Back to the Moon in 2018

[Tormod]

It's happening!

 

NASA to Unveil Plans to Send 4 Astronauts to Moon in 2018

 

WASHINGTON – NASA briefed senior White House officials Wednesday on its plan to spend $100 billion and the next 12 years building the spacecraft and rockets it needs to put humans back on the Moon by 2018.

 

The U.S. space agency now expects to roll out its lunar exploration plan to key Congressional committees on Friday and to the broader public through a news conference on Monday, Washington sources tell SPACE.com.

 

49 years between the first landing and the first mission with more than three people (and 46 years since the last mission) they're going back.

 

Well, at the moment NASA can't even keep the space shuttle flying so this will be interesting. I for one hope they see this through.

 

I'm crossing my fingers that the Chinese get there first, though...we need another space race. :evil:

 

Edit: Forgot the link

http://www.space.com/news/050914_nasa_cev_update.html

[Jay-qu]

yeah I would love to see some more action up there, its a pain that there just isnt enough motivation for governments to spend endless amounts of money in space. Australia for one just has no need for a space program, but it would be so cool if it did.

[damocles]

I have no faith in the Shuttle Evolved (Derivative) Vehicle Scheme.

 

I rather put my money on this cluster rocketed bunch;

 

http://www.spacex.com/

 

and these guys;

 

http://www.arianespace.com/site/index2.html

 

as well as these guys;

 

http://www.nasda.go.jp/projects/rockets/index_e.html

 

I seriously doubt the competence of this bunch;

 

http://www.nasa.gov/

[Tormod]

I think NASA has the competence...but Arianespace will have to survive their financial problems before ESA can even hope to launch astronauts into space themselves. SpaceX is very, very interesting, though.

[Jay-qu]

are private companies 'allowed' to launch space missions?

[BlameTheEx]

Why are we swallowing this bullshit?

The moon has already been done. There is no earthly reason for people to go back, and more to the point they won't. At least not until the costs drop to the point of lunar tourism. The moon is so boring that since the Apollo mission NASA hasn't even sent a rover.

 

Consider the possible justifications:

 

1) Scoring political points.

 

In politics get points for what you are going to do, not what you have done. Points for making the announcement then having NASA spend X billion dollars developing the idea. The first trick is to make sure the development comes mostly out of NASA's current budget (So already developed projects have to be cancelled). The next trick is to set a longish deadline so that the actual construction and bulk of the costs fall on a future administration. Naturally that future administration will cancel the project but that's politics.

 

2) "No bucks without Buck Roger"

 

The true justification for manned exploration. America's eternal willingness to buy heroes. But how heroic is it to do what has already been done?

 

3) Lunar base for missions to the planets.

 

To land on the moon takes fuel. To get off costs more fuel. The maths just doesn't add up unless such a base can produce rocket fuel, and probably not then. In essence rocket fuel is made from water and the moon is dry. Even if it could be done sending men to find out is not cost effective. Robots are much cheaper. If robots have discovered the necessary raw materials and technology is available for creating a lunar base that is makes going to the planets CHEAPER then, and only then, should we be planning manned missions.

[rockytriton]

Just out of curiosity Tormod, why do you hope that the Chinese get there first? Is it to put fire under NASA to get them moving faster?

[Tormod]

Just out of curiosity Tormod, why do you hope that the Chinese get there first? Is it to put fire under NASA to get them moving faster?

 

Indeed. :) I think a new space race would be very good for space exploration and the space industry. It would also make sure that the public scrutiny of the Chinese space program would increase...leaving less room for military purposes.

[Tormod]

are private companies 'allowed' to launch space missions?

 

This would be regulated by national aviation authorities. In the US it is the Federal Aviation Authority (I think!) - http://www.faa.gov

[Tormod]

Why are we swallowing this bullshit?

The moon has already been done. There is no earthly reason for people to go back, and more to the point they won't. At least not until the costs drop to the point of lunar tourism. The moon is so boring that since the Apollo mission NASA hasn't even sent a rover.

 

Why do we keep going back to the Americas? Been there, done that. Since Columbus we haven't even found a shorter route to India that way.

 

Frankly, the moon is an extremely exiting place. It holds clues to the origin of our own planet. It is the only extraterrestrial body that we can hope to have regular exploration of within the foreseeable future. We can learn a lot about long term space travels by establishing a base there.

 

It is an important frontier. You see it as bullshit, fine. I see it as a huge opportunity to take some serious steps into manned exploration of our solar system.

[Turtle]

To land on the moon takes fuel. To get off costs more fuel. The maths just doesn't add up unless such a base can produce rocket fuel, and probably not then. In essence rocket fuel is made from water and the moon is dry. Even if it could be done sending men to find out is not cost effective. Robots are much cheaper. If robots have discovered the necessary raw materials and technology is available for creating a lunar base that is makes going to the planets CHEAPER then, and only then, should we be planning manned missions.

 

___Current discoveries by Moon orbiting satellite suggest the Moon is not dry. I'll find a link in a bit.

___I agree robots make sense for a lot of exploration, but as Tormod mentioned, there is an element of humanity that seems to drive us to go explore. As to the money, if it is a waste it is not our biggest waste.

___To say the Moon is boring & nothing left to discover is to put it scientifically, naiive. Little principle called emergence/synergy is reason enough to keep exploring. As so much of the Earth's current condition relies on the Moon it is reasonable to better understand it. Our Moon is unique in our solar system is many ways, e.g. no other planet has a moon so large in comparison to its own mass.

____I'll go find that link. :doh:

 

http://www.nature.com/news/2003/030324/full/030324-3.html

 

http://www.physorg.com/news3756.html

 

http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/ice/ice_moon.html

[rockytriton]

hmm.... I wonder what impact this will have on it:

http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20050928/1a_bottomstrip28.art.htm

 

"NASA administrator says space shuttle was a mistake"

[Tormod]

hmm.... I wonder what impact this will have on it:

http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20050928/1a_bottomstrip28.art.htm

 

"NASA administrator says space shuttle was a mistake"

 

I actually agree. The shuttle was a mistake. There was a need for transport to and from orbit. The shuttle is the most expensive and also technologically the most difficult solution.

 

The Russian Soyuz and the American Saturn V rockets far outperform the shuttle! The only thing the shuttle can do that the others can't, is land like a plane.

[rockytriton]

yes, if they stop focusing on the shuttle, then they will probably be able to get their stuff together and work on a mission to the moon without distractions. I just finished with Richard Feynman's book "What do you care what other people think?", he has a large section where he talks about what he went through while on the commission to discover what went wrong with the Challenger shuttle, a very interesting read.

[Tormod]

Oh, I loved that book! And his fantastically simple way of demonstrating what went wrong is stunning.

[UncleAl]

It's happening!

A skeptic's view,

 

http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/moon2.htm

[Tormod]

A skeptic's view,

 

http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/moon2.htm

 

UA, you should write a column for Hypography.