UFO!

[Turtle]

I video taped this UFO the other night. Neighbor kids were yelling about it & I ran out with camera & got a bit of tape. I switched to IF mode shortly into clip as it was getting dark, and quicly lost the object behind the trees. We have a lot of air traffic, but this doesn't look like a plane. :hyper: Well, for what it's worth, here's the clip. :eek2: :D

 

YouTube - UFO overhead http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAZqIhKKl5Y

 

 

EDIT: video no longer available. For the record I faked it. Tied an LED to a mylar helium balloon.

Edited September 22, 2013 by Turtle

[Queso]

flying soda can?

[Moontanman]

There is a lot of attention being put to it. That is part of the point. UFO believers want to pretned that there is proof, but it is either being ignored or there is an intentional effort to not find it. They adopted the 2nd part because no matter how much effort is ever put into researching it, NOTHING is EVER found. So rather than admit the growing LACK of data, the FAILURE of research efforts, they create a myth that research is NOT being done.

 

One thing that is ignored in many discussions about scientific knowledge, is what drives efforts in research. Sure there is the drive of the individual researcher. Something they personally are interested in. But they have to be funded. Most research going on is either high end theoretical in a very limited number of Universities. The vast majority is corporate funded. Even in most Universitites, they use corporate funding and are targetted towards areas of research that the corporate world finds of value.

 

Think of how much funding would flow in to any scientist that could provide factual proof of an actual extraterresteral visit. Just in TV shows. Books, speaking fees, sponsorship. Think of how much funding the space program/ NASA would get if they could prove an extraterrestrial entity. Look at how much they got just by suggesting that Mars might have actually had life at one time! Our space program is based on funding from interest in "outerspace". Of course they are looking for UFO's.

 

Tim, that is so much better of an approach then when someone just makes claims that somethig does exist and then the discussion is merely trying to get proof from them.

 

An open inquiry dialog can be quite interesting.

 

There have been a number of shapes, with cigar shaped being very popular for a period of time. It shows how the shape is often connected to societal interests of the time. Plus one of the early movie fakes was made using saucers and thus it's shape stuck in the mind. Add to this that many light effects such as reflections over the horizon from lensing would be elongated/ saucer shaped.

 

 

Our vision is worse at night. And all kinds of light effects occur at sunrise and more so sunset. An object in the sky can be illuminated by the sun while it is below the horizon. So yes, light is often a major element of UFO sightings. In fact many UFOs are merely light. Relections, illuminations, phosphorescence, ...

 

I do not suspect NASA in any way. It is way too small and underfunded to be a bastion of secret intell. Doe shte American Gov hide things! Is the pope catholic? But there is little logic behind most accusations specifically relating to UFOs.

 

 

What would it take to prove the existence of alien space craft visiting the earth, I don't use UFO because that is an inexact term to say the least. I know that landing at a busy international airport would do it or landing on the white House lawn but what else would do it? A photo of something that could only be an alien space craft might do it. The first Apollo space craft was followed for a short while by an unidentified object of some sort. Even NASA admits they have no explanation for it. I think that is pretty close to proof, clear pictures of this object would have done it but it always seems that no matter where the object is seen either the photos are not clear enough to prove anything or there is always the possibility of faking it. So what should we look for as real proof?

 

Michael

[snoopy]

To Turtle,

 

I dont beleive in ET UFo's but I do believe in human made ones

and I think you have one in that video it looks like some unmanned drone of which there are now plenty of.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers

 

(Interesting Vid)

:)

[Turtle]

To Turtle,

 

I dont beleive in ET UFo's but I do believe in human made ones

and I think you have one in that video it looks like some unmanned drone of which there are now plenty of.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers

 

(Interesting Vid)

:doh:

 

takk snoopy! with warmer & dryer weather setting in i can get the camera set up to run in interval mode all night. i'm mainly after meteors, but i'll take any aerial phenomena i can capture. :doh: :)

[Moontanman]

To Turtle,

 

I dont beleive in ET UFo's but I do believe in human made ones

and I think you have one in that video it looks like some unmanned drone of which there are now plenty of.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers

 

(Interesting Vid)

:)

 

I agree, it does look like an unmanned drone, one that looked almost exactly like that was recently shown on the science channel as part of future warfare the US is developing. How ever what do you think of the object that shadowed the first moon rocket for a short while? no one at the time was capable of launching anything that could follow the apollo rocket. An alien space ship would seem the only answer. Even the astronaunts thought it was ET. NASA has no explanation and at the time tried to claim it was the SRB but admitted the srb was 6000 miles away at the time.

 

Michael

[snoopy]

To Moontanman,

 

I have no idea what shadowed the apollo craft and even if it did shadow the apollo craft ?

 

NASA has no explanation either but it could have been debris or the Russians I would have to be convinced it could not have been any of these types of things of which there are too many to list first of all, before jumping to the conclusion it must be ET.

 

If you hear the sound of hooves in the distance its better to think it must be Horses rather than thinking it must be Zebra's. Even worse is thinking that there must be aliens riding on those Zebra's.

 

Cheers

:)

[Snocrash]

UFOs/Aliens... maybe they're humans from the future that are traveling in time machines and trying to tell us to stop $!#@ing up the environment or we'll all end up having to wear those ugly, green, bug-eyed radiation suits

 

I dunno what to think... maybe it's some kind of archetype the mind produces when you see something you don't understand.

[freeztar]

I dunno what to think... maybe it's some kind of archetype the mind produces when you see something you don't understand.

 

Very Jungian and a very plausible assumption!

[Turtle]

NASA lost a lawsuit, so now...

 

NASA to Search Files on '65 UFO Incident

(AP) -- NASA has agreed to search its archives once again for documents on a 1965 UFO incident in Pennsylvania, a step the space agency fought in federal court. The government has refused to open its files about what, if anything, moved across the sky and crashed in the woods near Kecksburg, Pa., 40 miles southeast of Pittsburgh. ...

 

Eyewitnesses said a flatbed truck drove away a large object shaped like an acorn and about the size of a Volkswagen bus. A mock-up based on the descriptions of local residents sits behind the Kecksburg Volunteer Fire Department.

 

UFO enthusiasts refused to let the matter die and journalist Leslie Kean of New York City sued NASA four years ago for information.

 

"This is about the public's right to know," Kean said. "We would be doing this lawsuit regardless of whether UFO groups were interested in it or not. It's a freeodm of information issue."

[Moontanman]

I video taped this UFO the other night. Neighbor kids were yelling about it & I ran out with camera & got a bit of tape. I switched to IF mode shortly into clip as it was getting dark, and quicly lost the object behind the trees. We have a lot of air traffic, but this doesn't look like a plane. :hyper: Well, for what it's worth, here's the clip. :cup: :)

 

YouTube - UFO overhead

 

Interesting flim but it looks a lot like an unmanned arial observatiom drone used by the military.

 

Michael

[Turtle]

FWIW :phones:

 

Bel Air man writes of UFOs in wartime -- baltimoresun.com

 

 

 

... Throughout almost four years of research, Chester found documents detailing sightings described as objects, lights, flares, strange lights or rockets.

 

"The sightings that were documented were considered phenomena," he said. "The military thought that they knew what they were observing, but the objects didn't match anything that was known by military intelligence."

 

The sightings he found include a silver, cigar-shaped object that looked like an airship. He also found a preponderance of information about unexplained objects reported by members of the 415th Night Fighter Squadron, a former Army Air Forces fighter squadron that fought during World War II.

 

"Some of the soldiers thought the objects they saw were beyond the realm of conventional technology," Chester said. "But there is something extraordinary happening out there ... and there is a phenomenon that exists, and I believe that it's extraterrestrial." ...

[Queso]

Are you guys aware of the disclosure project? (Havn't been following this thread)

[paigetheoracle]

A UFO is an Unidentified Flying Object.

 

As such, yes any object that is flying, that has not yet been identified, is a UFO. Do ojects exist that are flying and not immediately identified? Sure. But they stop being UFO's once they ARE identified.

 

 

 

Now the discussion changes. Once more we get into the discussion of PROOF, rather than CLAIMS or EXPLANATIONS.

 

Many things that have very simple natural explanations are often presented as UFO's. Stars, swamp gas, ball lightning, headlights reflecting off of low clouds, ... there are MANY things that cause people to claim they see something they swear are "flying saucers" from outerspace.

 

 

Extraordinary claims require Extraordinary proof. Nothing new there.

 

 

This is just another argument fallacy. Argumentum ad numerum - consists of asserting that the more people who support or believe a proposition, the more likely it is that that proposition is correct. Thousands, in fact MILLIONS, used to be absolutely convinced that the earth was flat. They made all kinds of claims to personal experience confirming it. How many people believe something has nothing to do with whether it IS true or not.

 

 

 

OK, that "makes sense". But to then propose, that since the chance of another intellegent species exists somewhere in the universe is all but certain, that we would be the intentional target of some other intellegence, that the odds of our small planet, in a at best average solar system, in an outer arm of a massive galaxy, would be THE spot in the entire universe that large numbers of aliens would intentionally visit... well... does that sound rational in ANY WAY?

 

Further that an advanced species would have nothing better to do than to sneak up on people (typically inconsequential, less educated people) and cram things up various openings.

 

Then there are the reports we get from "recovered memory". Some therapist helps a sufferer regress in time to "discover" their hidden memory of abduction. Much of this happened during the same time that another group of therapists were helping "sufferers regress in time to "discover" their hidden memory of" sexual abuse. Hundreds of each. Interestingly, there is not a single case of a UFO investigator EVER finding a sexual abuse victem, nor conversely a sexual abuse therapist finding a UFO abductee. NOT ONE! Statistically this is absurd. The ONLY assertion one can derive from this fact is that the process ALWAYS finds what it is looking for. Leaving little validity to the process.

 

I can not claim to have investigated EVERY UFO claim. But EVERY claim I have checked into falls apart when it is examined critically. And there is not a single claim that has been shown to be supported by FACTUAL evidence.

 

I hope this stuff is starting to get thru to you Tim. I hope you are starting to see why these things are so bogus. I hope you are stating to grasp what IS and what is NOT valid proof. I suggest you read

 

Logic & Fallacies

http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/logic.html

 

Learning to make a first cut of

 

Firstly, I've seen UFO's and these were not swamp gas, Earth lights etc. but obvious craft.

 

Secondly, yes let's be objective and logical about it. 'If' you did come from outer space to the Earth, would you come all that way, then turn round and leave without getting out of your craft? As for the stories of abductions not being true - what covert operation by the government or scientific expedition or even bird watching event, plays loud music, jumps up and down and dresses in bright fancy gear? None because they 'want' to work in secret or at least gain private access for their activities, so that they can carry them out with minimum disruption and without being discovered and stopped by the local population (disbelief works to allow such activity, where local attention wouldn't - it would scare off what you were trying to infiltrate or study in its natural habitat and the only reason you would be doing that is, that is your objective: Invasion or any show of strength is open and brazen).

 

This isn't to say that some of what you say isn't valid but that doesn't negate the subject because it too is logical: Until people travelled, they had no way of knowing if the Earth was flat or not - experience, not theory threw the truth in their faces (meteors were looked upon as imaginary, until somebody actually investigated the claims instead of attacking them - and in any case the truth was the truth, no matter who believed it or not - authorities have a vested interest in suppressing any rebellion against sacred cows because that is how they maintain the status quo i.e. them on top, you the ignorant peasant below. So let's not forget 'motive' in all this (wanting to belong to a belief system or open to the new like a child - protecting the old ways or discovering/ creating new ones). The truth doesn't require us to witness it or even believe in it - it exists independent of us and despite us but like a form of life, it can be suppressed into extinction by those who would hide the facts for their own purpose/ benefit.

 

I'm a truth seeker and witness. I don't dismiss what science says but I will not dismiss what I've experienced on someone else's say so either. I can't say for sure what all my experiences indicate but I do know what they aren't. Have I been in an alien craft? Not that I can consciously remember. Can I therefore say that is what I have seen? No, no more than I can say that a jet fighter flying over my head is for certain a plane as I haven't been in one of those either. All I can say for certain is that what I've seen on at least two,occasions resembled vehicles more than swamp gas, shooting stars, the moon etc. and these explanations can be instantly dismissed through comparison (Both visible for minutes, not seconds. Close enough to see in detail. The first was a multi-witness event seen in broad daylight and even reported in a book as being seen 'globally'). I will take my experiences as a first hand witness above those of a supposed expert, who wasn't even there any day. I cannot say that what other people saw but again they can and from that should be able to compare what armchair critics say about such phenomena, in relation to their own experiences.

 

As you say, we must not forget the mind in all this. It can interpret and invent things but only an actual witness knows the truth and their motives, should they lie about them (It could be attention seeking but is it? It could be out to suppress the truth as it threatens it's world view and therefore control of reality). Science and philosophy as pure disciplines want the truth - politics and individual psychology may not.:)

[snoopy]

Firstly, I've seen UFO's and these were not swamp gas, Earth lights etc. but obvious craft.

 

Secondly, yes let's be objective and logical about it. 'If' you did come from outer space to the Earth, would you come all that way, then turn round and leave without getting out of your craft? As for the stories of abductions not being true - what covert operation by the government or scientific expedition or even bird watching event, plays loud music, jumps up and down and dresses in bright fancy gear? None because they 'want' to work in secret or at least gain private access for their activities, so that they can carry them out with minimum disruption and without being discovered and stopped by the local population (disbelief works to allow such activity, where local attention wouldn't - it would scare off what you were trying to infiltrate or study in its natural habitat and the only reason you would be doing that is, that is your objective: Invasion or any show of strength is open and brazen).

 

This isn't to say that some of what you say isn't valid but that doesn't negate the subject because it too is logical: Until people travelled, they had no way of knowing if the Earth was flat or not - experience, not theory threw the truth in their faces (meteors were looked upon as imaginary, until somebody actually investigated the claims instead of attacking them - and in any case the truth was the truth, no matter who believed it or not - authorities have a vested interest in suppressing any rebellion against sacred cows because that is how they maintain the status quo i.e. them on top, you the ignorant peasant below. So let's not forget 'motive' in all this (wanting to belong to a belief system or open to the new like a child - protecting the old ways or discovering/ creating new ones). The truth doesn't require us to witness it or even believe in it - it exists independent of us and despite us but like a form of life, it can be suppressed into extinction by those who would hide the facts for their own purpose/ benefit.

 

I'm a truth seeker and witness. I don't dismiss what science says but I will not dismiss what I've experienced on someone else's say so either. I can't say for sure what all my experiences indicate but I do know what they aren't. Have I been in an alien craft? Not that I can consciously remember. Can I therefore say that is what I have seen? No, no more than I can say that a jet fighter flying over my head is for certain a plane as I haven't been in one of those either. All I can say for certain is that what I've seen on at least two,occasions resembled vehicles more than swamp gas, shooting stars, the moon etc. and these explanations can be instantly dismissed through comparison (Both visible for minutes, not seconds. Close enough to see in detail. The first was a multi-witness event seen in broad daylight and even reported in a book as being seen 'globally'). I will take my experiences as a first hand witness above those of a supposed expert, who wasn't even there any day. I cannot say that what other people saw but again they can and from that should be able to compare what armchair critics say about such phenomena, in relation to their own experiences.

 

As you say, we must not forget the mind in all this. It can interpret and invent things but only an actual witness knows the truth and their motives, should they lie about them (It could be attention seeking but is it? It could be out to suppress the truth as it threatens it's world view and therefore control of reality). Science and philosophy as pure disciplines want the truth - politics and individual psychology may not.:D

 

 

Can you describe what you saw or maybe a little drawing ??

[paigetheoracle]

Can you describe what you saw or maybe a little drawing ??

 

Oh no, not you again - is this a vendetta? Yes, I can describe it and as I say it was illustrated in John Keel's book 'UFO's: Operation Trojan Horse' (AS I'm 57 and saw it in my youth and read the book in my teens/ early twenties, it might only be available through a library or second hand, unless it's been reissued as a classic in its field since.

 

It was a long, black needle shape - several hundred feet long I should estimate (400-450 ft?). It drifted slowly between clouds at an angle of forty five degrees and was visible for at least ten minutes and could not have been a dirigible as they weren't around then. What was curious was the attitude of some school chums including a cousin, who acted as if it wasn't there - totally ignoring its existence. This also puts it outside an ordinary incident/balloon event.

[Moontanman]

If einstein is correct there could be a million civilazatrions in the galaxy and we would never have contact, especially when you spread them over time as well as space. If they are here why don't they contact us officially? Well, time travelers would want to aviod that at all costs. Maybe we live in a section of the galaxy where an intersteller civilization fell hard and they are all savages. Some Indian poetry seems to indicate a great battle with nuclear weapons but that was too long ago to check it out. Maybe civilizations don't last long enough for various reasons to conquer space. with our current tecnology, if we really wanted to , we could occupy every habital planet in the galaxy in about 250,000 years. A blink in cosmic time, so where they? Maybe no where, maybe everywhere. One of the most convincing sightings i have read about involved the crew of a b-52 bomber. they reported a huge object on radar and visually. It seemed to be real in one sweep of the radar but not the next. every other radar sweep seemed to almost disapear. these were highly trained men who had the responsability to deliver nuclear weapons. if they were seeing things them we really are in trouble.

 

Michael