Capitalist Legal System

[HydrogenBond]

The Constitution of the United States mandates equal justice for all. I would like to use a little conceptual modeling and a little math to see if our culture forfils the intent of the constitution. I will start with a little data collection.

 

If many groups of two people, committed the same crime under the same circumstances, would the person in each group with the better lawyer get the same results from the legal system as the one with less competent legal representation. The answer is obvious not in all cases; better legal representation will greater increase the odds of one getting a better deal from the legal system.

 

The way one gets better legal representation, so they can increase the odds that they will get a better result from the legal system ,is money. The more money one is able to spend on legal representation the better the odds one has in getting the desired result.

 

The ideal of equal justice for all implies that if one plotted justice versus money one would get a flat curve. Yet, within our culture if one plotts justice versus money the curve will slope upwards with moore juctice for more money. On the other hand, if we assume the Supreme Court has determine that there is indeed equal justice for all, and we replot the same reality data, the curve would still slope, but it will slope downward below the zero point of justice. In this case, the negative of justice or injustice will be proportional to the amount of money. The Constitution does not make an provision for equal injustice for all. This is the loop hole.

 

One may argue that the extra money required to get a better shake from the justice system is almost like a fine, which adds negative value to the judgement. Irregardless, the fact remains that is one throws enough gold coins on the scales of justice one can get them to tip in their favor.

 

If we wanted not only equal justice, but also equal injustice for all, we would need to change the Capitalist Legal System, so that slanting impacting of money could be factored out. The Capitalist Legal System was actually an improvement over a Social legal system, because it took politics out the equation. It used to be legal system based on both politic and money. The change to a legal system just based on money was a big improvement. The way we could improve it further, and flatten the curve even better, is with mathematics.

 

How about a random or legal lottery system? All the lawyers are placed in a lottery pool and they are chosen randomly and then assigned to defend random clients. The pay scale is what one can afford. This give everyone equal chance to escape justice. This wiil periodically, but not always, allow the homeless beggar who is imprisoned for vagrancy to get a lawyer good enough to twist it around and get an injustice settlement that may offer a fresh start for the beggar. On the other, the corrupt business man who just pillaged the retire fund and who would have been willing to spend 75% of what he stole on his legal defense, may not always draw a competent or even a corrupt enough legal team to weave the needed magic. Under those circumstances he may rethink the crime before committing it. This is not perfect, but it would help flatten the curve so both justice and injustice will be for all.

[rockytriton]

don't count on our legal system changing any time soon. also, remember that we are all equal, but some are more equal than others.

[HydrogenBond]

I am in agreement there. The fox is in charge of the chicken coop.

[Fishteacher73]

If many groups of two people, committed the same crime under the same circumstances, would the person in each group with the better lawyer get the same results from the legal system as the one with less competent legal representation. The answer is obvious not in all cases; better legal representation will greater increase the odds of one getting a better deal from the legal system.

 

The way one gets better legal representation, so they can increase the odds that they will get a better result from the legal system ,is money. The more money one is able to spend on legal representation the better the odds one has in getting the desired result.

 

One must also realize that even today there are racial biased laws... The drug war is a good example...In Texas, 5 grams of crack cocaine is a 1 year min. sentence. 50 grams of powder cocaine is a minimum 1 year sentence... The moral of the story...guess what... Crack is a more "urban" drug (ie more common in non-white urban populations), powder cocaine is predominantly used by whites... As 2004 stats about prison populations...about 70% of inmates from drug convictions are African American, yet it estimated that 70% of drug offenses are perpetrated by whites...

A nice little picture of our still racial bias in law and the ineptness and inaccuracy in the "Drug War".

[HydrogenBond]

The original or most corrupt legal system was politics and money. This evolved to money. Somehow our justice system regressed, to some extent, back to politics and money.

 

The war on drugs is an illusion. US has been fighting this war for 50-80 years and appears to be losing ground. Obviously, those in the control of the war are either on the take or are very incompetent. Or, it is a front for a different agenda.

 

The positive that comes out of the war of drugs is jobs. It creates high paying tax free jobs for the inner city. Next it creates jobs for lawyers. Then law enforcement, the criminal justice system, prison system, and then all the rehab jobs, etc..It also creates fodder for the polititians to create an illusion of strength and competency. It also create a trickle down economy for cars, guns, gold jewrly, fancy houses, etc..

 

If the goal was to defeat the drug monster the solution is easy. Have Uncle Sam buy 51% of the raw drugs, i.e, lowest wholesale price. The drop the retail price so low that it wipes out all the middle men. This would cause many jobs to be loss, especially drug dealers and lawyers. The law enforcement, justice and prison systems would now have more resources and manpower to deal with real crime.

 

Uncle Sam would have to set up its own short term distribution through hospitals. There we could create new jobs, where the priests, rabbis, parents, social workers, doctors, psycholigist, etc., set up gamete of influence, with moderation leading to indifference being their goal. Prohibition creats temptation, but moderation leading to indifference is the path the former Hippies currently in power followed to become successful.

[Fishteacher73]

The positive that comes out of the war of drugs is jobs. It creates high paying tax free jobs for the inner city. Next it creates jobs for lawyers. Then law enforcement, the criminal justice system, prison system, and then all the rehab jobs, etc..It also creates fodder for the polititians to create an illusion of strength and competency. It also create a trickle down economy for cars, guns, gold jewrly, fancy houses, etc..

Drug War=Ponzi Scheme

[FetusHead]

Drug War=Ponzi Scheme

 

You just hate our freedom, terrorist.

[Qfwfq]

If many groups of two people, committed the same crime under the same circumstances, would the person in each group with the better lawyer get the same results from the legal system as the one with less competent legal representation. The answer is obvious not in all cases; better legal representation will greater increase the odds of one getting a better deal from the legal system.

Most of the trouble is that people don't vote for what's best for them.

[Southtown]

Drug War=Ponzi Scheme

“

Following the rights movements

You clamped on with your iron fists,

Drugs became conveniently

Available for all the kids...

Nearly 2 million Americans are incarcerated

In the prison system,

Prison system of the U.S...

Minor drug offenders fill your prisons

You don't even flinch

All our taxes paying for your wars

Against the new non-rich...

The percentage of Americans in the prison system

Prison system, has doubled since 1985...

All research and successful drug policy show

That treatment should be increased,

And law enforcement decreased,

While abolishing mandatory minimum sentences...

Utilizing drugs to pay for secret wars around the world,

Drugs are now your global policy,

Now you police the globe...

Drug money is used to rig elections,

And train brutal corporate sponsored

Dictators around the world...

They're trying to build a prison,

They're trying to build a prison,

They're trying to build a prison,

For you and me,

Oh baby, you and me.”

— System Of A Down, "Prison Song"

Toxicity

[questor]

i'm surprised to see posts from the ''scientific'' community unable to pin the tail on the proper donkey.

1. it is not the fault of religion that there are wars and violence.

2. it is not the fault of capitalism that there is poverty,or drug culture.

3. it is not the fault of capitalism that most crimes are committed by minorities.

4. it is not because of racism that the jails are full of blacks.

5. it is not unjust that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

use your head a little. it is not hard to discern the reasons for each of these occurrences.

as far as equal justice, why not have all lawyers set aside a certain amount of time each year for pro bono cases like many doctors do? better still, why not have crooks stop being crooks?

[Fishteacher73]

i'm surprised to see posts from the ''scientific'' community unable to pin the tail on the proper donkey.

1. it is not the fault of religion that there are wars and violence.

Nor is the fault of gasoline that is flamible...But pouring it on a fire will make it a bit more of a pressing issue.

2. it is not the fault of capitalism that there is poverty,or drug culture.

The black market is pure capitalism....

3. it is not the fault of capitalism that most crimes are committed by minorities.

Uhhh.....they are not...they are just convicted more often.

4. it is not because of racism that the jails are full of blacks.

I suppose they like the three hots and a cot then...

5. it is not unjust that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

In a pure darwinian sense no, its not. But in a humanistic view it is not the best solution to produce a sustainable society.

use your head a little. it is not hard to discern the reasons for each of these occurrences.

POVERTY!

[Southtown]

i'm surprised to see posts from the ''scientific'' community unable to pin the tail on the proper donkey.

1. it is not the fault of religion that there are wars and violence.

Nor is the fault of gasoline that is flamible...But pouring it on a fire will make it a bit more of a pressing issue.

...the abuse of an otherwise valuable entity by humans, a very good metaphor for religion.

 

2. it is not the fault of capitalism that there is poverty,or drug culture.

The black market is pure capitalism....

Capitalism would be a lot different without lobbyism. The government should govern the corporations by the will of the people, not vice versa.

 

3. it is not the fault of capitalism that most crimes are committed by minorities.

Uhhh.....they are not...they are just convicted more often.

How do you figure?

 

4. it is not because of racism that the jails are full of blacks.

I suppose they like the three hots and a cot then...

What...?

 

5. it is not unjust that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

In a pure darwinian sense no, its not. But in a humanistic view it is not the best solution to produce a sustainable society.

Charity is the only antidote, not socialism. Also, welfare, medicare, and socialist security could be straight up traded for publicly funded healthcare, pensions, and legal fees.

 

use your head a little. it is not hard to discern the reasons for each of these occurrences.

POVERTY!

Refer to previous response.

[questor]

Fishteacher, you think poverty is the cause of most of societies ills? two simple questions:

1. what causes poverty?

2. what is the best remedy for poverty?

perhaps your data sources are different from mine. i've read that AA'S are about 18% of our society, but comprise 45% + or - of the prison population. is poverty or racism or actual criminal activity the cause of this?

[Cedars]

I think I would rather see it approched in another way.

 

If a cop, prosecuting attorney, expert witness, etc with hold/present evidence which results in an innocent person going to jail, the sentence given to the innocent should be inflicted on the cop, or prosecuting attorney, expert witness, etc who provided false info or denied the convicted their rights in this miscariage of justice.

 

If the state brings a case to trial, and the person is aquitted, the state pays for all the attorney fees, time lost, suffers a payout for violating a persons rights, each day those rights were violated, and any other compensation for lost job, lost home (if your in jail without ability to bond out), etc.

 

The thing that bothers me most about what is going on in the justice depts across the country is the attitude someone must pay for a crime committed, even if its an innocent (but easy to convict) person.

[Southtown]

The thing that bothers me most about what is going on in the justice depts across the country is the attitude someone must pay for a crime committed, even if its an innocent (but easy to convict) person.

That should carry the same consequences as "crimes against humanity" in my book.

 

You're right in all points. The bureaucratic filtering of what is admissible as evidence through legal loop-holes available only at a price is abominable, and those who carelessly placate the proceedings of in justice should simply be lynch-mobbed. Consider it a crash course in true justice.

[nkt]

It is, in a way, Darwinian. Those too stupid to advise their lawyer on the best way forward will end up in jail, whilst those too dumb to understand that the doctor is wrong will die.

 

Sadly, unlike doctors, lawyers make idiots who don't understand that licking electrical sockets is hazardous rich and powerful. :-/

[questor]

for those of you who think the state is always wrong and the perp is always right, why not refuse to have police and courts in your jurisdiction? you can get a tax break and enjoy the fruits of criminal capitalism.