Debate about something to do with security clearances

[Mutex]

6 hours ago, OceanBreeze said:

I missed a couple of these "Mutex's"

You were on US Battleships?  When was this? Oh, I know, you really didn't mean battleships just like you really didn't mean to say your TS clearance was given by the US, right?

As has been pointed out to you several times now, whatever security clearance you may have been given by the Australian authority, it is NOT valid at all in the US and it cannot be the same clearance, no matter how many times you assert it.

The US Coast Guard probably works far more with security allied countries and even non-allied countries, than the US Navy simply because the Coast Guard is a defensive organization, it is more readily accepted/trusted by other nations. That is also partially true of the NOAA since it is a scientific organization with many science partners from around the world.

 

You don't seem to be particularly smart, or you can't read or something. And yes, I have BEEN ON US Battleships, Namely one called USS Missouri, you might have heard about it. 

Did I serve on it? Hell not, Did I do work on top secret systems ON THE MISSOURI, inside their comcenter.. YES. 

I don't remember the US coast guard doing much in the way of working with other Navies, or NOAA. But until you get some respect and stop being toxic there is no point in engaging you, or supporting this forum.. 

I hope you go soon, for the sake of this sub. Because you are an ***. and you don't know sh1t about what you are talking about.. So F off. 

[OceanBreeze]

15 minutes ago, Mutex said:

You don't seem to be particularly smart, or you can't read or something. And yes, I have BEEN ON US Battleships, Namely one called USS Missouri, you might have heard about it. 

Did I serve on it? Hell not, Did I do work on top secret systems ON THE MISSOURI, inside their comcenter.. YES. 

I don't remember the US coast guard doing much in the way of working with other Navies, or NOAA. But until you get some respect and stop being toxic there is no point in engaging you, or supporting this forum.. 

I hope you go soon, for the sake of this sub. Because you are an ***. and you don't know sh1t about what you are talking about.. So F off. 

That ship is a museum piece in Pearl Harbor, decommissioned in 1992 I think, so I do find it hard to believe you worked in the comcenter. How can you work in the comcenter but not serve aboard her? What I really do not get is why the USN needs an Australian cryptographer to work in their ship comcenters? The USN doesn't have qualified people so they need to call you in?

Edited October 8, 2020 by OceanBreeze

[Mutex]

4 minutes ago, OceanBreeze said:

That ship is a museum piece in Pearl Harbor, decommissioned in 1992 I think, so I do find it hard to believe you worked in the comcenter. How can you work in the comcenter but not serve aboard her? What I really do not get is why the USN needs an Australian crytographer to work in their ship comcenters? The USN doesn't have qualified people so they need to call you in?

Again, until you can be civil (or leave this forum) there is no real need to engage you, but I don't know what is wrong with you, but if you want you can check it out (if you have the required security clearance), it was a RIMPAC exercise 1988, the USS Missouri battle group, against the USS Nimitz carrier group, And YES, we had some problems with our UHF Systems, and the Missouri's Wiskey 3 specialist came onboard our ship to help me with a unit that was not working (gave us replacement circuit), and in return I was able to do some work on one of their crypto systems. 

I know you think everything I say is a lie, and because of 'coast guard' you are some freaking expert, So because of your arrogance you want to downplay my service, and deny my achievements. What because 'MERICA' ?? 

What's wrong with you?

I told you some of the equipment I worked on was manufactured by the NSA, If I did not have a clearance accepted by the US to work on that gear, there is NO WAY I would. BUT I Focing DID. Now ENOUGH, and apologize A^^hole.

[Mutex]

3 hours ago, OceanBreeze said:

That ship is a museum piece in Pearl Harbor, decommissioned in 1992 I think, so I do find it hard to believe you worked in the comcenter. How can you work in the comcenter but not serve aboard her? What I really do not get is why the USN needs an Australian cryptographer to work in their ship comcenters? The USN doesn't have qualified people so they need to call you in?

So one last time so we can end this: Lets see if you can grasp this.

'The highest security clearance can issue': Yes, The US designs the equipment, they manage it and they even own it, they also classify the equipment as Top Secret, therefore, it is a US issues security clearance. Now I was issued my US Security Clearance (for US classified equipment), by the Australian Security Agency (ASIO), as I was vetted to the necessary standard required for me to possess a Top Secret clearance to work on US classified equipment.

Now I was on an Australian Ship (a DDG), that is a US BUILT guided missile destroyer, being US built our systems are not only compatible, they are the same, as such we need a US security clearance. 

Quote

What I really do not get is why the USN needs an Australian crytographer to work in their ship comcenters? The USN doesn't have qualified people so they need to call you in?

I'm astonished you do not understand that, it is very routine, it happens all the time, we are just as qualified, and security cleared so you go there, sign the log, get a visitors pass and do what you come to do. 

I don't know how you do things in the coast guard, but in the real world if you are in military exercises and you are in a group from other countries, you are ALL ONE, so specialists or someone with experience with some problem will routinely go elsewhere and yes, I have been in the crypto vaults and commcenters of US military ships, and it's the exact same equipment we have. I can be there because I have a valid US granted, Australian issues Top Secret clearance, accepted and recognized by the US. (Security access GIVEN by the US).

No doubt you'll accuse me of making all that up, or lying.. So be it..

[Thoth101]

17 hours ago, Mutex said:

I have worked with the US extensively, but I don't give a flying stuff what a CAC is, I don't care. So are you also implying I am lying? 

We'll your own experience is not much to go on, what did you do in the military, did you have access to secure areas? 

I have been in joint Naval exercises with the US military, and have worked on US war ships IN THEIR MOST SECURE area's, namely their communications and crypto rooms. 

So in MY experience, you're wrong. 

Of course you can't take a PED into those rooms, or a camera, hell in some places you are not even allowed to take notes, or write anything down at all. 

Anyway, this is a pointless and stupid conversation, and you guys are acting like flat earthers, if it looks flat to you, then it is flat. 

If you worked with the US extensively you would know what a CAC card is. We need to use it to even sign up for a flight or enter a base. You would not even be able to enter a base without a CAC card unless you are escorted. That is a fact every veteran and military member knows. If you have worked on US ships unless you had a CAC card yourself you would need to be escorted everywhere. Unless you were a part of something illegal, your story isn't adding up. I don't want to accuse you of lying it just all seems fishy to me. No pun intended.😄

Yes, I did have access to secure areas, that was part of my job. I worked on the flightline with the aircrafts. In the Air Force it is known as a 2T251. Nobody is allowed on the flightline without a CAC card unless they are escorted. Part of the job is escorting entities and foreign militaries that can't have a CAC card.

Not sure how you combine flat earthers with talking about security clearances but I suppose that is your way calling the argument some kind of conspiracy but it is not. It would be a conspiracy if you were looking at secret information from the US when you are not a US citizen.

[Mutex]

22 minutes ago, Thoth101 said:

If you worked with the US extensively you would know what a CAC card is. We need to use it to even sign up for a flight or enter a base. You would not even be able to enter a base without a CAC card unless you are escorted. That is a fact every veteran and military member knows. If you have worked on US ships unless you had a CAC card yourself you would need to be escorted everywhere. Unless you were a part of something illegal, your story isn't adding up. I don't want to accuse you of lying it just all seems fishy to me. No pun intended.😄

Yes, I did have access to secure areas, that was part of my job. I worked on the flightline with the aircrafts. In the Air Force it is known as a 2T251. Nobody is allowed on the flightline without a CAC card unless they are escorted. Part of the job is escorting entities and foreign militaries that can't have a CAC card.

Not sure how you combine flat earthers with talking about security clearances but I suppose that is your way calling the argument some kind of conspiracy but it is not. It would be a conspiracy if you were looking at secret information from the US when you are not a US citizen.

You see what you did there, NO, I DID NOT work with the US extensively at all, I never said I did, NOR am I in the US ID card system or military structure.

Why would you even assume that? In my last post I thought I made it fairly easy to understand, so there is NO requirement for me to know (or care) about what the US does for security clearance for their members, that stuff really has nothing to do with the actual people working in the area. That's administration.

What I said in my last post explains it very clearly, just take that as a fact and stop trying to make a flat earth argument out of it. 

There seems to be a disconnect between what you people read and what you understand the words are saying.

It's US equipment, classified by the US as Top Secret, that means the US WILL NOT let ANYONE without a US Security Clearance to work on that equipment, REGARDLESS of what country issues that US GIVEN Security clearance.

Again, what do you not understand about that, and why on earth would I have to know anything at all about the inner working of the administration of the US Navy or military?

It's called standardization, we are all using the same equipment and systems, it's all compatible, it is done that way to maximize resources, you do that because if needed you can easily get help from other people (suitably cleared), and in a war the idea is that is the best way to get the job done.

As such, it is not at all unusual for that to occur, in what I was doing I was very highly qualified and had good abilities to resolve systems problems, and that is what you do, they helped me on some equipment, and we (I) did the same, and as I said, it's not a big deal it happens all the time, it is routine and there is a specific procedure to do it.

Have you seen "hunt for Red October' ? Do you remember the scene where the guy had to brief the generals? Did you see the guy that was with him sign a log and give him a visitors pass?

That is actually how it works, you sign in and get signed in, you show your normal ID, you get a pass and you are escorted by the person who signed you in. 

You guys are still accusing me of lying? because 'reasons' ? It's about time you pulled your head out of your A%%. I'm getting sick of this crap.

Ooh I don't know about CAC, who gives a flying Fling about CAC's? You're embarrassing yourselves.

[Thoth101]

1 hour ago, Mutex said:

You see what you did there, NO, I DID NOT work with the US extensively at all, I never said I did, NOR am I in the US ID card system or military structure.

Why would you even assume that? In my last post I thought I made it fairly easy to understand, so there is NO requirement for me to know (or care) about what the US does for security clearance for their members, that stuff really has nothing to do with the actual people working in the area. That's administration.

What I said in my last post explains it very clearly, just take that as a fact and stop trying to make a flat earth argument out of it. 

There seems to be a disconnect between what you people read and what you understand the words are saying.

It's US equipment, classified by the US as Top Secret, that means the US WILL NOT let ANYONE without a US Security Clearance to work on that equipment, REGARDLESS of what country issues that US GIVEN Security clearance.

Again, what do you not understand about that, and why on earth would I have to know anything at all about the inner working of the administration of the US Navy or military?

It's called standardization, we are all using the same equipment and systems, it's all compatible, it is done that way to maximize resources, you do that because if needed you can easily get help from other people (suitably cleared), and in a war the idea is that is the best way to get the job done.

As such, it is not at all unusual for that to occur, in what I was doing I was very highly qualified and had good abilities to resolve systems problems, and that is what you do, they helped me on some equipment, and we (I) did the same, and as I said, it's not a big deal it happens all the time, it is routine and there is a specific procedure to do it.

Have you seen "hunt for Red October' ? Do you remember the scene where the guy had to brief the generals? Did you see the guy that was with him sign a log and give him a visitors pass?

That is actually how it works, you sign in and get signed in, you show your normal ID, you get a pass and you are escorted by the person who signed you in. 

You guys are still accusing me of lying? because 'reasons' ? It's about time you pulled your head out of your A%%. I'm getting sick of this crap.

Ooh I don't know about CAC, who gives a flying Fling about CAC's? You're embarrassing yourselves.

Well I will have to stop you right there. If you go back page 1 you specifically said that you worked with the US extensively and that you have been in joint Naval exercises with the US military. Are you forgetting what you posted or now are you stating that what you said previously was wrong? I just want to clear that up and I am trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here.

I know how it works. I was in the Military for 6 years and I did contracting in Iraq and Afghanistan for 3. So I am quite clear on how it all works. I have not seen the movie "Hunt for Red October". I don't watch many movies because it bores me to sit there and watch these Hollywood propaganda films. I am not saying I don't watch movies at all but it is very rare. I do watch many documentaries however. Something I can learn something from.

Here are your exact words: 

I have worked with the US extensively, but I don't give a flying stuff what a CAC is, I don't care. So are you also implying I am lying? 

We'll your own experience is not much to go on, what did you do in the military, did you have access to secure areas? 

I have been in joint Naval exercises with the US military, and have worked on US war ships IN THEIR MOST SECURE area's, namely their communications and crypto rooms."

Edited October 9, 2020 by Thoth101
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[Mutex]

3 minutes ago, Thoth101 said:

Well I will have to stop you right there. If you go back page 1 you specifically said that you worked with the US extensively and that you have been in joint Naval exercises with the US military.

Quote me:

I HAVE worked extensively with US built and classified Top Secret systems, that is not the same as saying I worked extensively with the US. 

You have a real comprehension problem:

How many times do I have to explain myself, until you understand the words I am saying? Is English not your first language?

I worked WITH the US, in this situation, for possibly 1 or 2 hours!! I worked on US manufactured and classified equipment for years and years, that equipment is classified Top Secret by the US government, no one can see that equipment or work on it unless you have a valid Top Secret security clearance ACCORDING TO THE US GOVERNMENT.

My original statement, that start all this garbage, was that I said, I help the highest security clearance (top secret) that the US can give out.

That statement is perfectly true, I held a US top secret clearance, issued to me by Australia, but it is a valid US security clearance that allows me to US Government classified equipment.

Can you grasp that concept? Or is that too much for you?

 

[Thoth101]

2 hours ago, Mutex said:

Quote me:

I HAVE worked extensively with US built and classified Top Secret systems, that is not the same as saying I worked extensively with the US. 

You have a real comprehension problem:

How many times do I have to explain myself, until you understand the words I am saying? Is English not your first language?

I worked WITH the US, in this situation, for possibly 1 or 2 hours!! I worked on US manufactured and classified equipment for years and years, that equipment is classified Top Secret by the US government, no one can see that equipment or work on it unless you have a valid Top Secret security clearance ACCORDING TO THE US GOVERNMENT.

My original statement, that start all this garbage, was that I said, I help the highest security clearance (top secret) that the US can give out.

That statement is perfectly true, I held a US top secret clearance, issued to me by Australia, but it is a valid US security clearance that allows me to US Government classified equipment.

Can you grasp that concept? Or is that too much for you?

 

You must be delirious, The I HAVE or not the Have. So now it has comes down to the word Have or not the have, really?😄 How are you saying I don't understand English when the words are right there in plain site that you typed. My benefit of the doubt is gone and OceanBreeze is right you are not telling the truth. I guess you are going to say we are both crazy now. Now you are just trying to cover up your lie with no have or a have.

[OceanBreeze]

I think this has gone on long enough and is going nowhere so I’m locking this.

Hopefully we can find something more interesting to discuss.

 

Edit: Since new posts were made in the "Corona virus is Fake News" thread on this topic, I have moved them here. 

Edited October 11, 2020 by OceanBreeze
New posts were made in another thread

[Mutex]

8 hours ago, Thoth101 said:

The Great American Mask Rip-Off

In a riveting YouTube video, Patrick Wood and Citizens for Free Speech feature neurosurgeon Dr. Russell Blaylock, who discusses the totalitarian world that’s evolving with COVID-19, including mandated mask-wearing and the possibility of a mandatory vaccine.

The fallacy of mask-wearing is that masks are not the end-all, be-all that governments are trying to claim. First, not all masks are alike and they don’t all protect the same — if they are effective at all.

Not only that, masks can harm the wearer in different ways, including making it more difficult to breathe, despite what “official” reports say.

Other conditions also make mask-wearing “ridiculous,” the film explains, if for no other reason that people move the masks up and down their faces and spread the virus and other germs back and forth. For example, people take the contaminated masks off and put them on tables and other places, which not only spreads whatever germs they have, but pick up other germs at the same time.

The film addresses possible vaccines at length, giving background on other respiratory vaccines and outlining why it doesn’t make sense to mandate a vaccine for COVID-19, which has a 99.8% survival rate.

https://blogs.mercola.com/sites/vitalvotes/archive/2020/10/08/the-great-american-mask-rip-off.aspx

 

I think you are lying Thoth.. why do you and Ocean lie all the time? Why did you say you were in the military when you obviously were not?

And Ocean I do not believe you were ever in the Coast Guard, held a security clearance, or that you have the mental capacity to work for NOAA. In fact I don't even think either of you live in the US.

[montgomery]

2 hours ago, Mutex said:

I think you are lying Thoth.. why do you and Ocean lie all the time? Why did you say you were in the military when you obviously were not?

And Ocean I do not believe you were ever in the Coast Guard, held a security clearance, or that you have the mental capacity to work for NOAA. In fact I don't even think either of you live in the US.

I'm taking the position that none of the posters on this forum have ever had a security clearance or served in any military other than a foot soldier grunt.

And that goes for everybody's martial arts claims too. It's a safe position to take because there's no reason for anybody to be blowing their own horns on a forum. We need to form our own conclusions and it's usually no more difficult to do than it's been for figuring out what makes Thoth tick.

[Thoth101]

13 hours ago, Mutex said:

I think you are lying Thoth.. why do you and Ocean lie all the time? Why did you say you were in the military when you obviously were not?

And Ocean I do not believe you were ever in the Coast Guard, held a security clearance, or that you have the mental capacity to work for NOAA. In fact I don't even think either of you live in the US.

I was in the military and a contractor and if you don't believe me, I don't really care. You are the one who has been caught in many lies so don't be a gas lighter and psychopath and come to terms with your own delusions.

[Thoth101]

11 hours ago, montgomery said:

I'm taking the position that none of the posters on this forum have ever had a security clearance or served in any military other than a foot soldier grunt.

And that goes for everybody's martial arts claims too. It's a safe position to take because there's no reason for anybody to be blowing their own horns on a forum. We need to form our own conclusions and it's usually no more difficult to do than it's been for figuring out what makes Thoth tick.

You can believe what you want. I have many pictures in my military uniform and of Iraq and Afghanistan. I also still have one of my old CAC cards.

[Mutex]

On 10/10/2020 at 3:40 AM, montgomery said:

I'm taking the position that none of the posters on this forum have ever had a security clearance or served in any military other than a foot soldier grunt.

And that goes for everybody's martial arts claims too. It's a safe position to take because there's no reason for anybody to be blowing their own horns on a forum. We need to form our own conclusions and it's usually no more difficult to do than it's been for figuring out what makes Thoth tick.

I think you are right, and that is why they simply do not understand the difference between having access to some limited classified information for your job, and having everything about your job to be in that world.

But if I was lying I have to do a great deal of research to make my claim, I gave the year, the exercise, the ships involved and so on.

I could have even given the approximate specific date, it was within a few days of the 4th of July 1988 (guess how I could remember that date :D)

I has on HMAS Hobart, parked behind the USS Missouri, I did my electronics training at HMAS Nirimba in Sydney, was posted to HMAS Harman in Canberra, and if you look up HMAS Harman today you will see it is a military communications center, with all the big dish antennas and so on.

Back in the 80's it was mainly HF communications (less satellite), I also worked at a place called 'DEFCOMMARS', (Defense communications Automatic relay station). That is a deeply secure place, (armed guards, multiple security checks on entry, 4 key codes. (in general a pain in the butt). The place even had the biggest bank type vault in the southern hemisphere, that we worked in within the secure building, (secure within, secure within secure). 

The reason is we had the design and the code for 'the enigma machine', that is the enemy gets their hands on what I know (or knew at the time), they not only get your little single bit of classified information you may need for your job, you GET EVERYTHING. You get the keys to the cupboard. 

So I can see how they think, you get posted to a submarine and you are told how deep it can go, and that is secret, so you think you are cleared Top Secret. 

They don't understand how a non-American can hold a security clearance that is American, it is not hard to understand that if you understand it is America that builds the gear, and as such classifies it, and it can ONLY be the US that can allow people to access that information. It is a US security clearance.  

They also think that as a non-US person I can't have the level of skills or qualifications required over someone from the US, that makes no sense at all. Very often we are more qualified and have had longer and more extensive training (4 years for me). 

Complex systems are much easier to fix when working with others. 

They also do not seem to understand resource management, and how these things work, and what the goal is for a battle group of warships at war. 

for example: every ship has 5 high power HF transmitters, functional requirement is to have 3 working, if one ship has all 5 working and a qualified HF tech, and another ship in the group has only 3 working, when the ships report their status to the admiral (fleet commander) and he see one ship with 5 working and one with 3 and 1 tech trying to fix 2 and the other not doing anything. He will say "get that guy no doing anything to take himself and a working transmitter to the other ship and help him get at least 4 working transmitters. (two ships with 4 is way better than 1 with 3 working).

It's resource management 101, the goal is to get the job done, not stroke ego's.

So even if they just sent me over to help very often a fresh set of eyes helps a lot, and it makes no difference what country to ship is from, it's all the same equipment, but usually after the exercise the equipment will be swapped back. 

It's funny because all this is about conspiracy secrets, I was simply saying having access to a great many signals and communications secrets, that they ARE NOT very interesting! That was it, for that I am called a liar, my 10 years military service put into question and that all I said was some some elaborate lie. (for some reason). 

I just hoped that Ocean and Thoth would not be so toxic and actively driving people away from the forum. 

Hell I even participated in ABLE ARCHER exercises!! (although I was just out of training, no not that much direct involvement, or understanding what was going on). 

But no, I made all that stuff up LOL.. Thanks for your post. 

Edited October 11, 2020 by Mutex