Eventually death penality abolished

[questor]

Guess what Linda, on Sept. 11, 2001, terrorists ended the lives of nearly 3000

innocent Americans. does that carry any weight with you ?

[Edge]

I see morals as absolute and personal. By that, I mean that each person's personal morals are not dependent on the morals of other people, but are those that you decide for yourself. It is irrelevant what the morals of the killer are. We should not seek to lower our moral standards to that of a murderer, either personally or as a society. How you live your life should not be on the basis of a competition to see who can come out with the lowest moral standards at the end of the day.

It's not lowering your standards, it's living by them. In my standards, one should be punished for wrong doing, and depending on what was the act, the punishment should be.

 

The only thing, though, is that if you want death penalty banned for those criminals, OK, what would the punishment be?

 

Yeah, torture. I wouldn't mind it that much, but it oftens get out of hand. So, it's better to end those criminals' life than torturing them.

 

 

Likewise, we should not be basing our moral decisions of life and death on how many dollars it costs. It is important to act morally and right, and financial considerations have no place in moral decision making.

Agreed.

 

I will give you this, though. Abolish death penalty, but on the other hand, you should make those murderers, kidnappers and serial killers make hard work for most part of the day, let's say 12 hours, 8 hours for sleep and the other 4 hours for whatever they want to. What do you think of this?

 

Their punishment would be hard working in prison while they serve their time. With practically no luxuries, just normal TV, magazines and a phone call from time to time. What do you think of this? Instead of killing them, make them work, instead of just letting them be lazy buds at jail.

[Boerseun]

...just normal TV...

That would certainly be the worst form of punishment imaginable!

 

I think forcing an inmate to watch normal commercial television would be worse than death.

 

We have to respect their basic human rights and not give them access to TV at all! :confused:

[Rincewind]

Guess what Linda, on Sept. 11, 2001, terrorists ended the lives of nearly 3000

innocent Americans. does that carry any weight with you ?

About one tenth the weight of the around 30,000 innocent Iraqis killed by the direct action of the coalition forces, and around one thirty-third of the weight of those innocent lives lost according to this article:

 

'War raised Iraqi death rate by 100,000'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1338362,00.html

 

But then, that's got precious little to do with Capital Punishment.

[Rincewind]

It's not lowering your standards, it's living by them. In my standards, one should be punished for wrong doing, and depending on what was the act, the punishment should be.

 

The only thing, though, is that if you want death penalty banned for those criminals, OK, what would the punishment be?

 

Yeah, torture. I wouldn't mind it that much, but it oftens get out of hand. So, it's better to end those criminals' life than torturing them.

Well, it's lowering my standards, so I'm glad I have a government that doesn't commit murder on my behalf. And as for torture, just how low can you get? Surely this is little more than crass vengeance, and feeding one's own hatred. Not something to be admired or sought after, nor promoted by those that are in a leadership position in society.

 

Life imprisonment is, in itself, a severe punishment -- separation from loved ones, extremely long term deprivation of liberty, etc. With long prison terms is the possibility for a person to reform and rehabilitate themselves, and, in the fullness of time, become a worthwhile member of society (not always possible, admittedly).

 

The spark of humanity is in all people for those that can see it, even though many have hidden it and repressed it well, and it is our duty as fellow humans to honour that spark.

 

I will give you this, though. Abolish death penalty, but on the other hand, you should make those murderers, kidnappers and serial killers make hard work for most part of the day, let's say 12 hours, 8 hours for sleep and the other 4 hours for whatever they want to. What do you think of this?

Not an unreasonable suggestion, as long as the prisoner has time for self-improvement and rehabilitation.

[questor]

for those who oppose the death penalty, are you being consistent ?

if you oppose the death penalty, you must also oppose abortion and killing

enemies in a war. you must oppose all killings for any reason or else you are being inconsistent. in the one case, you have a person convicted of the violent taking of another's life, while the other is the taking the life of an innocent, defenseless being, or being ordered by your government to kill people who may have done you no harm.

[Boerseun]

Make LOVE, not WAR...

 

:confused: B) B)

 

...and that goes for Capital Punishment as well.

 

Fix your society, don't kill those who can't function within it...

 

Peace, brothers and sisters...

[Tarantism]

Make LOVE, not WAR...

 

B) B) B)

 

...and that goes for Capital Punishment as well.

 

Fix your society, don't kill those who can't function within it...

 

Peace, brothers and sisters...

 

now thats what im talkin' 'bout. :confused:

[Rincewind]

for those who oppose the death penalty, are you being consistent ?

if you oppose the death penalty, you must also oppose abortion and killing

enemies in a war. you must oppose all killings for any reason or else you are being inconsistent. in the one case, you have a person convicted of the violent taking of another's life, while the other is the taking the life of an innocent, defenseless being, or being ordered by your government to kill people who may have done you no harm.

Yes, I oppose war as well as capital punishment.

 

I don't oppose early-term abortion because I have seen no evidence that a zygote or an embryo is a person, therefore no basis to believe that it is murder. I personally dislike abortion, and am grateful I've never been in a situation where I have had to make such a decision for myself; but I will not judge those who have made that decision for themselves. Late term abortion I am personally against, because I believe that a fœtus could be a person, but I might be wrong about that, so I won't deny another's personal view on that issue unless it can be clearly shown otherwise.

 

You also fail to mention killing in self defence. Whilst killing is never ok, if the extreme of killing to defend yourself or your loved ones is what it takes, and non-lethal defence is inadequate, the State and Society have no place in condemning you for that action. Once again, I am grateful I've never been in a situation that required that level of force, and will not judge those who have.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Having skimmed this thread I have noticed the usual lumping together of killing on the battlefield and capital punishment. So wether you like it or not here's my two cents...

 

Take inmates from death row (serial kilers especially) load them on a plane bound for enemy territories. Upon landing give them guns and ammo then turn them loose...Bingo you've solved two problems with one easy solution. No need to send valuable productive members of society to die in a foreign land and it will be cheaper than housing prisoners for the rest of their lives...

 

Plus it gives them a sporting chance to survive (better than being straped to a table and being injected with poison).

[Tarantism]

Having skimmed this thread I have noticed the usual lumping together of killing on the battlefield and capital punishment. So wether you like it or not here's my two cents...

 

Take inmates from death row (serial kilers especially) load them on a plane bound for enemy territories. Upon landing give them guns and ammo then turn them loose...Bingo you've solved two problems with one easy solution. No need to send valuable productive members of society to die in a foreign land and it will be cheaper than housing prisoners for the rest of their lives...

 

Plus it gives them a sporting chance to survive (better than being straped to a table and being injected with poison).

as i like this idea better than capitol punishment, i will refrain from commenting on how wrong it really is. : ).

[questor]

Disturbed, great idea! the only problem is the criminals may become victorious. what do we do then? we could give them the territory they conquered and let them live, but not return here i guess.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Exactly they can live out their lives there...But if they try to come back they face death.

[Tarantism]

Exactly they can live out their lives there...But if they try to come back they face death.

why would they want to come back? : ).

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Beats me!:) but you have to figure on the possibility that they might decide to and therefore discourage it.

 

 

 

Personaly I do not support the death penalty . thou shalt not kill

In a society such as the USA where political morality is based on religious morality it is wierd that killing which is immoral is punished by killing which is also immoral by our own standards of morality

[questor]

Rincewind, i have no problem with word definition, i have a problem with deciphering the meaning of paradoxes.

you seem undecided as to what type animal will ensue from the fertilized egg

of a human being. what other animals usually ensue from this union?

you are against war but you are ok with killing if someone threatens your family. this would seem to indicate you would kill to protect yourself and some family members, but not to protect others or your country and countrymen.

i guess this also means you would prefer that in time of war, you would want your countrymen to risk their lives to protect you. am i correct in my

appraisal ?

[CraigD]

…Take inmates from death row (serial kilers especially) load them on a plane bound for enemy territories. Upon landing give them guns and ammo then turn them loose...

The movie expression of this scheme - ”The Dirty Dozen” - got a 7.7 on IMDB – pretty good for a 1967 war movie. :) A real life experiment in it was, to a small extent, tried around the same time during the Vietnam War, most notably in the infamous Americal Division of the US Army. It didn’t turn out as well as the movie. :) Soldiers of This division appear to have coined the term “frag” to mean assassinate ones commanding officers, typically with a hand grenade.

 

The basic problem would seem to be that death row inmates make poor soldiers. Land them in enemy territory, and they are likely to make tracks back home, or to some country where they can speak the local language, and recommence their life of crime of choice. The enemy need only allow or assist them in passage to such a locale, and need fear no threat from them.

 

I’ve a few friends who, as young men, accepted court offered military recruitment as an alternative to prison sentences. All were honorably discharged, and have gone on to be fairly upstanding members of society and pretty good parents. So, for youthful committers of less severe crimes, the scheme seems promising.