America the myth

[Turtle]

Dateline Washington State: The atheist sign was stolen! :eek: My, my, my, my, my! Who would do a thing like that? :doh:

 

A controversial anti-religion placard was reported missing from the state Capitol - then later found - and now the sign's sponsor wants the State Patrol to provide special protection for it when it is returned. Several other groups clamored to post their own holiday displays. Read more » KOMO News - Seattle, Washington

 

Now this is all to go to the myth that America is a Christian nation (never mind the Constitution) and just how far the religious folk will go to enforce the myth. Here's a blast from the past on that note:

Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person's life, freedom of religion affects every individual. Religious institutions that use government power in support of themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths, or of no faith, undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of an established religion tends to make the clergy unresponsive to their own people, and leads to corruption within religion itself. Erecting the "wall of separation between church and state," therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/jefferson.htm

 

I'd say this is not over yet and I'm bettin' the nastiest business is goin' to come from the religious. How perfectly suiting. :phones:

 

If you have an opinion, why not let the Governor hear it? I have put in my call of support for Gregoire's response to the 'outrage'. . :phones:

 

Office of the Governor | PO Box 40002 | Olympia, WA 98504-0002

Phone: 360-902-4111 | FAX: 360-753-4110

Interact with Governor Gregoire

[charles brough]

Why is there so much antagonism to government in this thread?

 

The government is what we make it. We voted for those people.

 

Also, government is our only protection from the corporate world. It is not government that caused this present economic melt-down but businesses which we should have had our government regulate. After all, the whole corporate system is a product of government and depends upon government law. Even what a corporation is, is a product of government regulation and law. These corporations have no interest in public social welfare and are by nature geared only to make a profit for their stockholders. The affluent class would love to get us all to hate government so they can use government subsidies at you, the taxpayrer's expense. They want to eliminate social security, medicade and unions. They were behind trade agreements that took our jobs overseas and now want to break the unions so we can compete without own corporations outside the US.

 

Let the affluent classists take over govenment and they will succeed in eliminating the middle class. They are already half way there. Government is our only protection against them.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Re: America the myth

Why is there so much antagonism to government in this thread?

Because I hate being lied too, and America as presented to the masses is one hell of a doozy.

 

The government is what we make it. We voted for those people.

I didn't.

 

Also, government is our only protection from the corporate world.

Wrong....try again...it is bought and sold every day to the highest bidder by the corperate world...

 

Etc.etc..etc...

 

Let the affluent classists take over govenment and they will succeed in eliminating the middle class. They are already half way there. Government is our only protection against them.

Um.....yeah....and the fact that most of our govt. officials are typically affluent:shrug::singer:

 

As to you Mr. Turtle:naughty:

 

Why is it your presence always leaves me wondering....somewhat confused...and yearning for more?:)

 

As to the sign it could have been a little more tactful...Ie. keeping the first portion and leaving off

Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds."

which while accepted by many including myself to be true to some extent (there are those of faith that are very much decent kind folks) is a bit harsh.

[questor]

Disturbed, have you ever lived in a foreign country? Have you ever lived under a different system of government than the US?

[questor]

Turtle, you quoted Jefferson, ''Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person's life, freedom of religion affects every individual.''

Does this mean to you that Christianity should be abolished, ridiculed,and removed from public life? Do you feel the same about all religions? Would you say that religion has negatively affected or ruined some aspects of your life? Would you prefer that we eliminate the celebration of all religious holidays?

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Disturbed, have you ever lived in a foreign country? Have you ever lived under a different system of government than the US?

Spent a good bit of time in Canada (a few mo's) does that count?

[Buffy]

Spent a good bit of time in Canada (a few mo's) does that count?

Of course not. It's just the 51st state... <Buffy ducks while GAHD starts throwing bricksairplanes with big enough engines />

 

Canada is the essence of not being. Not English, not American, it is the mathematic of not being. And a subtle flavour - we're more like celery as a flavour, :phones:

Buffy

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Lol! (LMAO to all the above)

[Turtle]

Turtle, you quoted Jefferson, ''Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person's life, freedom of religion affects every individual.''

Does this mean to you that Christianity should be abolished, ridiculed,and removed from public life?

Do you feel the same about all religions?

Would you say that religion has negatively affected or ruined some aspects of your life?

Would you prefer that we eliminate the celebration of all religious holidays?

 

You conveniently left off the rest of the quote; allow me. (boldification, mine)

Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person's life, freedom of religion affects every individual. Religious institutions that use government power in support of themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths, or of no faith, undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of an established religion tends to make the clergy unresponsive to their own people, and leads to corruption within religion itself. Erecting the "wall of separation between church and state," therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.

 

Removed from public life? No. removed from government life, which the state capital building is part & parcel of. Ridiculed? Oh absolutely.

Feel the same about all religions? Yes; most assuredly.

Religion negatively affect me? Yes on occasion. Ruin? No; got that covered on my own.

Remove celebration of religious holidays? No; only the government sanction of same.

 

As to you Mr. Turtle

 

Why is it your presence always leaves me wondering....somewhat confused...and yearning for more?

 

As to the sign it could have been a little more tactful...Ie. keeping the first portion and leaving off

Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds.

 

which while accepted by many including myself to be true to some extent (there are those of faith that are very much decent kind folks) is a bit harsh.

 

I especially like the harsh part. :phones: As I say, the creche is there because the Christians put it there as a challenge to secularism and the separation of church & state as outlined in the US Constitution. The creche is there to provoke secularists and is there illegally in my opinion. The Jebus freaks threw the first punch and I'm all for seein' them get the metaphorical tar beat out of 'em for their effort. :phones:

That's a wrap for this even, but if'n ya wants more, I got it. :eek: :phones:

[questor]

DD and Turtle, correct me if I'm wrong:

You dislike the American government? You dislike many things about America? You dislike religious people? You are not pleased with the way things are going in the States? You don't think religion should be practiced in public? You continue to live here even though you are angry.

What are the things that give you pleasure in life, and where have you found them?

[Moontanman]

I dislike many things about The USA, I also like many more things about the USA, I love my country and the people that make it up. I cannot right off hand really say there is anything i hate about the USA. There are somethings I'd like to see changes, some things I'd like to see stay the same and some things i have no opinion on. I don't like the battle between religion and science, I think it's a fools errand that will only hurt both sides in the long run but so far the only way to make this running battle go away is for one side to surrender and I don't think that is going to happen. I think the "War on Drugs" is bullshit, every bit as much bull **** as Prohibition was. I think he Conservatives fear of giving their money to the poor is a smoke screen for people who are stingy and fear the lower classes. I think the idea that everyone should live a hail and hearty life whether they work of not is bullshit as well. somewhere there has to be a meeting of the minds on this problem. No society can survive if there is a huge discrepancy between the haves and have nots but the have nots need to not only give the effort to succeed they need the chance as well. In some cases this is a very difficult thing to judge but some people really have been suppressed by their upbringing. On the other hand greedy bastards who exploit everyone they can to make obcene amounts of money are not helping out society either. Again at some point a meeting of the minds needs to take place. We cannot go on with welfare for the rich but neglect the poor, we cannot arbitrarily take from the rich to give to the poor, in the long run everyone needs to earn their keep when ever possible. I can't imagine a life more hellish than simply sitting around doing nothing but wait for the "check" to come. some sort of realistic non punishment orientated encouragement must be put in place. The really great thing is we can change our society and fix what is wrong and change it to meet the needs of society as the needs of society change. If someone has knowledge of a better place to live I'd like to hear it. Lot so places that are good but none any better over all would be my guess and most not even close to as good.

[questor]

Moon, your quote: '' I think he Conservatives fear of giving their money to the poor is a smoke screen for people who are stingy and fear the lower classes.''

Who do you think are the major philanthropists in this country? I can give you a clue, the Rockefellers, Mellons, Carnegies, Gates and Buffets are not poor. Not all of them are conservative either, but I think they would agree that earning your own money is better than a handout. America does have a wealth disparity. How did the rich get rich? Figure that out and follow the same principles, maybe you'll get the same result. Why do the poor remain poor? Look at what they do and how they act and the decisions they make, doesn't that give you the answer?

What would you say is the best way to even the playing field? Would it be to make the rich pay more, or would it be to empower the poor to earn more? When you rob the rich to give to the poor, what do you get? Do you get a better society or do you get what we have now, a society that seems to hate their own country and thinks it is cool to refuse to pledge allegiance to it or honor its traditions?

The new administration will show us a different form of governing that will probably lean further toward socialism. Maybe that will please some people who have not made it with capitalism. We no longer have the United States, we have the Fragmented States and half the country seems to think it is good. I think any system which does not encourage and enable a person to be the best he can be will be left behind in the new global society.

[charles brough]

DEFINITELYDISTURBED, Please look back at your post and notice that the points you make are all bickering. Sure the politicians lie. It is because they have to make impossible promises in order to get elected. You don't vote for those people, however, you are different. The voters are wrong so you believe that voting, democratic systems are wrong? . . .that corporations are more honest and hence we don't need government to regulate them? And since government leaders have money does that mean they are as affluent and classist as the CEOs of corporations? Or are you just in a bad mood today . . . ?

[Turtle]

DD and Turtle, correct me if I'm wrong:

 

I've been correcting your wrongednest & misrepresentations of my posts for months in over a dozen threads here. Read my lips :hyper:; no more freebies for you. Viva la USA! Viva la libertad! Viva la Hypog! May they pleasure me to the grave. ;) :hyper: :eek:

[questor]

Turtle, you're correct. I must be reading you backwards when you say;

 

''Christmas? OK; got yer attention so now to the goods.

 

Atheist display at Capitol in Olympia creates national firestorm - Breaking News From Oregon & Portland - Oregonlive.com

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by AP

Atheist display at Capitol in Olympia creates national firestorm

Thursday December 04, 2008, 8:30 AM

 

 

A lighting ceremony for a holiday tree at the Washington Capitol at 6 p.m. Friday may draw more attention than usual.

 

That's because of a sign also displayed in the Rotunda at the request of the Freedom From Religion Foundation that calls religion "myth and superstition."

 

That has outraged Bill O'Reilly of Fox News who has been asking his viewers to call the governor to complain.

 

O'Reilly says displaying the sign with the tree and a Christian nativity scene is "political correctness gone mad."

 

Gov. Chris Gregoire says a federal lawsuit forced the state to allow displays regardless of views.

 

Heres the hating, narrow-minded, religious-zealot dissenting view.

 

Bill O'Reilly: Bill's Column

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by O Really?

Just in time for the Christmas season, the Governor of Washington State, Christine Gregoire, has insulted Christians all over the world. Inside the state capitol building in Olympia, there is a traditional holiday display featuring a tree and the Nativity scene-perfectly appropriate since the Christmas federal and state holiday celebrates the birth of Jesus in Bethlehem.

 

But this year, Governor Gregoire decided to add another item to the display. Standing alongside the baby Jesus is a giant placard designed by atheists that reads, "There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds."

 

You read that correctly. The governor of Washington State has permitted an attack on religion to be displayed in her office building as part of a Christmas presentation. ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Re: America the myth

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Dateline Washington State: The atheist sign was stolen! My, my, my, my, my! Who would do a thing like that?

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by KOMO

A controversial anti-religion placard was reported missing from the state Capitol - then later found - and now the sign's sponsor wants the State Patrol to provide special protection for it when it is returned. Several other groups clamored to post their own holiday displays. Read more » KOMO News - Seattle, Washington

 

Now this is all to go to the myth that America is a Christian nation (never mind the Constitution) and just how far the religious folk will go to enforce the myth. Here's a blast from the past on that note:

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Thomas Jefferson, to the Virginia Baptists (1808)

Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person's life, freedom of religion affects every individual. Religious institutions that use government power in support of themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths, or of no faith, undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of an established religion tends to make the clergy unresponsive to their own people, and leads to corruption within religion itself. Erecting the "wall of separation between church and state," therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.

 

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/.../jefferson.htm

 

I'd say this is not over yet and I'm bettin' the nastiest business is goin' to come from the religious. How perfectly suiting.

 

If you have an opinion, why not let the Governor hear it? I have put in my call of support for Gregoire's response to the 'outrage'. .''

 

I suppose this is support for religious tolerance? If and when the atheists can prove there is no God, can you describe what wonders will ensue?

 

More on religion:

'' Ridiculed? Oh absolutely.

Feel the same about all religions? Yes; most assuredly.

Religion negatively affect me? Yes on occasion.''

''I especially like the harsh part. As I say, the creche is there because the Christians put it there as a challenge to secularism and the separation of church & state as outlined in the US Constitution. The creche is there to provoke secularists and is there illegally in my opinion. The Jebus freaks threw the first punch and I'm all for seein' them get the metaphorical tar beat out of 'em for their effort.

That's a wrap for this even, but if'n ya wants more, I got it. ''

 

Where have I strayed? These seem like strong words for a person who believes in tolerance.

[Turtle]

Turtle, you're correct. I must be reading you backwards when you say;

...

Where have I strayed? These seem like strong words for a person who believes in tolerance.

 

Mmmm...you strayed by unecessarily quoting material you could have just referred to, and in assuming I 'believe' in tolerance. To the contrary, on the whole I am intolerant of ignorance, bad deeds, bad behavior, and a host of other human peccadillos that I encounter on this merry journey we call life. Don't tread on me, and I won't bite you.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

First off Mr.Turtle with regard to all of your above posts:bow:

 

Questor with regard to-

DD and Turtle, correct me if I'm wrong:

You dislike the American government? You dislike many things about America? You dislike religious people? You are not pleased with the way things are going in the States? You don't think religion should be practiced in public? You continue to live here even though you are angry.

What are the things that give you pleasure in life, and where have you found them?

Yup...Yup...Mostly with a very few exceptions...Yup....never said that, nor would I, No more than I would allow them to tell me I can't exercise my rights regarding religion in public ( A bit of irony you might appreciate...I used to be a pastor at a local baptist church.)...you apparently haven't read the whole thread as you would already have known how I would answer to that [ kinda sorta quoted from a previous post of my own in this thread "love this country hate the Govt."]

 

We have some of the most beautiful forests, best state and national parks, and besides it would be kinda hard to move all my family and friends to another country.

 

Our national and state parks, music (performing and listening), painting, writing, reading, making metal, earth and glass do my bidding, motorcycling, biking, hiking, camping, cooking, driving, pleasant conversation, hangin out with my wife, playin with my computer, watching movies, hangin out with my grandkids, fishin, designing machinery, watching machinery work, recycling dead machinesappliences into new things which have a different function or function differently from original design....I could go on and on but you get the point I hope.