REASON Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 Here you go Moontan! :D The problem here, freezy, is that they answer ya or da, and you don't know which one means yes or no, so you can't fill in the grid with any certainty. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modest Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 Here you go Moontan! :D What if you got these responses?: Or these: If 2 give the same answers, I don't think you could differentiate. ~modest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modest Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 The problem here, freezy, is that they answer ya or da, and you don't know which one means yes or no, so you can't fill in the grid with any certainty. :D I think Freezy's first question (do you lie) would have to have more no's than yes's... so the not knowing the language seems like a red herring to me. Most any question should tell us which means no and which means yes. Unless I'm misunderstanding something... ~modest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamela Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 hey Modest, I thought the same at first but then I decided that I am assuming all three would answer.When in truth, I can only look at one at a time and ask-hence looking at each one would suggest 3 questions per each main question for a total of 9 questions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modest Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 hey Modest, I thought the same at first but then I decided that I am assuming all three would answer.When in truth, I can only look at one at a time and ask-hence looking at each one would suggest 3 questions per each main question for a total of 9 questions I think that would make the riddle far from possible. With 3 questions and 3 gods, there should be 9 answers. Is that right, Moontanman? ~modest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Honey Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 Quote:Originally Posted by Moontanman View PostHow about this one. You are in a room with three gods, one is the god of truth, one is the god of lies and the other is the god of truth and lies. The god of truth only tells the truth, the god of lies only tells lies and the god of both only tells a lie or the truth at random. They can only answer in a language known only to them and they can only answer yes and no, ya and da in their language but you don't know what either word means. how can you ask them only three questions (total) to find out which one is which? The three questions1. To the god of truth - Are you the god of truth ?2. To the god of lies - Are you the god of lies ?3. To the god of truth and lies - Are you the god of truth and lies ? Working on it ??? William They can only answer yes and no, ya and da in their language. Ya and dahere mean yes and no. Ya is yes and da is no. This is what makes senseto me. Also three questions total could mean three questions to each god making a total of nine questions and nine answers. My three questions above to each god should solve this riddle by process of elimination ?? William Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 If I understand correctly, then this should work: To find out what means yes and what means no, you could ask “are you the god of truth”. The answer that at least 2 of 3 give would mean “yes”. If all three answer the same then no further info is gained. If one answers differently then that one is the god of truth and lies. Next question: are you the god of lies?The answers will either be two yes and one no... or... two no and one yes. In the case that the previous question told us which was the god of truth and lies then this question will tell us which is the god of truth and which is the god of lies. The god of truth will answer no and the god of lies will answer yes - we have all 3. But, if the previous question didn’t answer who the god of truth and lies is then we need to deduce further. Whoever answered differently than the other 2 to this question cannot be the god of truth and lies. If a god said “no” while the other two said “yes” then that is the god of truth. If a god said “yes” while the other two said “no” then that is the god of lies. We now at the very least have the god of truth or the god of lies. Having one of these, you now simply point to one of the two unknowns and say “is this the god of truth and lies?” If we know the god of truth then we can trust a truthful answer solving the puzzle (by getting 2 of 3). If the previous question gave us the god of lies then we can trust the answer will be false solving the rest of the puzzle. ya/da? ~modest EDIT: this won't work... give me a sec... closest I've seen so far, I'm impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeztar Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 What if you got these responses?: Or these: If 2 give the same answers, I don't think you could differentiate. ~modest Good point! It was meant to get the juices flowing. Perhaps we should see what each matrix would look like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REASON Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 They can only answer yes and no, ya and da in their language. Ya and dahere mean yes and no. Ya is yes and da is no. This is what makes senseto me. Also three questions total could mean three questions to each god making a total of nine questions and nine answers. My three questions above to each god should solve this riddle by process of elimination ?? William Simply deciding that ya means yes and da means no is an unacceptable approach. The fact is, we don't know which is which initially. Secondly:I think Freezy's first question (do you lie) would have to have more no's than yes's... so the not knowing the language seems like a red herring to me. Most any question should tell us which means no and which means yes. Unless I'm misunderstanding something...This is also inconclusive because the god of truth and lies will randomly say yes or no, so there is no guarantee that the question "do you lie" will yield more no's than yes's. What I think needs to be determined is whether we can expect nine answers to the three questions asked, or if we can only direct one question to one of the three gods. Any clarification on that Moon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 I think that would make the riddle far from possible. With 3 questions and 3 gods, there should be 9 answers. Is that right, Moontanman? ~modest That would be my understanding of the riddle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeztar Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 Here's my take so far... It's easy to see who's telling the truth, but who's lying? Statistically, so far with my thinking and matrix, it's 50/50. But I'm obviously missing something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modest Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 I think Freezy's first question (do you lie) would have to have more no's than yes's... so the not knowing the language seems like a red herring to me. Most any question should tell us which means no and which means yes. Unless I'm misunderstanding something...This is also inconclusive because the god of truth and lies will randomly say yes or no, so there is no guarantee that the question "do you lie" will yield more no's than yes's. Both the god of truth and the god of lies must answer no to the question "do you lie?". Therefore, to find out what means yes and what means no all you have to do is ask "are you the god of lies?" Whatever answer is given by a majority of the gods means "no". You could also ask "are you the god of truth" - the majority response will mean "yes". This is regardless of the answer given by the god of truth and lies. I really think post 1462 will work as a solution to the riddle. ~modest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REASON Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 Both the god of truth and the god of lies must answer no to the question "do you lie?". Therefore, to find out what means yes and what means no all you have to do is ask "are you the god of lies?" Whatever answer is given by a majority of the gods means "no". You could also ask "are you the god of truth" - the majority response will mean "yes". This is regardless of the answer given by the god of truth and lies. My turn. :);) Yes, that is obvious isn't it? I really think post 1462 will work as a solution to the riddle. ~modest Of course I missed reading your revised solution. After reading it, I agree that it would be an acceptable solution. Good job, modest. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 Thanks Modest, it had me completely stumped, now I can send the solution to my son and claim to be a genius! It is tempting but just kidding. No I'm not, yes you are, ya da da ya! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBill Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 I just jumped in, 148 pages later, and don't know if this one's been thrown onto the table yet, but here it is: Three Indians, all part of the same family, are sitting in a circle in their teepee, passing around their long-stem pipe. The first Indian takes a deep draw and passes to the Indian on his left, who says to him "Thank you, Father." The second Indian takes a deep draw, and then passes it on, saying "Here Son, it's your turn." The third Indian takes his draw on the pipe and passes it on, saying "Your turn again, Grandpa." Now, the facts are that the first Indian is truly the father of the second Indian, and the grandfather of the third Indian, and the third Indian is truly the son of the second Indian and grandson of the first Indian. However, the second Indian is neither the son of the first indian, nor the father of the third Indian. Who is the second Indian? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 I just jumped in, 148 pages later, and don't know if this one's been thrown onto the table yet, but here it is: Three Indians, all part of the same family, are sitting in a circle in their teepee, passing around their long-stem pipe. The first Indian takes a deep draw and passes to the Indian on his left, who says to him "Thank you, Father." The second Indian takes a deep draw, and then passes it on, saying "Here Son, it's your turn." The third Indian takes his draw on the pipe and passes it on, saying "Your turn again, Grandpa." Now, the facts are that the first Indian is truly the father of the second Indian, and the grandfather of the third Indian, and the third Indian is truly the son of the second Indian and grandson of the first Indian. However, the second Indian is neither the son of the first indian, nor the father of the third Indian. Who is the second Indian? The momma Indian! Not the momma, not the momma, not the momma :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBill Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 The Momma Indian is correct! How 'bout this oldie: "Not my sister, not my brother, yet it's a child of my father & mother." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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