Abortion: Murder

[lindagarrette]

Until you have been there, don't you ever tell me that you know, cut and dry, what should be done in that case. I give that same respect to everyone else, despite what I believe in.

Niviene, I'm so sorry for what happened and admire your bravery. It's a lot of pain to live with and almost impossible to explain to others who can't even imagine what it's like. Many people hold opinions based on idealistic or prejudiced impressions, not personal experience. Abortion is a very emotional issue for those who face it. For others, it's a philosophical argument that doesn't affect them. The argument is almost always religious, not scientific, so those who oppose abortion are either not feeling or not knowledgeable.

[C1ay]

The problem is that people on both extreme sides of the issue refuse to listen to the slightest bit of reason from either side.

Don't you see that there more than two sides to the issue?

Thanks for helping to illustrate my point that there are not two sides to the issue; it is not black and white. It really is a case by case issue with no blanket answers. While abortion should not be a convenient eraser for irresponsibility there are plenty of cases where it should be allowed. I just can't understand the great resistance from some to consider someone else's point of view.

[Rincewind]

... a soul is imparted into an embryo upon conception...

So how do we know this?

[goku]

I see you trying to use logic, but you are skipping the logic steps where you prove that a fetus is a baby. I think that this is where the social issue gets blurry, a baby is born, a fetus isn't born.

prove? what tha!

what do you think it is? :hihi:

during birth merlin sprinkles monkey dust on the fetus and wammo you got yourself a baby. :lol:

if the fetus is not a baby, then what?

 

the definition of fetus is unborn offspring.

a fetus isn't born? don't they call that premature birth?

is a c-section considered birthing?

[goku]

The problem is that people on both extreme sides of the issue refuse to listen to the slightest bit of reason from either side. They say they do, but it goes in one ear and out the other, they refuse to really try to understand the other side.

i understand, they want to stop the new life before they develop feelings for it.

the more human it looks, the harder it is to kill.

 

na, i don't understand. being a father of three and loving them with all my heart, i can't possibly understand. :hihi:

[goku]

oh and when you talk about teen couples having sex and the girl gets pregnant, you're talking about me and my wife. i know exactly how that is. never been so scared in my life, i was only 19. telling my father, that was hard.

but, lot of praying, lot of help from my family, and we've been married now for 6 yrs, praise the lord!

[rockytriton]

You think that it is hard for you to imagine someone else having an abortion, well, imagine how hard it is for that person to have an abortion, I'm sure it's much harder on them than it is on you. If it is not hard on that person, well, would you really want a person like that to raise a child?

[goku]

You think that it is hard for you to imagine someone else having an abortion, well, imagine how hard it is for that person to have an abortion, I'm sure it's much harder on them than it is on you. If it is not hard on that person, well, would you really want a person like that to raise a child?

you're absolutely right, some people should not reproduce.

but kill the baby!? not me.

there has to be a better solution.

[C1ay]

there has to be a better solution.

What solution would you propose that does not force the mother to carry an undesired pregnancy to term? Should a woman have no sovereign rights of her own?

[rockytriton]

I just don't think anyone has a right to tell someone what they can and can't do with their body. When it is still a fetus, it is still a part of the woman's body, it's not a separate being, once it's out of her body and independant, it's a whole other story. Though I believe strongly against abortion, it's still not my body and not my right to impose my beliefs on another person.

[goku]

What solution would you propose that does not force the mother to carry an undesired pregnancy to term? Should a woman have no sovereign rights of her own?

instead of abortion clinics, tube tieing clinics.

how does she have the right to take away another's rights?

[goku]

it's not a separate being, once it's out of her body and independant,

its' dna is different.

independant you say? try putting a 2 year old on its' on and see how independant it is.

[C1ay]

its' dna is different.

independant you say? try putting a 2 year old on its' on and see how independant it is.

Abortion is not about killing 2 year olds.

[goku]

Abortion is not about killing 2 year olds.

i know. i used two because even after being outside the mother for that long the baby is still dependant upon the mother, even more so for a new born.

[rockytriton]

the baby physically independant of the bother once it is born it is not a part of the mother's body, not physically connected to the mother. The fetus is still a part of the mother's body.

[C1ay]

how does she have the right to take away another's rights?

In the case of rape she should certainly have that right since the preganancy is the result of her rights being taken from her in the first place. In a case of child abuse by a father or brother or other man she should have that right for the very same reason. When she has responsibly attempted to prevent the pregnancy from occuring in the first place by using birth control, she should retain that right. What are a woman's rights regarding her body to begin with if they can be so easily discarded? Are they not rights at all?

[C1ay]

the baby physically independant of the bother once it is born it is not a part of the mother's body, not physically connected to the mother. The fetus is still a part of the mother's body.

Samuel may still be in his mother at this point but I'm not convinced that he is still part of her. At the time of this procedure, 21 weeks, he is clearly in control of his own hand as he grasps the surgeon's finger.