Perception of time

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: rileyj

PERCEPTION OF TIME DOES NOT REQUIRE SELF-AWARENESS

 

Perception of ANYTHING requires self-awareness

 

From WWWebster

 

Percieve - "1 a : to attain awareness or understanding of "

 

Aware - "having or showing realization, perception, or knowledge"

 

There is not a single part of any one of these items in each defintion that does not REQUIRE self-awareness.

[rileyj]

"Woosh... "

 

just asking why twins have to be artificial inseminated slick

[rileyj]

"From WWWebster "

 

 

we weren't asking for a defintion of perception.you know whatthe tread is about so please stop trying to be PERCIEVED as intelligent

[Freethinker]

I'm sorry that my replies are too complicated for you rileyj. I thought the defintions might help. But I can see why you might not want such additional complications.

[Tim_Lou]

to "percieve time", is to recognize changes.

 

what i means is change is normally related to time. the sun's position change, the moon's phase change, thats how time is created for us.

 

if flies do not precieve time, they do not feel changes. But since they are organisms, they can carry out adaption which is "time".

 

again, organisms response to season changes, environmental changes...and organims can sense others to see if theyr "in time to reproduce" (you know what im talking about, just dont know what word i should use). which means they do know ages which is related to "time".

 

 

if they dont precieve all these, they are not even organisms!!!

(im sure that flies have these life activities)

[rileyj]

"I'm sorry that my replies are too complicated for you rileyj"

 

not at all, i can read a dictionary too.

[rileyj]

there just of topic and pointless opinion instead of fact. Animals are effected by time. This is not a thread about animals knowing of time, so if you want to argue that point go somewhere else,freethinker. this is about the perception of time and if it is different when stressed. it seems to me your arguing a point just to argue, not to get anywhere. i think that is all your really interested in (the arguement) so please go somewhere else if that is your goal.

 

"Perception of ANYTHING requires self-awareness"

 

THIS IS WRONG. and the defintions prove nothing. IF they do and i am wrong please someone else besides freethinker answer. or please state some real evidence

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Tim_Lou

to "percieve time", is to recognize changes.

 

what i means is change is normally related to time. the sun's position change, the moon's phase change, thats how time is created for us.

 

the sun and the moon, their positions/ phases/ .... do not CREATE time nor time change. Not for us, not for anything. The movement of ANYTHING is "perceived" based on our "perception"/ comprehension, of a forward linear time.

 

Say we take two events. Event "A" the sun is at point D and the moon is at point E. And event "B" at which the sun is at D' and moon at E'. As we would notice that relative to an otherwise static background, from event A to event B the sun went from D to D' and the moon went from E to E'. Our perception would be that during that time period, the sun and moon MOVED linearly between their established points

 

If instead our concept of time/ perception of time passage, was other than forward linear, say random, then we would NOT be able to KNOW (percieve) that the sun or moon moved LINEARLY between D-D', E-E'. Each could have occupied any number of random points in space at any instance between event A and event B.

 

Thus, our perception of time is based on our perception of self and understanding of our time perception as forward linear and we make assumptions/ recognize patterns, based on it.

 

IF we could not perceive SELF and the locations of other objects AND their movements in General Time/Space, things would NOT be RELATIVE, they could be ANYTHING, including random.

 

if flies do not precieve time, they do not feel changes.

 

This gets into termonology and agreed defintions. If a heat source shines on a fly, can they FEEL it? They obviously can DETECT it. It depends on how you define "feel" relative to "perceive". Perceive REQUIRES an conscious awareness. A rock can "detect" heat. It can even respond (physical changes including size and composition). But there is nothing within the physical makeup of a rock that would allow it to PERCIEVE the heat.

 

But since they are organisms, they can carry out adaption which is "time".

 

Rocks can "carry out adaption" as shown.

 

But again that is NOT what TIME is. TIME allows for the adaptation.

 

IT seems you are missing the concept of GENERAL Relativity and are stuck in Special Relativity. You are trying to remove TIME from the spacial relationship. You are asserting that something, which exists physically in spacial location, uses time to "adapt" or change. Thats is fine in SPECIAL Relativity. But in General Relativity, time is an integral aspect, not seperable from the XYZ spacial location. It is NOT XYZ with (delta)T, it is XYZT.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: rileyj

"I'm sorry that my replies are too complicated for you rileyj"

 

not at all, i can read a dictionary too.

 

READ, yes, perceive?

[Tim_Lou]

but back in the acient day, no one has the idea of relativities.

 

back in the acient time, people recognize changes and related it to time. they based on the movement of the sun and moon.... create the "time" for us. if everyone in the universe stopped and everything stopped changing, is the time stopped? not really, but for us, it is stopped. our brains stop functioning and time has stopped for us.

 

ok, maybe i said something wrong here. to "percieve time", is not to recognize changes. but when one is able to recognize changes, the individual "percieve time". since we know, changes ONLY happen as time changes.

 

so, flies are aware of changes thus they do "percieve time".

[Tim_Lou]

"IF we could not perceive SELF and the locations of other objects AND their movements in General Time/Space, things would NOT be RELATIVE, they could be ANYTHING, including random. "

 

no one can really be this general the see the bigger picture. since we are humans (only), we have a limitation (brains and gentic). you will never know how other people exactly feel, you can never directly look at yourself (not through mirror), you will never know what your position really is to other, since you are not the other. no matter how hard you try, no matter how you do, you are only youself, your just you, you cannot know exactly how someone or something feels.

 

(ex. your brain suddenly stopped, after you wait up, its 1000years later, but you do not recognize that you have stayed for 1000 years if no one tells you. to you, it is jsut 1 sec later.)

 

in the old days, people think that the earth is the center of universe. now, we know this is wrong, and have some idea of our position in the galaxy. but maybe after 100 years or so, it might be proven wrong! people might think that we are so stupid right now. as you say "general", is it really? maybe not...

 

people are getting close to "general", but it can be never reached.

 

(sry for being a little off topic again...)

[rileyj]

instead of childish comments, answer my questions or prove me statements wrong. or is it that you can't.

[rileyj]

time would exist with or without intelligent life.

[rileyj]

here are some sites for some who are interested

 

http://nba.uth.tmc.edu//homepage/eagleman/time.html

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/time-experience/

 

here is another forum about it

 

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/time-experience/

[Tim_Lou]

rileyj, your question is "does flies know time" right? or something like this?

 

if so, i jsut wanna point out this question is very pointless.

 

let me tell you guys a little silly story:

once upon a time, there are 2 guys named Tim_lou and freethinker.

they are walking home togther one day.

 

Tim: hey, freethinker, you see that fly over there? i bet he knows time exist.

free.: hey, your not the fly, how do you know it percieves time?

Tim: well...your not me, how do you know that i dont know the fly's feeling?

free.: your not me neither, how do you know that i dont know whether you know the fly's feeling or not?

.........conversation contiunes......until forever..... (well, until a guy named tormod comes in and tells us to stop!)....lol

 

(sry for using your names, freethinker and tormod. just a little silly joke to show it is pointless....)

 

get a fly and ask him whether he understands time or not.... that would solve everything....lol

[rileyj]

here is the 1st post

 

"do flys perceive time different from humans? how come when the flight or fight respones kicks in time seems to move a bit slower? when i was in a car accident it seemed that way, both times is it caused by chemical or electrical means in our body "

 

the question i was trying for was "how come when the flight or fight respones kicks in time seems to move a bit slower?"

 

flies were just an example that i saw on discovery channel which said their reflexes are faster than ours because they see things in slow motion. that is whatwas on t.v. thats why i example as what humans experience in stressful situtations.

 

so let me clearify, how come when the flight or fight respones kicks in, time seems to move a bit slower?

[rileyj]

and by the way animals do are affected and percieve time