What makes humans different from all the rest

[Vmedvil]

15 minutes ago, Moontanman said:

I never made that claim, as I have said, this is a science forum, what you believe is immaterial, if you cannot back up your claims then do not make them. I am going to bring back the science in this forum, do not make assertions about belief or opinions unless you can back them up.  

Hell, I will give it a shot, Links = Google DeepMind CEO Says AI May Become Self-Aware (futurism.com), https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5110243/,Differences in human and chimpanzee gene expression patterns define an evolving network of transcription factors in brain | PNAS, and The Hardwiring that Makes Us Human | The Brink | Boston University (bu.edu)

Basically, that is why I express that opinion on it.

Edited February 23 by Vmedvil

[Moontanman]

10 minutes ago, Vmedvil said:

Hell, I will give it a shot, Links = Google DeepMind CEO Says AI May Become Self-Aware (futurism.com), https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5110243/,Differences in human and chimpanzee gene expression patterns define an evolving network of transcription factors in brain | PNAS, and The Hardwiring that Makes Us Human | The Brink | Boston University (bu.edu)

Basically, that is why I express that opinion on it.

You need to break down each of those links and detail how they support your argument, I read them and see little to no connection. Your links are also human centric, humans and primates are not the only large brained organisms on the earth. 

[Vmedvil]

36 minutes ago, Moontanman said:

You need to break down each of those links and detail how they support your argument, I read them and see little to no connection. Your links are also human centric, humans and primates are not the only large brained organisms on the earth. 

This is one piece of evidence; I want to put forward that supports that, which is the size of their monkey brains are smaller.

"Gorillas and orangutans are primates at least as large as humans, but their brains amount to about one third of the size of the human brain. This discrepancy has been used as evidence that the human brain is about 3 times larger than it should be for a primate species of its body size."

Link = https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21228547/

Let's see, This too, it has something to do with this genetic change between primates and humans in the proliferation of neuron cells.

"Human neocortex expansion likely contributed to the remarkable cognitive abilities of humans. This expansion is thought to primarily reflect differences in proliferation versus differentiation of neural progenitors during cortical development. Here, we have searched for such differences by analysing cerebral organoids from human and chimpanzees using immunohistofluorescence, live imaging, and single-cell transcriptomics. We find that the cytoarchitecture, cell type composition, and neurogenic gene expression programs of humans and chimpanzees are remarkably similar. Notably, however, live imaging of apical progenitor mitosis uncovered a lengthening of prometaphase-metaphase in humans compared to chimpanzees that is specific to proliferating progenitors and not observed in non-neural cells. Consistent with this, the small set of genes more highly expressed in human apical progenitors points to increased proliferative capacity, and the proportion of neurogenic basal progenitors is lower in humans. These subtle differences in cortical progenitors between humans and chimpanzees may have consequences for human neocortex evolution."

Furthermore, This shows the differences in gene expression between humans and the great apes in their brains.

"To enable an accurate comparison of TF gene expression and network structure in human and chimpanzee brain, we devised a strategy to reliably distinguish expression levels of individual gene family members. Our analysis of an established dataset (11) uncovered 90 TF genes that are differentially expressed and revealed that they are organized in a coexpression network comprised of two modules with distinct functions. Both modules are enriched for primate-specific KRAB-ZNF genes, which despite their recent advent are robustly embedded in the chimpanzee and human brain networks. Our results implicate a network of TFs with differential expression in human and chimpanzee brain involved in regulation of energy metabolism, vesicle transport, and related functions required to build and maintain the larger and more complex human brain."

Furthermore, This shows that more cortical neurons are generated during fetal development in humans.

"Humans relative to chimpanzees involves an increase in the number of cortical neurons generated during fetal development (Borrell and Reillo, 2012; Florio and Huttner, 2014; Herculano-Houzel, 2009; Lui et al., 2011). This reflects primarily a greater and prolonged proliferative capacity of human neural stem and progenitor cells (NSPCs) within the germinal zones of the developing neocortex (Lewitus et al., 2013). Unravelling differences between human and chimpanzee NSPC behaviour is therefore a key issue, yet very little is known about such differences."

This shows that it has something to do with increased number of cells.

"We have suggested that it is the great apes that might have evolved bodies that are unusually large, on the basis of our recent finding that the cellular composition of the human brain matches that expected for a primate brain of its size, making the human brain a linearly scaled-up primate brain in its number of cells."

This shows that the Neanderthals our ancestors had around 80 billion neuron cells and likely humans favored higher neuron counts.

"We then used those scaling rules and published estimated brain volumes for various hominin species to predict the numbers of neurons that composed their brains. We predict that Homo heidelbergensis and Homo neanderthalensis had brains with approximately 80 billion neurons, within the range of variation found in modern Homo sapiens. We propose that while the cellular scaling rules that apply to the primate brain have remained stable in hominin evolution (since they apply to simians, great apes and modern humans alike), the Colobinae and Pongidae lineages favored marked increases in body size rather than brain size from the common ancestor with the Homo lineage, while the Homo lineage seems to have favored a large brain instead of a large body, possibly due to the metabolic limitations to having both."

Link = Differences and similarities between human and chimpanzee neural progenitors during cerebral cortex development - PMC (nih.gov) and Differences in human and chimpanzee gene expression patterns define an evolving network of transcription factors in brain | PNAS

This shows that the human Pre-Frontal Cortex processes consciousness according to this article.

"Our cognition, or “what makes us human,” is centered in the prefrontal cortex, the most evolved part of the brain, located just behind our foreheads, says Helen Barbas, a Boston University College of Health & Rehabilitation Sciences: Sargent College professor of health sciences. The drives that keep us alive, like hunger and fear, are activated in the hypothalamus and the amygdala, two clusters of neurons deep inside each of the brain’s hemispheres. The amygdala also interprets sensory information; for example, identifying the scent of food or the sound of a predator’s growl.

Researchers tend to consider these areas separately, and “the idea that emotions are not irrational, that they make up a very important part of decision-making, is relatively new” for neuroscience, Barbas says. By mapping the pathways that transmit information throughout the brain, she reveals that the regions for processing emotions and thoughts are inextricably linked—and sundering them “is detrimental to our well-being.”

Until the early 1970s, researchers considered the prefrontal cortex too functionally complex to understand through experimentation. They had found that in a subject under anesthesia, less functionally intricate areas of the brain responded to stimuli; for example, the neurons in the visual area of the brain fired in response to a light shined into the eye. But when the researchers tried to engage the prefrontal cortex, they found it unresponsive and dubbed it the “silent cortex.”

Today, neuroscientists like Barbas know this area is anything but silent. “The prefrontal cortex gets information and does something with it; it’s not just a receiver of information like the sensory areas,” she says. The meaning of the information is important to the prefrontal cortex, and processing it requires consciousness."

Link = The Hardwiring that Makes Us Human | The Brink | Boston University (bu.edu)

My conclusion is probably an increased number of neurons in the prefrontal cortex makes us "Human and capable of higher-level thoughts" and Apes just don't have the neuron counts to achieve consciousness within the prefrontal cortex and higher-level thought. This having something to do with 90 genes that control expression of neuron structure and proliferation with humans which act differently in primates during fetal development.

Edited February 23 by Vmedvil

[Moontanman]

6 minutes ago, Vmedvil said:

This is one piece of evidence; I want to put forward that supports that, which is the size of their monkey brains are smaller.

"Gorillas and orangutans are primates at least as large as humans, but their brains amount to about one third of the size of the human brain. This discrepancy has been used as evidence that the human brain is about 3 times larger than it should be for a primate species of its body size."

Link = https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21228547/

Let's see, This too, it has something to do with this genetic change between primates and humans in the proliferation of neuron cells.

"Human neocortex expansion likely contributed to the remarkable cognitive abilities of humans. This expansion is thought to primarily reflect differences in proliferation versus differentiation of neural progenitors during cortical development. Here, we have searched for such differences by analysing cerebral organoids from human and chimpanzees using immunohistofluorescence, live imaging, and single-cell transcriptomics. We find that the cytoarchitecture, cell type composition, and neurogenic gene expression programs of humans and chimpanzees are remarkably similar. Notably, however, live imaging of apical progenitor mitosis uncovered a lengthening of prometaphase-metaphase in humans compared to chimpanzees that is specific to proliferating progenitors and not observed in non-neural cells. Consistent with this, the small set of genes more highly expressed in human apical progenitors points to increased proliferative capacity, and the proportion of neurogenic basal progenitors is lower in humans. These subtle differences in cortical progenitors between humans and chimpanzees may have consequences for human neocortex evolution."

Furthermore, This shows the differences in gene expression between humans and the great apes in their brains.

"To enable an accurate comparison of TF gene expression and network structure in human and chimpanzee brain, we devised a strategy to reliably distinguish expression levels of individual gene family members. Our analysis of an established dataset (11) uncovered 90 TF genes that are differentially expressed and revealed that they are organized in a coexpression network comprised of two modules with distinct functions. Both modules are enriched for primate-specific KRAB-ZNF genes, which despite their recent advent are robustly embedded in the chimpanzee and human brain networks. Our results implicate a network of TFs with differential expression in human and chimpanzee brain involved in regulation of energy metabolism, vesicle transport, and related functions required to build and maintain the larger and more complex human brain."

Furthermore, This shows that more cortical neurons are generated during fetal development in humans.

"Humans relative to chimpanzees involves an increase in the number of cortical neurons generated during fetal development (Borrell and Reillo, 2012; Florio and Huttner, 2014; Herculano-Houzel, 2009; Lui et al., 2011). This reflects primarily a greater and prolonged proliferative capacity of human neural stem and progenitor cells (NSPCs) within the germinal zones of the developing neocortex (Lewitus et al., 2013). Unravelling differences between human and chimpanzee NSPC behaviour is therefore a key issue, yet very little is known about such differences."

This shows that it has something to do with increased number of cells.

"We have suggested that it is the great apes that might have evolved bodies that are unusually large, on the basis of our recent finding that the cellular composition of the human brain matches that expected for a primate brain of its size, making the human brain a linearly scaled-up primate brain in its number of cells."

This shows that the Neanderthals our ancestors had around 80 billion neuron cells and likely humans favored higher neuron counts.

"We then used those scaling rules and published estimated brain volumes for various hominin species to predict the numbers of neurons that composed their brains. We predict that Homo heidelbergensis and Homo neanderthalensis had brains with approximately 80 billion neurons, within the range of variation found in modern Homo sapiens. We propose that while the cellular scaling rules that apply to the primate brain have remained stable in hominin evolution (since they apply to simians, great apes and modern humans alike), the Colobinae and Pongidae lineages favored marked increases in body size rather than brain size from the common ancestor with the Homo lineage, while the Homo lineage seems to have favored a large brain instead of a large body, possibly due to the metabolic limitations to having both."

Link = Differences and similarities between human and chimpanzee neural progenitors during cerebral cortex development - PMC (nih.gov) and Differences in human and chimpanzee gene expression patterns define an evolving network of transcription factors in brain | PNAS

This shows that the human Pre-Frontal Cortex processes consciousness according to this article.

"Our cognition, or “what makes us human,” is centered in the prefrontal cortex, the most evolved part of the brain, located just behind our foreheads, says Helen Barbas, a Boston University College of Health & Rehabilitation Sciences: Sargent College professor of health sciences. The drives that keep us alive, like hunger and fear, are activated in the hypothalamus and the amygdala, two clusters of neurons deep inside each of the brain’s hemispheres. The amygdala also interprets sensory information; for example, identifying the scent of food or the sound of a predator’s growl.

Researchers tend to consider these areas separately, and “the idea that emotions are not irrational, that they make up a very important part of decision-making, is relatively new” for neuroscience, Barbas says. By mapping the pathways that transmit information throughout the brain, she reveals that the regions for processing emotions and thoughts are inextricably linked—and sundering them “is detrimental to our well-being.”

Until the early 1970s, researchers considered the prefrontal cortex too functionally complex to understand through experimentation. They had found that in a subject under anesthesia, less functionally intricate areas of the brain responded to stimuli; for example, the neurons in the visual area of the brain fired in response to a light shined into the eye. But when the researchers tried to engage the prefrontal cortex, they found it unresponsive and dubbed it the “silent cortex.”

Today, neuroscientists like Barbas know this area is anything but silent. “The prefrontal cortex gets information and does something with it; it’s not just a receiver of information like the sensory areas,” she says. The meaning of the information is important to the prefrontal cortex, and processing it requires consciousness."

Link = The Hardwiring that Makes Us Human | The Brink | Boston University (bu.edu)

My conclusion is probably an increased number of neurons in the prefrontal cortex makes us "Human and capable of higher-level thoughts" and Apes just don't have the neuron counts to achieve consciousness within the prefrontal cortex and higher-level thought. This having something to do with 90 genes that control expression of neuron structure and proliferation with humans which act differently in primates during fetal development.

Ok, you are suggesting hat humans have bigger brains and therefore are capable of more than apes in the intelligence department.  What does this mean for Dolphins, Sperm whales  and Elephants all of which have bigger brains than humans. Elephant brains are 3 times as big as a human and a sperm whale is 6 times as big as a human. Does this mean they are even more advanced in their emotional behaviors and or higher level thoughts than we are?     

[Vmedvil]

Just now, Moontanman said:

Ok, you are suggesting hat humans have bigger brains and therefore are capable of more than apes in the intelligence department.  What does this mean for Dolphins, Sperm whales  and Elephants all of which have bigger brains than humans. Elephant brains are 3 times as big as a human and a sperm whale is 6 times as big as a human. Does this mean they are even more advanced in their emotional behaviors and or higher level thoughts than we are?     

I am uncertain, I was looking at the differences between the great apes and humans, I am uncertain about other animals and humans, I would need a genetic analysis of their brains versus humans to look at.

[Vmedvil]

2 minutes ago, Moontanman said:

Ok, you are suggesting hat humans have bigger brains and therefore are capable of more than apes in the intelligence department.  What does this mean for Dolphins, Sperm whales  and Elephants all of which have bigger brains than humans. Elephant brains are 3 times as big as a human and a sperm whale is 6 times as big as a human. Does this mean they are even more advanced in their emotional behaviors and or higher level thoughts than we are?     

But one article did suggest it had something to do with the neuron counts in the prefrontal cortex specifically.

[Moontanman]

Just now, Vmedvil said:

But one article did suggest it had something to do with the neuron counts in the prefrontal cortex specifically.

Yes, but for that to be significant in this case you would have to know the neuron counts in those animals as well as humans and other apes.   

[Vmedvil]

1 minute ago, Moontanman said:

Yes, but for that to be significant in this case you would have to know the neuron counts in those animals as well as humans and other apes.   

This is true.