Tim_Lou Posted May 20, 2004 Report Posted May 20, 2004 what do you think about bush?is he good? or bad? i bet you guys have heard of the guys get his head cut off.....well, see how bad it is over iraq... after bush came to president, 911, terrorisms.....all kinds of troubles show off.... is it b/c of him? or just the way it is today? how about the next election? is it better to not select bush? i heard that the other candidate is no better than bush... any opinions you guys have??? (well, maybe not all ppl are living in the united states....)(is this post off topic??? i dont know... sry if it is...)
Tormod Posted May 20, 2004 Report Posted May 20, 2004 No, it is not off topic and I think that even to post it in the Philosophy and Humantites section is a statement in itself. I don't live in the US but I did in 1990-1992, and I remember the night when Bill Clinton was elected...(but that's a different story). I don't think one can blame 9/11 on Bush, but I think there is every reason to blame the Iraq crisis on him and his staff. He's acting like a real cowboy. The current prison/torture scandal is a complete farce. Bush going live on TV proclaiming how important it is to show that the U.S. is a democracy and how it is important to show how they take this kind of thing seriously - and the a day or two later it turns out both he and Rumsfeld knew about it and even authorized it all along. Sickening. Tormod
Tim_Lou Posted May 20, 2004 Author Report Posted May 20, 2004 yeah.....hatred are built toward bush... like us, chinese!!!! the taiwan issue piss almost every chinese off!!!if gore had had been selected, US wouldn't've stirred up stuffs about taiwan...well, around these days, US backed up a little as i saw in newspaper.... back to the days of clinton, relationship between US and China is better.
Tormod Posted May 20, 2004 Report Posted May 20, 2004 Well, there you go - a lot of people think China should keep their hands off Taiwan. It's not always easy to understand why other countries and people act the way they do, seen from your own perspective. Tormod
Freethinker Posted May 21, 2004 Report Posted May 21, 2004 Originally posted by: Tim_Louwhat do you think about bush?Oh, you think I get going on religion? Wait till I start on Bush! is he good? or bad?This idiot child and his cronies should be locked away for the crimes they are committing. Not just lying to the American public and the entire world, but the immoral CHRISTIAN way they do things. In case I was not clear; BAD i bet you guys have heard of the guys get his head cut off.....well, see how bad it is over iraq...A horrible thing that can not be justified in any sane way. However it CAN be explained. It's called "retaliation". BUSH started it, they are retaliating. One religious ideology against another. And if you don't believe religion is behind it, you ahve not been paying attention. 9/11 was an example of a successful Faith Based Initiative. after bush came to president, 911, terrorisms.....all kinds of troubles show off....Perhaps you are not aware of the PNAC, The Project for the New American Century It is a ultra conservative political group established in 1997 with members Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Jeb Bush, and Paul Wolfowitz at the helm. If you read their White paper you will see that they set in motion in 1999 where we are at today. The wars, the military budget... Iraq was chosen to establish a military base in that area. Most strategic and of course lots of oil. The following site is one of many that exposes the PNAC. PNAC Watch -- Exposing the Project for the New American Centuryhttp://www.pnac.info/ More to follow, you will not beleive what has been going on. is it b/c of him? or just the way it is today?Bush is an idiot child pawn. A dangerous mental midget chosen by the PNAC crowd to get them into power. how about the next election? is it better to not select bush? i heard that the other candidate is no better than bush...NOBODY is as BAD as Bush, NOBODY! It is that simple. (Well most that are worse are locked away already) Kerry is a vast lessor of the evils. He is pretty harmless. Just wants political power. Not world domination. any opinions you guys have???Just astarting. And as you whould know by now, it will include lots of factual support. Not just crazy conspiracy stuff. even though you will think it is! Such as, would you like to see a movie of Donald Rumsfield and Saddam Hussein shaking hands in a photo op during one of Rummy's biz trips to sell Saddam the chemical weapons he used to "kill his own people"?http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/ You won't believe what you are going to learn.
Freethinker Posted May 21, 2004 Report Posted May 21, 2004 Originally posted by: TormodI don't think one can blame 9/11 on Bush, Then you need to see: http://www.toostupidtobepresident.com/shockwave/startrek.htm It is a flash animation which details (again with verifyable sources provided) how much Bush KNEW before 9/11. It is done as a Star Trek takeoff. Which unfortunately reduces the impact. Perhaps making it palatable to learn that we COULD have prevented 9/11 EASILY! And wonder around the site some. Lots of really good info on what is going on. Another absolute incredible shocker Thanks for the Memorieshttp://www.bushflash.com/thanks.html It is a short flash animation which documents, with references, how Saddam has been a CIA "asset" since 1959. How the US brought him to power. How we told him face to face that we did not care if he attacted Kuwait and then attacked him for doing it. The current prison/torture scandal is a complete farce. Bush going live on TV proclaiming how important it is to show that the U.S. is a democracy and how it is important to show how they take this kind of thing seriously - and the a day or two later it turns out both he and Rumsfeld knew about it and even authorized it all along. Sickening.Like I said Bush and the group should be brought up in international tribunal for war crimes.
Tim_Lou Posted May 21, 2004 Author Report Posted May 21, 2004 i personally belive that bush did a pretty bad job. compare to those of clinton, hes just way behind...... back in clinton US is stable and everything is fine......well 9/11 may not be really blamed on bush....but wars and others stuffs should... yes, i agree, bush lacks experiences in handling foreign affairs. its just stupid to get all these messes.
Freethinker Posted May 21, 2004 Report Posted May 21, 2004 Originally posted by: Tim_Loui personally belive that bush did a pretty bad job. compare to those of clinton, hes just way behind...... back in clinton US is stable and everything is fine......well 9/11 may not be really blamed on bush Tim, go to the web sites I provided above, watch the animations, then tell me he is not responsible.
Freethinker Posted May 21, 2004 Report Posted May 21, 2004 And to keep this discussion on the topic of this site, What about Bush the Anti-science President? We are talking a literal end-times Creationist fanatic that has stated that we will all be dead before we have to worry about the reprecussions of current events. On February 18, 2004, over 60 leading scientists–Nobel laureates, leading medical experts, former federal agency directors, and university chairs and presidents–signed a statement voicing their concern over the misuse of science by the Bush administration. The Union of Concerned Scientists is seeking the signatures of thousands of additional U.S. scientists in support of this effort. http://www.ucsusa.org/global_environment/rsi/page.cfm?pageID=1320
Tormod Posted May 21, 2004 Report Posted May 21, 2004 Originally posted by: FreethinkerAnd to keep this discussion on the topic of this site, What about Bush the Anti-science President? We are talking a literal end-times Creationist fanatic that has stated that we will all be dead before we have to worry about the reprecussions of current events. Agreed. Bush's anti-science plicy is simply incredible. What with the Thomas Butler case which shows that the oxymoronic war on terrorism also hits home base. http://www.fas.org/butler/index.html It is astonishing how the Bush administration tries to bring the country back to the dark ages. Don't they realize that without science - and scientists - they would never have their wonderful smart bombs, SDI and what-not. Tormod
Freethinker Posted May 21, 2004 Report Posted May 21, 2004 Originally posted by: TormodIt is astonishing how the Bush administration tries to bring the country back to the dark ages. Don't they realize that without science - and scientists - they would never have their wonderful smart bombs, SDI and what-not. Nothing new here. Religionists alwaysuse this double standard. They bemoan things that science advances yet use it to their advantage when ever possible. Bush loves his killing machines. But wants to stop stem cell research which can SAVE lives.
lindagarrette Posted May 21, 2004 Report Posted May 21, 2004 My reply to the topic is that Bush is neither good or bad, just a victim of his conditioning. Unfortunately, his position of power has caused us a lot of grief. Fortunately there are a lot of more rational people around, even some republicans(!) so we may be in for some relief soon. The problem is not going away, however, as long as so many people are greedy and intolerant. -- Pandora
sanctus Posted May 21, 2004 Report Posted May 21, 2004 Originally posted by: Tormod[Don't they realize that (....) Tormod You don't know how many times I asked myself if they don't realize, but apparently they don't. What I think about Bush (I live in Switzerland) is that he is bad and DANGEROUS. I explain: he is dangerous because he is stupid, that means one can very hardly forsee Bush's future actions, because they aren't the fruit of a logique way of thinking. If you look at Berlusconi for example (or Putin), they are as bad as Bush, but they aren't dangerous car you know their actions are the result of a logical thinking and therefore no (generally bad) surprise.
Tim_Lou Posted May 22, 2004 Author Report Posted May 22, 2004 well, 911 is prepared like years b4 it happened. ppl gota go to learn to fly air plane, they gotta get to know the systems and stuffs... and it took time to prepare such attack. the reason you should blame 911 on bush is saying that he was not ware of it and put no attention on imformation provided b4 911.
Freethinker Posted May 22, 2004 Report Posted May 22, 2004 Originally posted by: Tim_Louwell, 911 is prepared like years b4 it happened. ppl gota go to learn to fly air plane, they gotta get to know the systems and stuffs...Well dig this. Bush was trying to get a contract on a gas pipeline thru Afganastan for his big oil buddies. So he gives the Taliban $43, 000,000.00 in funding. Do a google on "$43 million-aid package on May 17, 2001." You will find a bunch of sites that use that wording. And many more that were published when this happened. From CNN: May 21, 2001Last week, U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell announced a $43 million aid package for humanitarian relief in Afghanistanhttp://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/central/05/21/afghan.deathcity/ And WHO was in charge of Afganastan at the time? The TALIBAN! The group the US formed in '88 to fight the Soviets. Bush Admin made a big deal out of this at the time, for three months, till 9/11. The Bush admin thought they were going to get their pipeline. Instead the money was traced afterwards. It was used to pay for pilot training... You guessed it, The BUSH ADMINISTRATION PAID for the training of the pilots of 9/11. and it took time to prepare such attack.We had WRITTEN REPORTS of them planning on doing this. They had tried the plane thing before and were stopped by other administrations. The French stopped the exact same attempt on the Eiffel Tower. Bush used to work for the Ben Ladin family. The only private plain allowed in the air within days after 9/11 was one plane, loaded with Be Ladins and relatives that were leaving the country. Escaping ANY US questioning. This was against FEDERAL LAW! The ONLY way that plane could fly thru our air space was with PRESIDENTIAL ORDERS. Bush personally helped the Ben Ladins and all connected to them leave the country withoout asking them a single question immediately after 9/11. the reason you should blame 911 on bush is saying that he was not ware of it and put no attention on imformation provided b4 911. He PAID for the pilot training. He INTENTIONALLY IGNORED continual demands that he do something about Osama immediately. But he wanted his pipeline. How many lives and how many billions of dollars has it cost? And we don;t even have the pipeline...YET but he's still working on it.
Tim_Lou Posted May 22, 2004 Author Report Posted May 22, 2004 well, who the hell knew 911 would happen b4 it really happened. blame someone after something had happened = bilk...see how many people say that "arh~ there is such and such imformation...", yes, if you really have it, why didnt you say it b4 it happened? find some newspaper b4 9/11/2001 that said 2 airplanes are gonna attack us to proof your right. so, bush did play some part of it but he did not cause 911.911=9/11/2001bush presidency start = 1/20/2001not so much time between... what bush did wrong is the reactions after 911.he got crazy and went to war against Afghanistan...anyway, he had a pretty good excuse for doing this.but after this, war w/ iraq! a totally unnecessary.without considering the world's feeling and other people's protesting, he just went on war!yes, i agree, oil is probably the biggest reason...united states got too many cars...remember bush decleared once that he was not for oil....totally a lie.
Freethinker Posted May 22, 2004 Report Posted May 22, 2004 Originally posted by: Tim_Louwell, who the hell knew 911 would happen b4 it really happened. Tim, when you get a notion, you will wear blinders from that point on. I have already proven that Bush Admin was an ex-business partner with the Ben Ladins, was negotiating with the Taliban, KNEW that the terrorists used hijacked airplanes as weapons, KNEW that the Taliban and Bi Ladin specifically were actively trying to attack internal US targets, was getting updates daily from out side the US tell us that this was going to happen, had intentionally dismantled the ACTIVE and EFFECTIVE methods of the Clinton Admin which had already stopped THREE PREVIOUS Taliban efforts in the US, Adim members had stopped flying commercial, Jeb Bush declared Marshal Law in Fla DAYS BEFORE for NO REASON, And lots more... Now let's add some additional info. You see the thing is, no matter how much more you learn about how directly responsible the Bush Admin is, the more that is left to learn... Let's get to the specific flights. By FEDERAL LAW, NORAD's standard operating procedure (SOP) is to scramble jet fighters whenever a jetliner goes off course or radio contact with it is lost. Between September 2000 and June 2001, fighters were scrambled 67 times. These intercept flights are intentionally set up to automatically allow for shooting the airliner out of the sky. It does not require Presidential orders becuase the proceedure was set up for instant response to imminent danger, suich as what happened on 9/11. Scramble and plane gone can happen in less than 10 minutes. On September 11th, there were fighters in the air less than 5 minutes away from the Twin Towers when the first was hit, 25 minutes after Flight 11 was known hijacked. There were a number of air stations with combat ready fighters within ten minutes' flying time from the New York City and Washington targets. There were well-established automatic procedures for intercepting aircraft that were either off-course or had lost communication. Yet there were no interceptions of any of the four hijacked aircraft, with the possible exception of Flight 93, whose interception and shoot-down is officially denied. What conclusions can be drawn from this failure, given the awesome capabilities of the air defense network?http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/analysis/norad/ Why were these SPECIFIC planes, out of the many that had previously been scrambled against, been allowed free air space, espcially after the first plane had ALREADY CRASHED into the 1st tower and was KNOWN to be hijacked? Why did Bush sit calmly in a children's class room and read a book to them while thousands of Americans were dying? AFTER being told it was happening? What rational person in this country did not stop immediately when they found out what was happening, the scale of the tragedy, and imagine if you had some level of power to actually DO something about it. Tim, what would you do if YOU had the ability to actually DO something about the situation when you are told that a plane just hit one of the towers and another one is of course and heading in that direction. And remember YOU had the completely unique ability to actually do something right that second that would have a direct effect on it. Would you go back to reading a book to children? see how many people say that "arh~ there is such and such imformation...",How many people is enough? The Israelies, the Soviets, The CIA, the FBI, The head of the Terrorist Task Force, ... He was given a President's Daily Briefing (PDB) on August 6, 2001. The PDB in question was clearly titled "Bin Ladin Determined to Strike in US." HOW MANY people is ENOUGH? Would ONE MORE made a difference? 10? 100? If Bush already knew and was ignoring it
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