Critique of Intelligent Design

[Southtown]

It never fails.

 

Those who "cannot" believe in Life as a naturally occuring, self-organizing process in a natural universe, always, ALWAYS describe the "scientific theory of the origin of life" in probability terms, using models that are totally, totally unreasonable.

Could you define Life for us, please?

 

Pyro, if you have some good evidence against ID other than the tiresome argument against the true believers, i'd like to hear it.

*crickets chirping*

 

I've been told it was Bob. I'm now going to have to declare holy war on you and your infidel so-called 'country', Nor... whatsit... er, between us, 'till the seventh generation!

 

Thou shalt feel the wrath of Bob, sinner!

Pious indignation, the driving mechanism behind millions and millions of years of merciless natural selection, correct?

[Boerseun]

Pious indignation, the driving mechanism behind millions and millions of years of merciless natural selection, correct?

Nah - more like 2,000-odd years' worth, I'd say.

[Southtown]

Why is that?

[Boerseun]

Because religious intolerance and quid-pro-quo religiously inspired killings (Crusades, suicide bombers, etc.) are a very recent invention, evolutionary speaking.

[Southtown]

Because religious intolerance and quid-pro-quo religiously inspired killings (Crusades, suicide bombers, etc.) are a very recent invention, evolutionary speaking.

I see. So what inspired the killings prior?

[damocles]

I see. So what inspired the killings prior?

 

http://touregypt.net/featurestories/hittites.htm

 

Wealth, the stealing of same.

 

As always, best wishes;

[Zythryn]

Pyro, if you have some good evidence against ID other than the tiresome

argument against the true believers, i'd like to hear it.

 

ID as a scientific argument against evolution, ID as something that should be taught in science class, ID as a logical exercise or ID as a religion?

 

For either of the first two, ID has no theory that I have ever heard.

If you have heard of one, please summerize the observastions which were made to form the hypothesis of ID. Then the tests that were performed to refute or support the hypothesis.

 

Theories are not used to argue against other theories. Theories survive or don't based on observations and tests of the theory. If a theory is lacking, it is either updated or scrapped in favor of a theory that does describe the observations and evidence.

[ughaibu]

Life on Earth is basically microbial, all the complex stuff like grass, insects, humans, etc, is just dust on the surface, yet I've been unable to locate any groups who consider microbes to be god, or to be intelligent designers.

[Southtown]

http://touregypt.net/featurestories/hittites.htm

 

Wealth, the stealing of same.

 

As always, best wishes;

Thanks for that, D. I do love ancient history. Good to see you again, by the way. How have ya been?

 

I'm specifically trying to dissect B's point of view, though. His passive-aggresive arrogance has piqued my curiosity, and I'm inviting him to discuss his position. Pin-pointing exactly where he stands, however, seems a lot like pulling teeth. But, I'm sure he does have a position. He probably just doesn't feel like defending it.

[damocles]

Thanks for that, D. I do love ancient history. Good to see you again, by the way. How have ya been?

 

I'm specifically trying to dissect B's point of view, though. His passive-aggresive arrogance has piqued my curiosity, and I'm inviting him to discuss his position. Pin-pointing exactly where he stands, however, seems a lot like pulling teeth. But, I'm sure he does have a position. He probably just doesn't feel like defending it.

 

I've been very busy, South, and haven't had the opportunity to post that much until recently.

 

I'm doing fairly well.

 

Don't be too hard on B. His reading of monotheistic history is accurate, but those polytheistic believers that he didn't mention were just as intolerant.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhenaten for example.

 

As always; the best of wishes;

[Southtown]

Don't be too hard on B. His reading of monotheistic history is accurate, but those polytheistic believers that he didn't mention were just as intolerant.

Hehehe... indeed.

 

But, I'm just wondering if religion is actually a catalyst for animosity among humans as B implies, or is it just misused to that end as a means of gaining the competitive advantage, since natural selection actually predated us.

[Boerseun]

I'm specifically trying to dissect B's point of view, though. His passive-aggresive arrogance has piqued my curiosity, and I'm inviting him to discuss his position. Pin-pointing exactly where he stands, however, seems a lot like pulling teeth. But, I'm sure he does have a position. He probably just doesn't feel like defending it.

Hiya, South. Being aggressive, I'd like to rip your head off. Being passive, I just couldn't care. But being arrogant, I'm not even supposed to acknowledge your presence. So I find myself in a rather difficult position, you see.

 

My responses above was for this piece you wrote:

Pious indignation, the driving mechanism behind millions and millions of years of merciless natural selection, correct?

Which I was sure was a joke, seeing as our written records only stretch back about three to four thousand years, not enough time for really big evolutionary changes to become widespread. So we don't have data for the evolutionary contribution of things like pious indignation for more than a few thousand years back. If we had data of one million years ago, we could say that yes, pious indignation might have been an evolutionary factor. Our data, however, only stretches back a few thousand years, and that's why I replied

Nah - more like 2,000-odd years' worth, I'd say.

I assumed that would be crystal clear. I you didn't get it, sorry. But it was a pretty obvious point.

Now - you don't have to revert to name-calling or insults here.

[Pyrotex]

Life on Earth is basically microbial, all the complex stuff like grass, insects, humans, etc, is just dust on the surface, yet I've been unable to locate any groups who consider microbes to be god, or to be intelligent designers.

Fascinating! :( In a very real sense, we WERE created by microbes.

LOL!!! :)

[Pyrotex]

Could you define Life for us, please?...

Lessee... [VaderVoice] LIFE [/VaderVoice] is a transient collection of molecules with a well-defined though permeable boundary, that collectively demonstrates ingestion, excretion, metabolism, and reproduction.

 

Transient, as used here, means that specific molecules and/or structures are generally temporary, their apparent constancy being a manifestation of metabolic replacement. Metabolic, as used here, means the extraction of chemical energy from ingested matter, heat gradients, and/or photons.

[Southtown]

Hiya, South. Being aggressive, I'd like to rip your head off. Being passive, I just couldn't care. But being arrogant, I'm not even supposed to acknowledge your presence. So I find myself in a rather difficult position, you see.

I'm sorry you feel that way. However, I was only forthright about your manner and also careful not to be 'name calling'. I said 'passive-aggressive arrogance' because you obviously have a point behind the comment:

 

I'm now going to have to declare holy war on you and your infidel so-called 'country', Nor... whatsit... er, between us, 'till the seventh generation!

...which you convey with sarcasm, but on which you refuse to elborate. I assume you are implying that war among humans wasn't a normal occurance until religion came along. Am I correct, or not? Thus I extrapolated:

 

Pious indignation, the driving mechanism behind millions and millions of years of merciless natural selection, correct?

Boiled down, I just can't swallow the concept that religion caused war, especially coming from an evolutionist. Do you still claim it does, or no?

[Boerseun]

Jeez, South, lighten up, dude...

 

It was a joke. Jokes are either understood, or not. But never explained. If you have to explain a joke, you're in front of the wrong audience.

 

As far as religion causing wars, er, well, yes. It does. Ever heard of the Crusades? Or religious fundamentalism? September the 11th? And the subsequent 'War on Terrorism'? Caused by fundamentalism? Which, in turn, is 100% attributable to the Tooth Fairy?

 

It's a scary world we're living in...

[Southtown]

Jeez, South, lighten up, dude...

 

It was a joke. Jokes are either understood, or not. But never explained. If you have to explain a joke, you're in front of the wrong audience.

'Nuff said. So you weren't serious. :)

 

As far as religion causing wars, er, well, yes. It does. Ever heard of the Crusades? Or religious fundamentalism? September the 11th? And the subsequent 'War on Terrorism'? Caused by fundamentalism? Which, in turn, is 100% attributable to the Tooth Fairy?

 

It's a scary world we're living in...

...or were you? :)

 

And I don't mind playing the butt, mind you, I'm just saying I disagree, humor aside.

 

Let's say I write 'Don't kill Fred' on a piece of paper and hand it to Joe. Then Joe crams the paper down Fred's throat so he asphyxiates. Who's to blame for Fred's death? Me, Joe, or the paper?