Power, problems?

[goku]

after these resent natural disasters, many people are left without power.

what i can't figure out is why the powerlines are not run under ground?

maybe someone here can tell me.

[C1ay]

Cost

[GAHD]

becaue, it costs more. simple as that.

 

To put them there you have to dig, insulate, and backfill. To service any problems, you have to dig, cut through the insulation, test, replace, insulate, and backfill. It's safer for everone, but it's just too expensive.

[goku]

what about the cost of repairs after natural disasters?

would the installation cost still be greater?

[GAHD]

it's not the installation so much as the cost of upkeep. especially with high-traffic areas te vibrations on the earth cause it to shift: the lines container might crack and let water in, which would short the lines. Then they'd have to spend a long time searching for the problem, and then they'd have to replace that whole section (after so many splices the line cannot be considered safe anymore). With hanging lines the process of repair can be done in a few hours at the most, with underground lines it would take quite a while to dig & replace.

[goku]

aah, i see. good point.

[rockytriton]

besides, what if some FARMER were to not check with the utility company before doing some digging and ended up zapping himself and loser power to everyone else?

[cwes99_03]

I happen to know that farmers are less likely to do such a thing. Farmers prefer to measure twice cut once, where utility companies (gas, water, phone, etc.) out in the countryside anyway, are more likely to just start digging/trenching and cut through farm tile, and everything else buried underground in order to lay their lines. I have known farmers to take revenge, in repairing tile damaged by said companies to go in and purposefully damage their in return service (usually because the utility company didn't tell the farmer they had cut through his drainage tile and just buried their mistake.)

 

If it were so expensive for the upkeep, then why are cable, phone, and even power lines buried in big cities? If the upkeep was so troublesome, then why are any lines, cable, phone, fiber, ever buried.

 

I believe the actual cost is in replacing the existing system. Once replaced they would save millions of manhours every year from every storm, hurricanes, tornadoes, severe thunderstorms, blizzards, ice storms, that damage their lines. On top of that, they would make the extra money from people using their service (vs the downtime.)

 

The only dangerous part that I know of is the need for a transformer. I guess one would have to bring the line out of the ground, up the side of the building to a transformer, and then into the building, keeping it out of reach of idiots that might try to mess with it and fry themselves.

 

I actually dug up a 9600V power line once while laying sewer lines in a small town in Illinois. JULIE had located it about two feet to the east, which ends up being where the line we wanted to tie into was. However, knowing that they were close together we dug by hand until we found it and a gas line that was also nearby.

[rockytriton]

I know, that comment was just intended to spark goku since he likes to use "SCIENTISTS" in all caps as if to be condecending.

[goku]

to be fair i know some farmers that are, shall i say, ignorant

[rockytriton]

ha, yea me too! :)

[Buffy]

If it were so expensive for the upkeep, then why are cable, phone, and even power lines buried in big cities? If the upkeep was so troublesome, then why are any lines, cable, phone, fiber, ever buried.

People don't like to look at them. It has become a status symbol since the rich parts of town all undergrounded and the keeping-up-with-the-Smith's factor drives it down the socio-economic stratta....

I believe the actual cost is in replacing the existing system. Once replaced they would save millions of manhours every year from every storm, hurricanes, tornadoes, severe thunderstorms, blizzards, ice storms, that damage their lines.

I think the premise is wrong here: places I've lived where the lines are underground have just as many problems with outages: rain in my last neighborhood usually meant that the cable was going to go out if there was more than 0.5" of precipitation, until the cable company put in fiber. And this was a fairly ritzy location way up the hill, so it wasn't prone to flooding...

The only dangerous part that I know of is the need for a transformer.

No kidding: a bunch of people were badly injured recently when an underground transformer blew up in San Francisco, lifting a multi ton concrete cover way up into the air. Scary...

 

Energized,

Buffy

[goku]

ha, yea me too! :)

:) :)

[Tormod]

hehe this discussion is really going somewhere fast.

[cwes99_03]

To be fair I know a lot of people who are ignorant. I don't believe it to be a hazard of any particular occupation. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/09/28/BAGGLEUROO1.DTL i thought it had something to do with some gas leak tied into it, or maybe it was sewer gasses? :) .

 

I think the premise is wrong here: places I've lived where the lines are underground have just as many problems with outages: rain in my last neighborhood usually meant that the cable was going to go out if there was more than 0.5" of precipitation, until the cable company put in fiber. And this was a fairly ritzy location way up the hill, so it wasn't prone to flooding...

 

First off, power lines aren't carried over fiber. Second cable to your house and through your neighborhood isn't carried through fiber. The only place fiber is currently run is for telecomm lines and only for trunk lines. There is a trunk line terminator/piggy back that allows the signal to be captured from the trunkand transfered over to a hard wire that then takes it the rest of the way to your home. Someday, maybe these things will be different, though carrying power over fiber is not every going to happen.

 

To a person with a science background it should be fairly obvious that burying power lines would at first have a rocky start. Thus you get the great amounts of initial burying cost. After burying the line, they would probably have a year or so of regular maintenance and repair to fix any installation mistakes. They had the same problem when initially installing the first suspended power lines. Water is no more a problem for buried than above ground except in high flood risk areas where the ground might move considerable distances (washouts etc.) In that cases it is easier to fix a couple of tilted poles than dig up a line and fix it, these places I don't figure they will bury it.

Additionally, the more cable gets buried the more technology will improve to help protect that buried cable. Technology will improve so that the below ground problems will not pose a problem any more.

They have been improving above ground technology, but no matter what improvements they make, they cannot prvent suspended lines from being damaged by 120 mph winds. Eventually they will go underground.