actually agree that American society is bizarrely prudish about anything having to do with sex, but this does not equate "letting kids grow up gradually at their own speed" with "pushing them down the Lolita road," and it *especially* does not provide *any* justification for the all too many sexual predators who conveniently use such arguments to justify "child love."

 

Designated slut,

Buffy

[Rebiu]

I would assume from this quote that you believe dress provides justification for rape. We are obviously showing in this thread how difficult it is for you to see things from a different perspective: the only correct interpretation of facts seems to be your own, which just by counting noses here is in an extreme minority.

Obvious flame attempts

 

The amusing thing is that I'm a big fan of Naomi Wolf, who strongly advocates talking about female sexuality, but to get away from the polar interpretation of "she's either a prude or a slut" that's evidenced by this quote from you. There is a huge difference between the recognition of the stages of sexual awareness and the "anything goes" point of view that you have enunciated in this thread, which makes *no* recognition of any progression, but rather says, when kids show *any* interest in sex, they're ready to screw their brains out with anyone. That's not a progression and that's not how kids grow up. I realize that you can't accept that because you view your own experience as being the only normal one, but that's not how most of the rest of us see it.This is seething with unresolved anger. It is never too late to seek help. Projecting your anger on others who do not share your views is not healthy. As I said earlier in the thread, a common reaction to molestation is to accept it as normal. You admirably have avoided becoming a pedophile yourself--which is unfortunately the fate of many who go through what you've been through--but I think you've shown here that it has hardly had a good effect on you.

Flame on

 

I actually agree that American society is bizarrely prudish about anything having to do with sex, but this does not equate "letting kids grow up gradually at their own speed" with "pushing them down the Lolita road," and it *especially* does not provide *any* justification for the all too many sexual predators who conveniently use such arguments to justify "child love."

I guess this would be the flaming strawman. I never advocationg pushing children to do anything.

Designated slut,

Buffy

Slut is your word, not mine.

[Celeste]

Originally Posted by Reibu

You should have read up before started posting Celeste. You said any sexual desire of children made you want to first puke.

 

As far as adults desiring/having sex with little children....Sure did. It still makes me want to puke. It also makes me sick that "some" people think its normal to desire little children.

 

Originally Posted by Reibu

So it is pedophilia until it goes on for a while?

 

C'mon, give me a break. I have a hard time believing you didn't understand the specifics of that sentence. The difference in adult / child-sex versus 16 year olds / 12-13 yr old sex ?, should be apparent to even you.

 

Originally Posted by Reibu

I suppose when you statistics reach 100 percent you will stop saying it is not normal.

 

Sexual child abuse will never be considered "normal".

 

Originally Posted by Reibu

At least you can make that distinction.

 

More insults, what a shock.

 

Originally Posted by Reibu

So it was you who left her with this person. I assume it was a man. What made you think leaving you daughter with this person was appropriate and why were you so unable to predict this possibility. Perhaps it is because you have an unrealistic view of human sexuality. By the way you said she was repeatedly molested.

 

Yeah it was me that left her with my sister in law. Very typical to blame the victims rather then put the blame on the offenders. From your stance Reibu, I suspect that other children/adults aren't allowed at your house nor yours at theirs.

Yeah, the creep had a real great time over several days.

 

Originally Posted by Reibu

I would never placed my daughter in that situation because I can see the danger a mile away.

 

Really? Do tell Reibu....what do sexual predators look like? How do they act?

Are you sure everyone you know is "safe"?

If you have those answers, might I suggest you fill in the rest of the world because your the only one I've ever seen state that he has the ability to "see the danger a mile away."

 

Originally Posted by Reibu

If you want to kill the next molester why not go kill him?

 

What? Where did that come from?

 

Originally Posted by Reibu

Yet you knowledge failed to stop the repeated molestations. My children do not self mutilate. I interact with them daily. I talk to them about intimacy and appropriate adult child interaction. I know that my 6 year old was bullied one time by an older child and have discussed his options and if he wanted me to intercede in that situation. I have taken work that allows me or my wife to always watch my children. I have realistic attitudes about adult and child sexuality and am therefore equipped to do what you have failed to do.

 

It was over a solid 4 day period Reibu. Kind of hard when you have to work and your job takes you a few hundred miles from home. Something you seem oblivious too.

 

Originally Posted by Reibu

My children do not self mutilate......am therefore equipped to do what you have failed to do.

 

Unbelievable. Just what the hell are you suggesting? I suppose her mutilation is my fault too by your standards?

Your blantant insults only serve to repeatedly reflect your character and compassion, or lack thereof.

 

Originally Posted by Reibu

I know that my 6 year old was bullied one time by an older child

 

Why were you not there to prevent it in the first place? Bully's and pedophiles have a few things in common.

 

Which children are most likely to be the victims of a bully? Children who are isolated, physically or socially; children who are perceived as different; sensitive children; those with poor social skills; and sometimes children who are just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

Originally Posted by Reibu

I hope you find the wisdom to learn from you mistakes. It seems you are just digging deeper trenches.

 

And I sincerely hope your children never have to experience what my daughter did.

 

I won't take the low road with you Reibu, nor will I continue falling victim to your insinuations and insults.

 

BTW...my daughter, my best friend, who is also a mother, wishes you all the best in raising your children without a single blemish in a less then perfect world. A world where reality has proven that it is plentiful in bullies, pedators and injustices.

[Rebiu]

I won't take the low road with you Reibu, nor will I continue falling victim to your insinuations and insults.

 

BTW...my daughter, my best friend, who is also a mother, wishes you all the best in raising your children without a single blemish in a less then perfect world. A world where reality has proven that it is plentiful in bullies, pedators and injustices.

Goodbye

[infamous]

Just look at Buffy’s avatar just dripping with sexual innuendo to see the prevalence of sex oriented exposure in this culture.

That comment, or any like it, will earn you no respect here at Hypography Rebiu. Insulting references made about members appearance shows a complete lack of respect on your part and will gain you negative representation. This course behavior, with intent to defame, only demonstrates that you may have problems with human sexuality yourself. I suppose if you were to visit the beach for a swim someday, you would begin chastising eveyone for allowing their bodies to be overly exposed. And yet, you come here expouding your liberal views about adolescent sexuality, how ironic and hypocritical......................Infy

[Rebiu]

Just look at Buffy’s avatar just dripping with sexual innuendo to see the prevalence of sex oriented exposure in this culture.

That comment, or any like it, will earn you no respect here at Hypography Rebiu.

Your attempt to understand this comment without its context make me question if you have the capacity to judge or even understand respect yourself.

Insulting references made about members appearance shows a complete lack of respect on your part and will gain you negative representation.

There is nothing insulting about this statement. In fact it is true and if Buffy is honest she would admit that is why she uses the picture.

This course behavior, with intent to defame, only demonstrates that you may have problems with human sexuality yourself.

What a desperate blind leap.

I suppose if you were to visit the beach for a swim someday, you would begin chastising eveyone for allowing their bodies to be overly exposed. And yet, you come here expouding your liberal views about adolescent sexuality, how ironic and hypocritical......................Infy

I have no problem with overt displays of sexuality or even nudity. Since you appear to be to slow or perhaps lazy to read and understand this entire thread I will attempt to explain it again. Buffy implied that children have no sexual interest of desire unless they are sexually abused. She then cleverly describes any sexual exposure as abuse. I was pointing out that her avatar itself was sexual in nature.