The Evolution of Education

[rileyj]

"Limit the class sizes... Hmmm... And where do these extra classes come from? New schools? And the extra teachers? And support staff? And 'stuff' like textbooks, etc.? Oh, from the new taxes from the extra people working? I don't think so"

 

where do you think public schools get money hmmm? taxes maybe.who pays taxes hmm? people that live and work in the area. more schools,staff, etc.. means more jobs to offer - means more people working in area - means more paying taxes and less getting welfare, so yeah i do think so

[rileyj]

"Are YOU willing to pay for a new school in Brooklyn"

 

if i could i would, i pay what i can to help, i have after school programs setup for kids, took me 2 years to get it started, with my own money

[rileyj]

"Who gets to watch the cameras? Another full-time person? Security staff? Who does the critiques of new teachers? Older teachers, or the admin staff? "

 

OH NO NOT MORE JOBS!

[rileyj]

"WHO gets to decide what the 'right' way to educate a child is?"

 

people like you of course

[IrishEyes]

the only way to improve teaching is educate the teachers.

 

Where would the teachers get this wonderful education? The same place that taught them how to think in the first place? That's part of the problem. Did you read what i have written on this thread? It

s not just public elemantary education. It's basic institutions in this country. People, including children, are NOT taught to think and reason on their own. They are taught to memorize a pre-set list of facts, regurgitate it for a standardizes exam, dump that info, and move on to the next block. Teachers are much the same. They are taught that there is a 'right' way to teach a particular subject, and they should stick with that way. If a child is not 'getting it' - that child has a problem; and the child should be separated fromt the other kids and remediated until the child 'learns it the right way'. Math is a prime example, as everyone knows there is only ONE correct way to solve any given math problem, right?

[rileyj]

"My younger ones, that never attended PS, never hated reading, and learned faster and without stress"

 

how much T.V. do your kids watch

[IrishEyes]

i KNOW you live in the u.s.

 

How? Because i gave up a very lucrative carreer for my children? that's pretty indicative of the normal attitudes of Americans, right?

[IrishEyes]

how much T.V. do your kids watch

 

Less than 5 hours a month. Yours?

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: rileyj

"Limiting class sizes is a good idea in theory, but for the schools that need the most help, it just isn't a plausible solution, in my opinion."

 

well i went to both public and private, and that seemed to be the biggest difference, so it is a very plausible solution

 

I went to public and private and both had about 20-25 students per class.

[rileyj]

"Was your private school located in the middle of a low-income neighborhood, where the majority of households are single-parent, one (or no) income homes? I seriously doubt it, but I could be wrong. Enlighten me! Were you in school in Compton, or Connecticut? "

 

like i said i went to both, 1st public than private,how? iwork my *** off and saved 10,000 year every to go, the rest was paid by the state.

 

and yes it was a nice boring town in wayne PA, so they did have money iagree of course money makes it easier, it does with everything. but thats the problem. people don't wanna pay more taxes.

"we want better schools but we don't wanna pay" you say private is like being on mars compared to public school? well look at the areas, of course they are different. the students that went to my school came form all over the world. but we all learned the same as public school kids. thestudents actually listened and respected the teacher. why? because we had small classrooms, seemed more one on one, it is amazing the great difference cutting a class in half can make. so i'll pay more taxes for that. no problem here

[IrishEyes]

where do you think public schools get money hmmm? taxes maybe.who pays taxes hmm? people that live and work in the area. more schools,staff, etc.. means more jobs to offer - means more people working in area - means more paying taxes and less getting welfare, so yeah i do think so

 

Does anyone else see the flaw here, or am I just too close-minded for this discussion?

 

Ok, from the beginning,...

 

Where does the inital money to build new schools come from? There is not a new school yet, no extra classrooms are there, no extra teachers are required. The students live in low-income housing, and are supported by single-parents that are struggling. Who is going to raise these taxes???!!??? And how will these people afford to pay the higher taxes to build this new school with all those extra classes, that will employ all the new teachers and admin staff? And who will ensure that the new employees will live in this area in order to collect thier taxes? Do YOU want to live in Brooklyn? I mean, taking the subway to teach there is one thing, but are you going to move your family there in order to pay the taxes required to improve the schools? I'm not picking on Brooklyn, you can substitute Detroit, Compton, DC, or any other inner-city that you choose.

 

In my area, people commute 50 miles to teach in the inner city, but their taxes from that income go to MY school district, where their own children go to school. See the problem with your logic? The people that teach in the closest inner city wouldn't dream of making their children attend those schools. That's pretty sad!

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: IrishEyes

<blockquote>Quote

<hr> well i went to both public and private, and that seemed to be the biggest difference, so it is a very plausible solution <hr></blockquote>

 

That's exactly my point!! The 'biggest difference' between public and private is the limited class size, huh? Well, how do you think your private school afforded those smaller classes?...It just burns me when I hear parents complain but still refuse to actually GET INVOLVED!!

 

As I said before. I have gone to both. And the class size was not noticibly different. I would argue class size as the major determining factor. I think the single largest determining factor is parental involvement.

 

Trying to keep my specific locale concealled, I am very familiar with private/ public shool performace issues. It is well proven that public schools in "upper income" areas have performance on par, sometimes superior to, private schools. Even if class size is higher in the public schools. Yet in lower income areas, the difference can be dramatic. Social issues are a much bigger determining factor. Things OUTSIDE the schools that directly impact a child's mindset.

 

So while when all else is equal, smaller class size improves an individual student's performance. It is less of a direct factor when other influences are the over riding issue.

[IrishEyes]

"WHO gets to decide what the 'right' way to educate a child is?"

 

people like you of course

 

I can't stop laughing from this one!! I have a house full of children that I am educating. My whole point is that if they were in school, they wold all be forced to learn in the same way, instead of having an educational plan that was suited to each of their learning styles. Freethinker's school sounds great, and I'd love to have something like that in my area! But there is no way that i would want to force my particular learning style on anoher child!! That is what I see as one of the biggest problems with public education. Everything is standardized for the ease of the teachers, instead of customized for the benefit of the students.

[rileyj]

"Math is a prime example, as everyone knows there is only ONE correct way to solve any given math problem, right? "

 

yeah so, it seems pointless to have a debate on weather 2+2=4, right?history is a good example of a class that requires both the teaching of undisputed fact and discussion of other possibilities. language,physics, chem, bio, astronomy, etc.. are things that have "one way",soyour problem is the lack of classes like philosphy and religion and so on?

[IrishEyes]

I think the single largest determining factor is parental involvement.

 

You said it all, right there. While not every family can afford to have a parent stay at home, EVERY parent should be intimately involved in the education of their child. Too many parents send their kids off to school every morning with a 'now you're the school's problem' attitude. Then the parents wonder why their child is being arrested, or can't read, or hates his life.

 

I think parental involvement is the key to stopping so many of the problems today. I'd like to carry one of your ideas a little farther. Maybe taxes coldn't be raised in some low-income areas, but parents could still get involved. For parents that don't have jobs, what is stopping them from volunteering at that school every single day? For parents that do work, why not get involved in after-school programs?

[rileyj]

"Less than 5 hours a month. Yours? "

 

well most families have children that watch for 5 hours a day. big porblem. if it was cut down to 5 hours a month, schools would be VERY different. at private school we had no T.V. and had to stay in our rooms from 7:30 -9:30 with doors open, radio offand at our desks. we had a study hall supervisior

walk up and down the hall to help us with homework than it was off to bed at 10. unfortunatley many families can't have one parent stay home. which leaves kids alone to watch t.v. or do other "kid stuff" which is ok but at teh same time unproductive. thats why i started the after school program, at this time it is the best thing i can think of to do.

 

and no kids yet way too young

[rileyj]

" Where does the inital money to build new schools come from? There is not a new school yet, no extra classrooms are there"

 

guess we pay more taxes for a year or 2 to get it startes