The Evolution of Education

[Tim_Lou]

ok, last thing here, the subjects level are way too low!

there are too many stupid stuffs being taught in school!

 

i dont know if its really the case, but the level is really low compare to those i leant in china.

 

 

(sry for making so many posts, this is the last one...)

[Freethinker]

Tim_lou, you sound very frustrated. Schools are quite different from one area to another. So I can not speak for your area directly. But part of the problem is exactly that. The US has the cahnce to show dramatic savings and advancement by unifying the entire countries school system. Instead every block in the US wants local control. Multiplying costs darmatically because of the required redundancy. So improved processes discovered in one area are not dupilcated, which means the mistakes made while learning, are repeated many many times.

 

As I say, I have no idea what the environment is like in your area. What populous of your ethnicity there is locally. Public Systems, including Schools, can affort to and are more motivated to have ethnic specific programs if there is enough people to take advantage of it.

 

Somewhere in the US there is a critical mass of students of your background and specific needs. They probably have specific programs in place to help resolve the issues you have. Try researching them on line. You probably know parts of the US that have higher penetration of your enthnicity. Or maybe your area is high? I don't know. Maybe they need to be pushed by an organized group of you and your peers. There have to be a lot of people having the same problem you do. If you spent some of the time you just spent complaigning, Googleing, you could find solutions.

 

Chinese SAT II Preparation Class

http://www.newconcept.com/English/School/

 

Different part of the country, but they may have some resources or ideas for you. Check for others. If there is a particular college you are interested in, contact them early and open a dialog about the problem. You might even find special scholarships.

 

Yes SAT's and tests in general are the mantra of the day in education. That is because of the current fight against the Conservatives/ Religious Right/ Republicans attempts to destroy the public education system. This is an ideological battle. And you are stuck in the middle of it.

 

As far as the restrictions you have. Hey, that's life! Some people go thru their entire life on the punch clock, getting specifically defined time periods for personal needs. Suck it up and deal with it.

[Tim_Lou]

yeah, your right. and im trying to solve these problems right now.

 

but ive seen SO MANY CHINESE gave up, we dont really have a choice, college is mainly 2 years college for us. SAT I? many of my friends did really bad on them. theyr not bad students, they do get As.

 

well, i know its hard... but there is a problem....

[rileyj]

hey you guys want better teachers? send them to summer seminars so they can further their own education on the subject they teach. they can spend the 3 months they usually get off, and work like the rest. 3 months of extra pay for them also, this way theyget payed for working and woon't go on strike as much. eventhough they should not be allowed to do this now

[rileyj]

hey you guys want better teachers? send them to summer seminars so they can further their own education on the subject they teach. they can spend the 3 months they usually get off, and work like the rest. 3 months of extra pay for them also, this way theyget payed for working and woon't go on strike as much. eventhough they should not be allowed to do this now

[rileyj]

want a better school environment? limit class size to 15-20 kids. this means more individual attention, more relaxed setting. teacher can know students better which improves teaching, learning, problems can be identified sooner, less fooling around in class. this will lead to more classrooms, teachers,etc..

which means more jobs for the area. which means more people working, which means more taxes being paid, which means more funds for schools.

[rileyj]

how about cameras in every room discretly placed. not so much for the kids,but mainly for the teacher. not in a neg. way but new teachers can be told how to better educate children andreg. teachers can be watched. distant learning can be used also.

[IrishEyes]

hey you guys want better teachers? send them to summer seminars so they can further their own education on the subject they teach. they can spend the 3 months they usually get off, and work like the rest. 3 months of extra pay for them also, this way theyget payed for working and woon't go on strike as much. eventhough they should not be allowed to do this now

 

rileyj...sometimes I wonder if you really live in the US. Pay teachers to go to school during their summer breaks? Where will this money come from, to pay for 3 more months? I mean, they already get their yearly salary, which is divided over 12 months instead of the 9 they actually work. so we give them MORE? I'm all for it, as this would mean a RAISE for them, and that's a huge part of the problem. There are many large cities in the US where sanitation workers make more than teachers! Now I'm not against sanitation workers, but what type of message is that sending to people that choose to educate children? I agree about the strikes though. People that strike really annoy me. I mean, you know, going in, that teaching is not going to be a 'for profit' carreer, as least not for monetary gain. You don't actually make money in education unless you are an administrator, or a tenured prof, or teach at a very exclusive private school. Public education just can't afford to pay what you are worth, so you enjoy the perks, like 3 months OFF in the summer, with "Pay". I'm not sure how many would go for giving up one of their perks.

[IrishEyes]

want a better school environment? limit class size to 15-20 kids. this means more individual attention, more relaxed setting. teacher can know students better which improves teaching, learning, problems can be identified sooner, less fooling around in class. this will lead to more classrooms, teachers,etc..

which means more jobs for the area. which means more people working, which means more taxes being paid, which means more funds for schools.

 

Limit the class sizes... Hmmm... And where do these extra classes come from? New schools? And the extra teachers? And support staff? And 'stuff' like textbooks, etc.? Oh, from the new taxes from the extra people working? I don't think so. Most of the schools that need help can not afford to build new schools to accomodate extra classes, can't afford to pay more teachers, and barely make enough tax revenue to cover what they already have. that's part of the problem. Are YOU willing to pay for a new school in Brooklyn, knowing that many of the people there can barely afford to buy food, much less pay taxes to support all that a new school entails?

 

Limiting class sizes is a good idea in theory, but for the schools that need the most help, it just isn't a plausible solution, in my opinion.

[IrishEyes]

how about cameras in every room discretly placed. not so much for the kids,but mainly for the teacher. not in a neg. way but new teachers can be told how to better educate children andreg. teachers can be watched. distant learning can be used also.

 

Who gets to watch the cameras? Another full-time person? Security staff? Who does the critiques of new teachers? Older teachers, or the admin staff?

 

This just brings me back to part of my original thought... WHO gets to decide what the 'right' way to educate a child is? If the new teacher had some radical, untested ideas, or learned some 'new techniques' in school, the older staff would probably not approve. I ran into this alot. People balk at what they don't understand.

 

Here's an example:

Instead of pushing a child to learn reading through rote memorization of a prescribed list of words and endless phonics lists, which can kill any love for reading later, removing the pressure and letting them read at their own pace works. I've seen it in my own children. The ones that learned in school took a much longer time to develop a genuine enjoyment for reading, and that was only after they were removed from the public school system. My younger ones, that never attended PS, never hated reading, and learned faster and without stress. However, when I suggested my methods to a PS teacher, i was told that it would never work, and my younger kids would never learn to read. This sentiment was echoed many times over from other educators, and even extended family. I love watching my youngest son read aloud to those former skeptics now. But in a PS setting, if I had been a teacher, I would have been ridiculed, reprimanded, and instructed to change my methods. At least that's what happened to my friend AFTER she saw my son's success and tried the same approach with her classroom 'kids'.

[IrishEyes]

Oh, BTW, thanks again for the book suggestion, Freethinker. i LOVE it!!!

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: IrishEyes

Oh, BTW, thanks again for the book suggestion, Freethinker. i LOVE it!!!

 

AN incredible book isn't it? I think it should be MANDITORY reading for all school board members, all teachers and school admins.

[Freethinker]

As to rileyj's comments and your replies.

 

Yes the solution is smaller classes with better educated, more motivated teachers that are rewarded based on their competency and effectiveness.

 

But we don't live in that bizarro world. We live in a world which, as irsheyes points out, can't afford to keep the schools and teachers they already have. That has it's hands tied by contradictory interests by varying public groups that each want very different things for their schools/ tax money. There are as many citizens that want to totally close public schools as those that want to fund thema s much as needed. Where people that pull boxes of beans off wharehouse shelves are ranked as higher paid (therefore valued) then those responsible for educating our children. Where a small but very active and vocal group that wants to stop children from being taught HOW to think, instead wanting their particular verisions of reality forced on the children. (Such as described in the book I reccomended to irisheyes)

 

Having had 4 kids go thru public schools (1 with a few years left) I have seen and been involved in many different programs. The absolute best, hands down, no question, Story Over, was OBE. Outcome Based Education. Although demonized by those afraid to have their kids taught to think, properly approached the results are nothing short of incredible. My 2nd oldest had a teacher in 5&6th grades that was doing her Masters on it. He produced his own books and reports. The parent/ teacher conference was actually put together by him. He showed what he had learned, where his strengths were, where he had problems and how we could all work to help him improve. He was so motivated and enjoyed school so much it was incredible.

 

In OBE, the effort is to have each child learn the appropriate skills as an end result of the total education experience. Benchmarks are checked along the way. The student is personally responsible for gaining the knoweldge they will need eventually. It is nothing short of a child doing thier Masters as the Outcome of their 12th grade completion. They learn at their own pace and in the way most effective for them personally.

 

It just does not fit the "Teach to Test" mentality forced on us by the current administrations "No Public Schools Left Standing" bill. It is intended to HELP students, acheive. Who wants that?

[rileyj]

"Limiting class sizes is a good idea in theory, but for the schools that need the most help, it just isn't a plausible solution, in my opinion."

 

well i went to both public and private, and that seemed to be the biggest difference, so it is a very plausible solution

[IrishEyes]

well i went to both public and private, and that seemed to be the biggest difference, so it is a very plausible solution

 

That's exactly my point!! The 'biggest difference' between public and private is the limited class size, huh? Well, how do you think your private school afforded those smaller classes? Was your private school located in the middle of a low-income neighborhood, where the majority of households are single-parent, one (or no) income homes? I seriously doubt it, but I could be wrong. Enlighten me! Were you in school in Compton, or Connecticut?

Compton classes are bursting at the seams, but can hardkly keep teachers due to pay, personal safety, and many other issues. Connecticut private/finishing schools might as well be on Mars for all they have in common with most public schools. Be realistic. If the school district is struggling to keep experienced teachers, how can they afford to build a new building and offer smaller classes, which requires more teachers that would have to accept less money?

 

Freethinker, your child's program sounds awesome! That's basically what I am doing with my children, but on a smaller scale. Also, I think a big part of the problem is that parents are much less involved than they should be. I gave up a six figure job to stay home with my children, because I saw what they were going through in school and I refused to accept less for them than what I felt they deserved. It was a major adjustment, but they are WORTH it. Many parents refuse to entertain that thought, caring more for their bank accounts. Now that isn't always the case, I know. Some people can NOT be home with their kids, for whatever reason (usually needing at least one income to survive). But there is ALWAYS a way to be more involved in the education of your children. Either volunteer at the school, spend time with your kid when you get home, or make it a point to get to know their teacher outside of normal school hours. It just burns me when I hear parents complain but still refuse to actually GET INVOLVED!!

[rileyj]

" I'm all for it,"

 

than why does it seem like your arguing

[rileyj]

"I'm not sure how many would go for giving up one of their perks. "

 

i KNOW you live in the u.s.

 

1st you say that the teaching is poor, the only way to improve teaching is educate the teachers. They (hopfully) are to busy to do it during the school year. besides 3 monthsof lectures on topics that they teach (which they should hold great interest in anyway)is not really 3 months of extra work. teachers should be paid more,and they should be held and at a higher standard as well. 3 month off perk ?what are you kidding me ? they have a very important job probably the most impotant. yes they are underpaid, but most teachers are not that good in the 1st place instead of spending 3 months waiting tables they should be improving and updating their teaching skills