Has Science Left Philosphy in the Nineteenth Century?

[ArthurSmith]

I refer to philosophy of science. It seems to be regarded by scientists today as quaint and unnecessary. Is there a need for philosophers to update to the twenty-first century? 

[Cenderawasih]

I'd agree that--unfortunately--it does seem to be the case that a great many scientists nowadays are hostile to the philosophy of science, even while knowing little or nothing about it. 

It's a pity. Because those philosophically-naive scientists (e.g. Dawkins, Krauss, deGrasse Tyson, Hawking, etc.), while no doubt expert in their own specialist fields, have a nasty habit of saying very stupid and very ignorant and very false things about science as a whole.

Ask any philosopher or historian of science. It's no secret.

Take this, for example . . .

 

Edited January 12, 2022 by Cenderawasih

[Cenderawasih]

Unfortunately the thread I linked to above is a bit of an incoherent mess now on the grounds that one of the main contributors, TheVat, deleted his account (or it was deleted for him by staff upon his request), and as a result every post he ever made on this site has also vanished into thin air.

 

Another pity. TheVat is a personal friend of mine, worked as admin on another (now defunct) science-philosophy site for many years, and an extremely intelligent, knowledgable man in any number of areas.

 

A great loss to your site, I'd say.

[ArthurSmith]

26 minutes ago, Cenderawasih said:

Unfortunately the thread I linked to above is a bit of an incoherent mess now on the grounds that one of the main contributors, TheVat, deleted his account (or it was deleted for him by staff upon his request), and as a result every post he ever made on this site has also vanished into thin air.

 

Another pity. TheVat is a personal friend of mine, worked as admin on another (now defunct) science-philosophy site for many years, and an extremely intelligent, knowledgable man in any number of areas.

 

A great loss to your site, I'd say.

That's unfortunate, though not unprecedented. Even it was at his own request it's a bit like erasing history. 

[Cenderawasih]

Yes, sir. Not to mention that removing all of a member's posts makes a pig's breakfast of every thread he ever contributed to.

[ArthurSmith]

Happened to me once. Was invited to do a guest post on a pro-intelligent-design site. The opening post was technically by the guy inviting me and I participated in the comment thread. Lively discussion ensued, over a thousand comments over a couple of days, then I find I can no longer log in and all my comments disappeared. The site owner had decided to end my participation for good. The OP is still there along with the surreal comment thread. That site has not thrived since. But then neither has "Intelligent Design".

Edited January 13, 2022 by ArthurSmith

[OceanBreeze]

11 hours ago, Cenderawasih said:

Unfortunately the thread I linked to above is a bit of an incoherent mess now on the grounds that one of the main contributors, TheVat, deleted his account (or it was deleted for him by staff upon his request), and as a result every post he ever made on this site has also vanished into thin air.

 

Another pity. TheVat is a personal friend of mine, worked as admin on another (now defunct) science-philosophy site for many years, and an extremely intelligent, knowledgable man in any number of areas.

 

A great loss to your site, I'd say.

I agree it is a loss to the site as I considered his posts to be well thought out. But it was done at his own request, and his reasons were not clear. Along with his request he did decide to add pot shots aimed directly at me, which I found to be very strange since I had no interaction with him or any of his posts. So, not only was it his own request to delete his account, but he also broke the rule about attacking moderation in the open forum. If anyone has a problem with moderation, they should take it up directly with the moderator or admin with a PM, not disrupt the forum. In any case, I was sorry that he left us, but I only complied with his own request.

[ArthurSmith]

As I said, I'm new to this site. The accident that brought me here coincided with a short period of "enforced" bed rest with a respiratory infection that is rapidly subsiding but gave me ample opportunity to indulge my internet addiction. In looking back through old threads on this site, I see it has been going for twenty years and was the brainchild of one Tormod from Oslo. So congratulations, Science Forums on reaching the double-decade!

[GregSamsa]

The poster, TheVat, had requested his account closed, and not the deletion of his posts.  Most software allows accounts to be closed without deleting posts.  And IIRC, he was asking for a moderator to deal with what looked to be a deluge of Far Right propaganda threads in Political forum.  I think the confusion, based on his comment elsewhere on the web, was that he thought mods were favoring a particular partisan ideology, when it was more likely you have insufficient mods here to watch all the forums.  Hope that clarifies things.  (I myself was a bit shocked at the level of misinformation contained in the "Viktor" posts -- also confusing, given there is a long-term member with similar moniker!)

[OceanBreeze]

8 hours ago, GregSamsa said:

The poster, TheVat, had requested his account closed, and not the deletion of his posts.  Most software allows accounts to be closed without deleting posts.  And IIRC, he was asking for a moderator to deal with what looked to be a deluge of Far Right propaganda threads in Political forum.  I think the confusion, based on his comment elsewhere on the web, was that he thought mods were favoring a particular partisan ideology, when it was more likely you have insufficient mods here to watch all the forums.  Hope that clarifies things.  (I myself was a bit shocked at the level of misinformation contained in the "Viktor" posts -- also confusing, given there is a long-term member with similar moniker!)

How do you know what he asked for? His specific words were that he wanted his account deleted. By using the word deleted, my understanding was he wanted his posts gone as well. Also, this is a science forum but there is room for political discussion. Sometimes it goes to the Left and sometimes to the Right. Lately, it has been leaning to the Right but anyone on the Left is free to engage in countering that. It is not the moderator's job to try and influence which way the political winds are blowing. To be totally transparent, my political leanings are to the Right and I have the same rights as any other member to express my Opinion on any subject. My posts don't carry any more weight than any other member, except when I am dealing with a moderation issue. Again, I am sorry the poster The Vat left us, but he said this forum was a bad fit for him, he attacked the moderation, (me) even though I had zero interaction with him, and he asked that his account be Deleted, not just closed. I hope that clarifies things.

[Vmedvil2]

On 1/14/2022 at 12:19 AM, OceanBreeze said:

How do you know what he asked for? His specific words were that he wanted his account deleted. By using the word deleted, my understanding was he wanted his posts gone as well. Also, this is a science forum but there is room for political discussion. Sometimes it goes to the Left and sometimes to the Right. Lately, it has been leaning to the Right but anyone on the Left is free to engage in countering that. It is not the moderator's job to try and influence which way the political winds are blowing. To be totally transparent, my political leanings are to the Right and I have the same rights as any other member to express my Opinion on any subject. My posts don't carry any more weight than any other member, except when I am dealing with a moderation issue. Again, I am sorry the poster The Vat left us, but he said this forum was a bad fit for him, he attacked the moderation, (me) even though I had zero interaction with him, and he asked that his account be Deleted, not just closed. I hope that clarifies things.

**** em, oceanbreeze, they don't matter. This is our cesspool of threads!

 

Edited January 16, 2022 by VictorMedvil

[OceanBreeze]

While I agree with the sentiment Vic, it is good for the forum discussions to have new members. However, if a member decides he doesn't like it here, he or she is always free to just move on. There is no need to close the account unless the member requests it for some reason. In this case, the request was to Delete the account, which means removing his posts also. I don't usually do that except with spammers, but his request was very clearly expressed, so I did what he asked. If now he is having second thoughts I can reinstate him, but unfortunately I cannot recover his previous posts.

[Cenderawasih]

7 hours ago, OceanBreeze said:

While I agree with the sentiment Vic, it is good for the forum discussions to have new members. However, if a member decides he doesn't like it here, he or she is always free to just move on. There is no need to close the account unless the member requests it for some reason. In this case, the request was to Delete the account, which means removing his posts also. I don't usually do that except with spammers, but his request was very clearly expressed, so I did what he asked. If now he is having second thoughts I can reinstate him, but unfortunately I cannot recover his previous posts.

 

Er, not quite, sir. I've spoken with TheVat. He asked for his account to be deleted; he did not ask for all his posts to be zapped. This is highly irregular, generally reserved for spammers and trolls, neither of which describe that gentle, clever man.

 

He was the main reason I came here. Guess I'll try to find another site now . . .

[Vmedvil2]

58 minutes ago, Cenderawasih said:

 

Er, not quite, sir. I've spoken with TheVat. He asked for his account to be deleted; he did not ask for all his posts to be zapped. This is highly irregular, generally reserved for spammers and trolls, neither of which describe that gentle, clever man.

 

He was the main reason I came here. Guess I'll try to find another site now . . .

Then get the hell out of here, stop wasting people's time over your pity party for Thevat. What do you think you are special or something?

Edited January 16, 2022 by VictorMedvil

[Cenderawasih]

Just now, VictorMedvil said:

Then get the hell out of here, stop wasting people's time over your pity party for Thevat. What do you think you are special or something?

 And if I needed another reason to leave, you're it, dude.

Don't you ever tire of flooding the site with your brainless logorrhoea?

[Vmedvil2]

35 minutes ago, Cenderawasih said:

 And if I needed another reason to leave, you're it, dude.

Don't you ever tire of flooding the site with your brainless logorrhoea?

Honestly, I don't really care this forum is just hosting and a platform to me that basically allow me to post anything I desire, no one reads anything on this forums anyways because cranks always post **** on this forums like you. This place is literally a hell that you live at when you have been banned from everything else due to sheer crankdom for 99% of the users look at polymath and you'll instantly know that is true. This is simply because the mods don't give a **** and oceanbreeze is one of the most chill mods on the internet, you could post literally anything on this forums and no one would give a ****. I dwell here because I literally give zero Forks and this place is a awesome place to dwell if you have the mentality that 99% of the posts on this forums are sheer crackpottery, doing whatever you want. So basically get out of here and don't talk to me I am busy trying to dispel crank's delusions because it is a special kind of fun to get them to know they are wrong and saying literal nonsense, while testing your own knowledge of the subject.

Edited January 16, 2022 by VictorMedvil

[OceanBreeze]

2 hours ago, Cenderawasih said:

 

Er, not quite, sir. I've spoken with TheVat. He asked for his account to be deleted; he did not ask for all his posts to be zapped. This is highly irregular, generally reserved for spammers and trolls, neither of which describe that gentle, clever man.

 

He was the main reason I came here. Guess I'll try to find another site now . . .

"He asked for his account to be deleted"

Exactly! What do you think the word "deleted" means?

delete

[dɪˈliːt]

VERB

remove or obliterate (written or printed matter), especially by drawing a line through it.

"the passage was deleted"

synonyms:

remove · cut out · take out · edit out · expunge · excise · eradicate

If he wanted it closed, that is an entirely different matter.

Furthermore, he could have just left without closing or deleting his account. Was he afraid he does not possess enough self control to just stay away?

The same applies to you, if you want to leave, just do so. There is no need to make a dramatic announcement of your departure. People come and go all the time here without posting their departure like some drama queen. I wish you well wherever you go. Your account will remain open if you decide to return. Bon Voyage!

Edited January 16, 2022 by OceanBreeze
clarification