Thorium Reactors And Carbon Fusion Reactors

[Vmedvil]

Anyone that know anything about Fission Nuclear Reactors has heard of the Thorium Cycle which is a closed loop nuclear reaction that produces energy in the form of heat. 

Which goes through this nuclear decay reaction, which is a closed loop Nuclear Fission reaction being the thorium cycle as the products through the cycle produce the original reactant releasing energy at each stage, which burn forever using this process. 

Now, let's bridge this into Fusion to begin let us start with a fusion reaction that does not work like the thorium cycle. Hydrogen Fusion which is the process currently being worked on by most of the nations of earth that have the resource and technology to research it as a "Clean" nuclear reaction but works in the opposite way as Fission which is splitting of atoms, Nuclear fusion is binding of atoms that generate energy. 

Which I am going to use the European model for Fusion reactors given that it confines plasma to simulate the conditions in the core of a Star which is about 100 million degrees Kelvin when fusion starts as the atoms are forced together.

Which in stars the Plasma is confined by Gravity and not the Electromagnetic Force but is still the same process. 

This is the fusion cycle of our stars but we find there are many types of Fusion reactions that stars undergo as different elements below Iron are fused into heavier nuclei which is based on the Temperature of the Star's core and the elements present each heavier element requiring a higher temperature to cause fusion of because of the increase Electric Repulsion present as more protons are inside the nucleus more average kinetic energy or "Temperature" is required to push them together. 

There is a classes of stars that use different Nuclear Fusion cycles as the elements are transformed into the higher forms of themselves in any case, the type of star has very much to do with temperature.

Now we will be talking a Fusion reaction for a B and O type Stars which is Carbon Fusion which has a Thorium like cycle for fusion or the CNO Cycle for Carbon Fusion which requires a vastly increased temperature to maintain being a much hotter star type at 600 million degrees K for core temperature for Carbon Fusion, but I think this would require around 1 to 10 billion degrees Kelvin for CNO cycle.

Which is a closed loop Fusion cycle like the thorium cycle is for fission which gives of Electron neutrinos, Gamma Radiation and Antimatter in the form of Positrons (Antimatter Electrons) in an infinite loop requiring non-isotope Hydrogen, the most common element in the universe, to maintain the CNO cycle.

"Our ancestors harnessed the power of a sun, and so again shall we."

I want to remind you that there are even more powerful sources of energy than this though and to continue if this point is reached, but they are no longer Nuclear Fission/Fusion based.

I wanted to continue the design on CNO Cycle Fusion or Carbon Fusion by explaining actually how to achieve a temperature of 4 Billion Kelvin and the confinement of the Plasma.

The heating of the plasma can be done by fission, The Carbon Fusion reactor unit will have a initiator of fission, In order to achieve a plasma temperature of the desired amount, the plasma will go through a fission reactor before entry into the Fusion reactor, the materials that are going to be used for Fusion will act as the coolant to the fission reactor usually water is used for the coolant for a fission reactor but in this case hydrogen mixed with Carbon 12 will be used to cool the fission reactor, the fission reactor will overheat the coolant to near 4 billion kelvin. The Fission reactor itself contained in Superconductors as well to achieve temperatures equal to that of a Nuclear explosion instead of Concrete which standard fission reactors are encased in which would melt at 4 Billion Kelvin.

The hot gas in this case will be replaced by Plasma from a nuclear reactor which will be magnetically confined and circulated through the fission reactor until reaching the critical CNO cycle temperature of 4 Billion Kelvin through Nuclear Fission. This is greatly cheapen the cost of heating the Carbon Fusion reactor's plasma by traditional means by using nuclear fission reactors to start the Fusion reaction, such as a standard thorium cycle reactor. Nuclear explosions hit billions of degrees Kelvin thus Nuclear fission reactors can hit this temperature by continuous circulation of the same material through the reactor every-time getting closer to that temperature.

The magnetic confinement will be done by Iron superconductors (oxyprincides) which can achieve field strengths of 150 Teslas which is 10x that of normal Cuprate Superconductors which have a field strength of 15 Teslas under the same current which will greatly increase the pressure put upon the preheated 4 Billion kelvin Carbon 12 and Hydrogen to achieve CNO cycle as oxyprincides are a much more efficient superconductor than Cuprates.

This makes a Carbon fusion reactor with a Fission Initiator which should not really need a power source as the primary cause of energy loss heating of the plasma is done by a fission reactor with more efficient superconductors than standard Cuprates.  

    
  On 3/16/2020 at 3:42 PM, GAHD said:
Never saw your first account and post there. I like the idea of a thorium cycle as general plan. There SHOULD be thorium reactors dotted around every couple hundred KM IMHO.  That being said...

first off: Thorium isn't "forever" cycle, It can take a couple paths and most likely goes to U 232 IIRC "depleated" uranium and U233 "dirty" uranium, then down the normal decay chains for the U. It's probably not going to decay back into useful thorium, though the idea is that the freed neutrons and the ocasional free proton from those chains kick the other stuff up to "burn" grade.

Second off, even the hottest reactors barely peak at 700 C IIRC. There's MAYBE the option of a lead-cooled U-thorium hybrid fast-reactor running around 8-900, but even that isn't going to get you plasma via the thermal route, it's an order of magnitude too low at only "around" 1000-1100kelvin. You're not getting any "plasma" out of that. Well, you could do some several-stage magic with existing turbine designs to power some induction heaters and forcibly strip the electrons that way, but direct heating to "cool" the reactor core ain't going to cut it without those extra measures.

There's other problems with "only" 15 Tesla being your goal with the torus. AFAIK we see fusion events from zeta pinch at around 10,000 Tesla.

Few order of magnitude problems if I read you correctly and happen to not be completely wrong about useful densities and temperatures in fission events and fusion events.

Vmedvil Said in response:

It's a work in progress, I think this is the first time that anyone tried to make a CNO reactor.

 

A) It may not make a difference but heating the plasma requires a lot of energy which is a problem we face with fusion currently something I don't know exactly how to fix but the idea is that you could burn it hotter using more Thorium and increase the temperature which would make it generate even hotter temperatures within the system by not cooling it as fast.

B ) that's why the oxyprincides post was added to increase it to 150 Teslas but even with superconductors you run into that max being 150 teslas per meter, you could of course coil it or increase the surface area of the device however we need better superconductors as explained in the (http://www.scienceforums.com/topic/36334-chemistry-of-superconductor-magnetic-field-strength/?do=findComment&comment=380669) thread. It would require layers and layers of superconducting wire. In the example in (http://www.scienceforums.com/topic/34451-building-a-spaceship-that-can-travel-out-of-the-solar-system/page-3?do=findComment&comment=382470) thread a 10 meter reactor was used which would be above 10,000 Teslas which if surface area of a sphere is A = 4πr2  then following that logic if we had a 1 meter radius reaction chamber with 9 meter radius of superconducting coils with 15 teslas per meter then you would get ‭15,260.4‬ Teslas in that chamber if ‭‭1,017.36‬‬ meters of superconducting wire was used, which would sustain fusion, however would make the Carbon Fusion reactor huge, if 150 Tesla per meter oxyprencides were used with that same chamber size of 1 meter and ‭2.846 meter radius of superconducting coils making the entire device ‭3.846‬ meter radius which is still pretty large using only ‭101.28 meters of superconducting wire.

Overall, Carbon fusion reactors are a futuristic dream of mine that someday will happen when stronger superconductors make it viable but its like the thorium cycle.

The Physics Forums discussion on CNO Cycle Carbon Fusion, Link = https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/cno-cycle-carbon-fusion.985803/

 

The Sciforums Discussion on CNO Cycle Carbon Fusion, Link = http://www.sciforums.com/threads/carbon-fusion-review.162953/

 

Included points from Physics forums from phyzguy

 

"Try calculating the bremsstrahlung losses from your plasma and compare that to the energy generated by the CNO cycle. I think you will find that it is a net loss. Unless your reactor is large enough that the bremmstrahlung radiation cannot escape (like in a star), your reactor will have net loss of energy. Don't take my word for it, do the calculation."

Vmedvil Said in Response:

P.S. The thing I don't get about the people of the physics forums is they just discuss menial stuff all day, stuff that has been discussed over and over again, seriously thankfully other forums have a more enlightened attitude, I would contemplate suicide everyday if I was one of those people on that forum that did just discuss menial **** all day.

 

Included Points from Sciforums Discussion from Billvon

 

 "1) Temperatures for carbon fusion are effectively unreachable in any terrestrial reactor. We can barely get to D-T fusion temperatures/pressures.
2) Shielding will be incredibly difficult. At those temperatures the plasma would be radiating in the hard X-ray band."

Vmedvil Said:

I am now adopting Dubbelosix's equations for Gravimagnetism to plasma physics(https://www.colorado.edu/physics/research/plasma-physics) for this reactor to explain the behavior of plasma turbulence in the reactor, link = https://www.scienceforums.com/topic/38262-torsion-and-the-dirac-equation/. A understanding of these equations with applications to plasma in the reactor should show how to minimize turbulence allowing the reactor to have a longer run length by understanding the forces that act on the plasma within the reactor(https://www.psfc.mit.edu/research/topics/plasma-turbulence).

Edited January 3, 2023 by Vmedvil

[Vmedvil]

Carbon Fusion Reactors are patented by West Nanorobotics LLC until 2043 so until then thieves cannot steal this technology.

[OceanBreeze]

20 hours ago, Vmedvil said:

Anyone that know anything about Fission Nuclear Reactors has heard of the Thorium Cycle which is a closed loop nuclear reaction that produces energy in the form of heat. 

Which goes through this nuclear decay reaction, which is a closed loop Nuclear Fission reaction being the thorium cycle as the products through the cycle produce the original reactant releasing energy at each stage, which burn forever using this process. 

 

"which burn forever using this process"

 

This needs to be clarified. A Thorium reactor is, by its own nature, a breeder reactor which generates more fissile material than it consumes, but it is not capable of doing this “forever” in a continuous closed loop, without any inputs. That would violate the laws of thermodynamics.

While there is no need to have fissile material added as fuel, a Thorium reactor does require to be fueled with a *fertile material, such as uranium-238 or thorium-232, in order to keep the reaction going.

*A fertile material is a fuel that must absorb a neutron in order to become a fissile fuel.

 

The thorium fuel cycle is the path that thorium transmutes through from fertile source fuel to uranium fuel ready for fission. Th-232 absorbs a neutron, transmuting it into Th-233. Th-233 beta decays to Pa-233 and finally undergoes a second beta minus decay to become U-233. This is the one way of turning natural and abundant Th-232 into something fissionable. Since U-233 is not naturally found but makes an ideal nuclear reactor fuel, it is a much sought-after fuel cycle. This fuel cycle is of extreme importance to molten salt reactors, as most of the proposed reactors could use the thorium fuel cycle.

 

 

 The green arrow indicates an input, demonstrating that the Thorium fuel cycle is not a completely closed loop process.

[Vmedvil]

1 hour ago, OceanBreeze said:

"which burn forever using this process"

 

This needs to be clarified. A Thorium reactor is, by its own nature, a breeder reactor which generates more fissile material than it consumes, but it is not capable of doing this “forever” in a continuous closed loop, without any inputs. That would violate the laws of thermodynamics.

 

While there is no need to have fissile material added as fuel, a Thorium reactor does require to be fueled with a *fertile material, such as uranium-238 or thorium-232, in order to keep the reaction going.

*A fertile material is a fuel that must absorb a neutron in order to become a fissile fuel.

 

 

The thorium fuel cycle is the path that thorium transmutes through from fertile source fuel to uranium fuel ready for fission. Th-232 absorbs a neutron, transmuting it into Th-233. Th-233 beta decays to Pa-233 and finally undergoes a second beta minus decay to become U-233. This is the one way of turning natural and abundant Th-232 into something fissionable. Since U-233 is not naturally found but makes an ideal nuclear reactor fuel, it is a much sought-after fuel cycle. This fuel cycle is of extreme importance to molten salt reactors, as most of the proposed reactors could use the thorium fuel cycle.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 The green arrow indicates an input, demonstrating that the Thorium fuel cycle is not a completely closed loop process.

That is interesting that makes me think that CNO cycle Carbon Fusion may not be a "Completely closed loop process" either since the thorium cycle isn't. I am going to post my Patent document on CNO carbon fusion to the forums so you can look over it and suggest corrections to it too before the utility patent, mind you it is already provisional patented.

Fusion Power (SMAC) | Civilization Wiki | Fandom

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by Vmedvil

[OceanBreeze]

That is an interesting post Vic. To be honest, I have not had time to look into it deeply enough yet to give you any feedback.

One thing I will say is Science Forums cannot protect your post from copyright infringement as long as it is user content on an open forum. For your protection, I am going to hide your post so it is visible only to moderators.

That way, I can continue to read it and see if I can offer you any suggestions. I will keep it hidden for 14 days max and then delete it.

Let me know if that is agreeable to you.

[Vmedvil]

1 hour ago, OceanBreeze said:

That is an interesting post Vic. To be honest, I have not had time to look into it deeply enough yet to give you any feedback.

 

One thing I will say is Science Forums cannot protect your post from copyright infringement as long as it is user content on an open forum. For your protection, I am going to hide your post so it is visible only to moderators.

 

That way, I can continue to read it and see if I can offer you any suggestions. I will keep it hidden for 14 days max and then delete it.

 

Let me know if that is agreeable to you.

 

That's cool, thanks.

[Vmedvil]

Carbon Fusion Reactor

Abstract

This is a Nuclear Fusion Reactor using the Carbon Nitrogen Oxygen Cycle(CNO) to
generate energy in the form of heat and anti-matter particles such as positrons. The
“Carbon Fusion Reactor” is heated to a self-sustaining reaction by the introduction of
sodium 22 which decays into positrons and neon 22 via beta positive decay method
heating the plasma to above 16 million kelvin upon reacting with electrons. The device
is shaped as a tokomak the hydrogen plasma being contained in a magnetic field that is
greater than 10,000 Teslas in magnitude allowing the Carbon Fusion events to happen
within the torus shaped reaction chamber at 16 million kelvins or higher temperature.

Assignee: West Nanorobotics LLC
Appl. No.: 63/474,517
Filed: 08/19/22

Claims

1. Any usage of a Nuclear Fusion Reactor using the Carbon Nitrogen Oxygen cycle(CNO) for
transforming non-isotope hydrogen into energy and various particles such as positrons at 16
million kelvins or higher temperature.
2. Any usage of Sodium 22 isotopes that generate positrons to heat the plasma of the Nuclear
Fusion Reactor to generate a self-sustaining reaction at 16 million kelvins or higher of the
Carbon Nitrogen Oxygen Cycle(CNO).
3. The method of claim 1 the usage of any Carbon Nitrogen Oxygen Cycle(CNO) to generate
energy making a “Carbon Fusion Reactor”.

Description

BRIEF SUMMARY
This is a “Carbon Fusion Reactor” that uses the Carbon Nitrogen Oxygen Cycle(CNO) to
generate energy in the form of anti-matter particles such as positrons and energy in the form of heat.
The device is a Torus shaped tokomak fusion reactor with superconductors such as cuprates or iron
based superconductors of 30 Teslas per meter or above used to contain the hydrogen plasma used in the
reactor along with the carbon 12 that is used as a catalyst for the Carbon Nitrogen Oxygen
Cycle(CNO). There is a central solenoid in the middle of the torus shaped reactor that moves the
hydrogen plasma and carbon 12 around the device in a circle allowing for the magnetic field of greater
than 10,000 Teslas in magnitude to contain it which the superconductors are coiled around the torus
shape of the reaction chamber in the form of wire making the plasma not touch the inner surface of the
chamber via magnetic repulsion. To heat the plasma sodium 22 isotopes are introduced into the
chamber of hydrogen plasma and carbon 12 to heat the mixture to 16 million kelvins or higher

allowing for the self-sustaining Carbon Nitrogen Oxygen Cycle(CNO) to take place consuming non-
isotope hydrogen to generate energy in the form of positrons and heat. The Sodium 22 isotopes decay

via beta positive decay into positrons and neon 22 which the positrons then annihilate with electrons
present around the carbon 12 and hydrogen plasma generating gamma radiation which is absorbed by
the hydrogen plasma and carbon 12 heating it. Once, the reaction is heated to 16 million kelvins or
higher the the Carbon Nitrogen Oxygen Cycle(CNO) is happening and the energy from the reaction
keeps the plasma above that temperature making it self-sustaining and generating excess energy above
that which can be extracted by removing plasma from the device to heat water which will move a
turbine to generate electricity just as a standard nuclear fission reactor.

BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF THE FIGURES

FIG. 1, Tokomak Carbon Fusion Reactor Design

FIG. 2, Carbon Nitrogen Oxygen Cycle(CNO) Diagram

FIG. 3, Sodium 22 Decay Via Beta Positive Decay Diagram

FIG. 4, Fusion Reactor Plasma Turbulence Diagram In The Entire Chamber

FIG. 5, Cross Section of Fusion Reactor Plasma Turbulence Diagram

DETAILED DESCRIPTION
There are several parts to this “Carbon Fusion Reactor” which will be explained being the
Carbon Nitrogen Oxygen Cycle(CNO), Sodium 22 Heating, Critical Temperature, Critical Magnetism,
The Torus Chamber, and Plasma Turbulence.

First, there are several types of Carbon Nitrogen Oxygen Cycle but the primary one is CNO-I
used in this reactor which liberates 26.73 Mev of energy which includes the positron's annihilation with
electrons and heat. The Cycle transforms Carbon 12 to Nitrogen 13 to Carbon 13 to Nitrogen 14 to
Oxygen 15 to Nitrogen 15 to Carbon 12 making a closed loop the Carbon 12 is just used as a catalyst
for the Fusion reaction. The entire time this “loop reaction” is running it liberates energy by consuming
non-isotope hydrogen transforming it into various products such as helium 4, positrons, and gamma
radiation. Each cycle consumes 4 non-isotope hydrogen atoms and produces 1 helium 4 atom along
with 2 positrons and 3 gamma radiation photons. The other Carbon Nitrogen Oxygen cycles(CNO)
could be used be either require unobtainable temperatures or liberate less energy from the cycle thus
are not used however could be used. There are a total of seven different Carbon Nitrogen Oxygen
Cycle that could be used however will not be discussed because of technical problems with making
conditions necessary for the reaction or lack of liberated energy however there is CNO-II, CNO-III,
CNO-IV, HCNO-I, HCNO-II, HCNO-III and of course the one being used in the “Carbon Fusion
Reactor” CNO-I. The energy obtained of the entire 1 meter cubed plasma of 4:1 ratio non-isotopic
Hydrogen to carbon 12 is 42.3 Terajoules which can continuously be replaced with more of the plasma
at a ratio of 4:1 making more energy over a period of time producing at maximum 42.3 Terawatts of
energy if the entire reaction chamber is spent in 1 second. The more stable route may be the make the
reaction happen at 5 gigawatts over a period of 8,460 seconds producing 42.3 terawatts over a longer
period of time.

Second, There is the heating of the hydrogen and Carbon 12 mixture which uses sodium 22.
Sodium 22 can be produced by bombarding protons into magnesium or aluminum targets which has
been known about since the 60s. The sodium 22 when it decays releases a positron transforming into
neon 22 which the positron will annihilate with a electron in the plasma making two gamma radiation
photons heating the non-isotopic hydrogen and carbon 12 mixture. Each Annihilation of a positron
produces two 511 kev gamma radiation photons thus heating the mixture into a plasma state of 16
million kelvins or higher with moderate amounts of sodium 22 isotope allowing for the CNO-I cycle to
become self-sustaining after heating with gamma radiation produced from positron-electron
annihilation. The Sodium 22 can be mixed directly into the non-isotope Hydrogen and Carbon 12 for
heating it will have no effect on the CNO-I reaction other than heating the mixture.

Third, the critical temperature of the CNO-I cycle is 16 million kelvin or higher if the
temperature falls below 16 million kelvin then the reaction will stop being that the products and energy
will stop being produced. For this reason I consider that a proper temperature for this reactor would be
above 100 million kelvins or higher to have a safe margin for temperature fluctuation in the actual
reaction chamber. The 26.73 Mev reaction of CNO-I will keep the reaction stable as the plasma does
not touch the inner chamber wall but if it does begin to fall below the temperature of 100 million kelvin
then more Sodium 22 isotopes can be added to the mixture to keep the temperature above the reaction
temperature. This should allow for continuous energy production from the reaction for longer than

deuterium/tritium fusion reactors. As plasma is removed to heat water to power a turbine the
temperatures will need to be carefully monitored otherwise you risk dropping the temperature below
the critical temperature for the reaction of 16 million kelvins which is why a temperature of 100 million
kelvin is sustained to keep a safety net before the reaction actually stops allowing for the removal of
plasma without interruption of the reaction.
Fourth, Critical Magnetism which will need to remain above 10,000 Teslas to keep the plasma
confined which means if a 1 meter cubed chamber in the middle of the torus is used the walls would
need to be coiled with 6.93 meters thickness of the outside wall of superconductor wire that is 30 Teslas
per meter. This will confine the plasma into a circular “beam” of plasma containing hydrogen and
carbon 12 under those pressures plasma turbulence becomes negligible. The Central solenoid needs to
be strong enough to move the carbon 12 and hydrogen plasma at 337 meters per second or higher to
keep confinement of the plasma the higher the velocity of the plasma is the better. For safety the
plasma should be kept at above 10,000 meters per second in the chamber requiring a solenoid equal to
30 Teslas or higher producing a force of 100 GigaNewtons on the plasma moving at 10,000 meters per
second. The 10,000 Tesla superconductor shell of the device will produce a force of 30 PetaNewtons
of compression on the plasma of hydrogen and carbon 12 at these specifications with a 10,000 Tesla
magnetic field strength.

Fifth, the Torus reaction chamber will have a inner radius of .15 meters allowing for a 1 meter
cubed volume of the internal compartment to contain the plasma. The radius of the superconductors
must be 6.93 meters with a thickness of the the inner wall of the chamber made of tungsten at .5 meter.
The total volume of the device being 47.6 meters cubed including all parts in a torus shape with a 1
meter cubed storage for the plasma of hydrogen and carbon 12. The superconductors will have to be
cooled with liquid nitrogen or liquid helium which will require flow of the coolant through the outer
shell of the device made of superconductors using the same technology used on current
deuterium/tritium fusion reactors to cool the device. Electricity will have to be applied to the
superconductors to keep the magnetism present of the superconductors.

Sixth, The plasma turbulence at a compression of 30 PetaNewtons the turbulence should be
minimal the plasma being more of a circular “beam” of hydrogen and carbon 12. There will still be
minor differences in density of the plasma to some degree however being hyper-compressed by the
magnetic field should make for little problems with the reaction much like the reaction that happens in
stars with the Carbon Nitrogen Oxygen Cycle(CNO). The goal of this is to obtain conditions similar to
a star in the reaction chamber as with all fusion reactors which should be possible at 30 PetaNewtons of
compression by the outer chamber of superconducting wire.

HOW TO USE

The “Carbon Fusion Reactor” uses hydrogen and carbon 12 at a 4:1 ratio this mixture will need to be
maintained a fed into the device. The sodium 22 must be fed into the device as well to maintain a
temperature of 100 million kelvin. If these conditions are met then a total of 42.3 Terajoules of energy
will be liberated from the reaction per chamber load of reactants which can be removed from the
reactor in the form of plasma to heat water. The water then turns to steam moving a turbine generating
electricity for consumption by the people the reactor is being used by.

Edited February 28 by Vmedvil