President bush!

[Frogon]

Man, I was gonna say something, but all your stuff just made mine almost irrelevant...

 

Anyway, attacking Afghanistan was sort of justified, because that’s the taliban's place. But then Iraq, that’s just BS. and, the whole Saudi Arabia thing, we don't attack them just because we get oil from them. This is an oil war, not a war on terrorism.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Frogon

Man, I was gonna say something, but all your stuff just made mine almost irrelevant...

With the corporate ownership of the US media being as bad as it is, with the news being filtered so tightly, it is hard for all of this info to get out to the general population. How many people know that Rummy and Saddam were on first name, handshaking, back slapping basis? Yet the movie of it is readiy available. You would think it would make interesting viewing on TV news wouldn't you?

 

But there is SO MUCH dirt, it is absolutely incredible that they are able to suppress it as well as they do. That's why they won't put media ownership restrictions back in place.

 

Sinclair Broadcasting decides that they will not let their ABC affiliates honor our Iraqi war dead. They kill the program in the stations they own. Millions are stopped from seeing this tribute to our war dead. These markets had no competition. There are cities in which Clear Channel owns ALL the radio stations. They had switched them all to automated play lists. No live local DJ's. The town was hit by a tornado and there was no way to tell the people it was coming by the best way, local radio. Less than a half dozen major corps own virtually all of our media. Except the internet.

 

Anyway, attacking Afghanistan was sort of justified, because that’s the taliban's place.

But WHO WERE the Taliban? WHY where they there? The US put them there. Trained them, paid them, armed them. And just like every thing else, when we were done with them we tossed them to the curb. I guess they didn't like it much.

 

But then Iraq, that’s just BS. and, the whole Saudi Arabia thing, we don't attack them just because we get oil from them. This is an oil war, not a war on terrorism.

 

It is a POWER thing, plain and simple. Oil is just one f the major markers in the game.

 

Research the PNAC and you will see why we are today, right where they said they wanted us to be, back in 1999.

[Tim_Lou]

consider this:

 

what would you do if you were bush?

 

nice question, isnt it?

 

(woho! lets discuss it!!!!)

 

well, the other way around is: oil, you need, "he" needs it, "she" needs it, "it" needs it, "they" need it...."everyone" needs it...tell me if your not happy about lowering the oil price and stuffs....

 

(not saying bush is doing the right thing.... just considering...)

 

bush's position is really not easy... after 911, he must do something about it! he must! because 911 is an insult of this country! the way he did it wasnt perfect... but....

 

war w/ iraq... maybe he learnt a lesson about 911 and didnt want it to happen ever again....since he realized that the information provide is right *just like freethinker stated above*....(...still, oil is of course the 1st to put into consideration)

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Tim_Lou

consider this:

 

what would you do if you were bush?

Shoot myself. I could not live with myself if I was as much of a horrendeous failure and nightmare for the entire human civilization.

 

or...

 

Be ready to be tried for international war crimes. He can not hide behind Presidential Immunity for ever.

 

well, the other way around is: oil, you need, "he" needs it, "she" needs it, "it" needs it, "they" need it...."everyone" needs it...tell me if your not happy about lowering the oil price and stuffs....

Am I happy that I have to pay more for my gas? No But I am happy to see it happening just the same. The US has had artificially low gas prices for way too long. We have been gluttons of the earth's resources without regard to others, future resources and future generations. The Bush admin had instituted, as is typical with him, a tax break for the wealthy based on rebates for buying gas gusslers (up to $75,000.00!!!!) http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-01-20-suvs_x.htm

 

Now it is biting them in the ***. H2's are not selling. Hybrids are taking off. I find this to be benefitial. I am personally willing to pay higher gas prices if it means this country will wake up again, as it did during the last gas crisis in the '80's. And if it will force the US to make REAL efforts towards using renewable energy.

 

(not saying bush is doing the right thing.... just considering...)

Outside of suicide, the only right thing Bush could do is to turn himself and his entire administration over to the legal authorities.

 

But he is a Christian. He is not capable of admiting he is doing wrong.

 

bush's position is really not easy...

He put himself into the postition (and dragged the rest of the world along with him). I have absolutely no remorse for him.

 

after 911, he must do something about it! he must! because 911 is an insult of this country! the way he did it wasnt perfect... but....

Our current situation can not be solved by the Bush admin. It just can't. Plain and simple the only

solution is a regime change. He has destroyed any ability to negotiate with the rest of the world. He has so completely over extended the US military, there is nothing left for our own protection.

 

war w/ iraq... maybe he learnt a lesson about 911 and didnt want it to happen ever again....

No he didn't. He has stated that he can not think of a single thing he has done wrong. Just as I have stated here before. As a Fundy Christian he is not capable of admitting error.

[Freethinker]

<center>$1,000,000,000.00

ONE TRILLION DOLLARS</center>

 

What is $1,000,000,000.00? Are we another ONE TRILLION DOLLARS further in the hole as a country?

 

Not yet!

 

But give Bush a chance.

 

For the first time in the HISTORY OF THE WORLD, a national leader is proposing to CUT TAXES while at war.

 

Yes the most costly thing a country can do, going to war, and how will we cover this expense? Already hitting TWO HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS?

 

Why how else, we will give ANOTHER tax break to the upper 2% of the US. We will give them

 

<center>$1,000,000,000.00

ONE TRILLION DOLLARS</center>

 

out of the massive budget surplus we have.

 

Wait a minute! Bush spent that MASSIVE BUDGET SURPLUS, the LARGEST IN WORLD HISTORY from the DEOMCRATS (Clinton Admin) in less than a year.

 

But we are not poor enough yet!

 

Bush's corporate cronies have not raped the economy enough yet.

 

So Bush wants to give them ANOTHER

 

<center>$1,000,000,000.00

ONE TRILLION DOLLARS</center>

 

WAKE UP PEOPLE!

[cookyman]

yeah see. for example i am an aussie as people around the world call us. i think. see this is another problem with the lack of comunication bettween the countries. i don't know whether other people call us assies or australians and i also don't know what people think about us and our country. but we also have our views on other countries as for example sum australians that some americans can be arogant, but see there is my point, people could be calling us arogant as well and wat do we know about other countries and there views on us. But see freethinker sounds very opinionated about his country and can see the faults in his country. i think that is wat many of us struggle to do. we look to other countries to cridosize insted of our own. or we look to the leader of the country to blame. i think that it isn't really just the leaders fault. many of us say that we could do better than them ouselves but u try sitting up there infront of the world making decisions that can affect the course of a country or even the course of humanity.

 

lots of people call us australians nontechnologically advanced. see there is fault in that as here we have one of the leading medical reaserch instituits in the world. but in other ways we don't produce much of what we use. a lot of stuff is imported from other countries because we dont't have thehuge economy to suport the large companies of our own. and most of our idustries have been taken over by other overseas multibillion dollar companies (see i don't even know if holden car manufactions company is still australian.).

 

BUT! The main problem with the world today is comunication. and international relations. australians, americans, europeans and all other so called westernised countries should not be trying stay away and exclude some of the eastern countries and other countries that are in trouble. we should be including them in the society of the modern world. one first step is to stop calling countries etheir western or eastern. see australia in counted as a western country but geologically we are an eastern country. and also calling countries eastern or western dosn't help the situation because it is divding the world into these groups.

 

ANYWHO. what i am saying is that we should not be looking at other countries as a totally different society but just as a group of exactly the same people as u or me but just lead by a diferent person and also live their life a little differently that is all. people all belive in different things like different gods and diferent religions but that shouldn't affect how the world lives like it is now. eg. it seems that al queda and all there allies and such are waging a all out war of terorism against christains (see theres another generalisation that should not happen) but christains are wagin a war back but they call it a war on terorism. god i could go on about this for ages but i wont bore u anymore . but all i was getting at was that people should start looking at the world as one community. not a bunch of different and divided communities and many people do that just we need to take it a step further and stop making generisations about other people and their countries.

 

from afinger tired cookyman

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: cookyman

ANYWHO. what i am saying is that we should not be looking at other countries as a totally different society but just as a group of exactly the same people as u or me but just lead by a diferent person and also live their life a little differently that is all. people all belive in different things like different gods and diferent religions but that shouldn't affect how the world lives like it is now. eg. it seems that al queda and all there allies and such are waging a all out war of terorism against christains (see theres another generalisation that should not happen) but christains are wagin a war back but they call it a war on terorism. god i could go on about this for ages but i wont bore u anymore . but all i was getting at was that people should start looking at the world as one community. not a bunch of different and divided communities and many people do that just we need to take it a step further and stop making generisations about other people and their countries.

A perfect explanation about why religion, all religions, are so harmful to society. It's always "my god can beat up your god" and each's followers are willing to put whatever effort they can behind the statement.

 

As long as there is acceptance of antiquated superstitions (religions) there will be division in the world. Countries and people will align themselves with their god over the heathen infidel that believes in the other god.

 

It shows how impossible bringing the world together will be while Religion holds sway with governments. e.g. in the US the more fundy Christians all speak out against a "One World Government". They are opposed to the world being united... that is unless it is united under their god myth. So they lie when they say they are against a one world government. They are just against a SECULAR world coming together in PEACE for ALL people.

 

And Bush is their leader. Actively promoting warfare between religions and against SECULAR unity.

[Tim_Lou]

"A perfect explanation about why religion, all religions, are so harmful to society. It's always "my god can beat up your god" and each's followers are willing to put whatever effort they can behind the statement. "

 

 

but not ALL religions are about "my god can beat up your god".....and not ALL christians say "my god can beat up your god"...

 

....guess i shouldn't've brought this topic up again......ends here?

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Tim_Lou

but not ALL religions are about "my god can beat up your god".....and not ALL christians say "my god can beat up your god"...

Please show us a religion that is not based on it's god((ess)s) being THE god((ess)s). One that does not promote that it's adherents do not hold some special position with their god((ess)s) just by virtue of this knowledge.

 

And since this is a discussion about our Fundy (appointed) Resident of the White House, with the two main religions being Christianity and Islam, these are the WORST (or BEST?) Examples of it.

 

I would also love to meet a Christian that would state that their god is inferior to some other religion's. That they intentionally worship a 2nd rate god.

[Tormod]

Originally posted by: cookyman

people all belive in different things like different gods and diferent religions but that shouldn't affect how the world lives like it is now. eg. it seems that al queda and all there allies and such are waging a all out war of terorism against christains (see theres another generalisation that should not happen) but christains are wagin a war back but they call it a war on terorism.

 

from a finger tired cookyman

 

cooky, you say a lot of smart things but try to put in a line break here and there...would be easier to read your posts.

 

"Christians are waging war back" is an interesting phrase. I am not a Christian. I do not support the war. I do not support Al-Qaeda's terrorist activites, just as I do not support the US' and the so-called "coalition"s war on terror (like you imply, it's just a phrase). I feel that this war is being fought by someone else and I don't understand why it needs to be fought.

 

Norwegian soldiers fight in this war as well, one just got killed. I keep asking myself what the hell he was fighting for.

 

9/11 was a terrible, terrible thing and no matter who we point the finger at it won't put the twin towers back, nor revive all the dead people. But if there were any guts at all in Mr Bush he would try diplomacy and a host of other things before he saddled up his war machine and sent his army halfway across the globe for a war very few of us want.

 

His most astonishing comment to date was "If you're not with us, you're against us". When he said that he alienated about every ally the US has ever had.

 

Tormod

[Freethinker]

Along with "Bring it on!"

[Tim_Lou]

Buddhism is one.

 

they tell you to TOLERATE, not to BEAT OTHER GODS.

 

yes, it is based on god, but differently.

 

(lets discuss about bush, dont bring something that is redundant on.....)

 

ok, what do you think about kerry? is he good? he doesnt seem to be better than bush......

actually, both bush and kerry dont seem to be nice....what your choice of election?

who do you think will win??

(probably kerry has a better chance...bush is making more and more mistakes...)

[Frogon]

Personally I'd vote for kerry. Atleast he hasn't made any mistakes yet.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Tim_Lou

Buddhism is one.

 

they tell you to TOLERATE, not to BEAT OTHER GODS.

Buddhism does not have gods.

 

"Buddhism is unique amongst the religions of the world because it does not have any place for God"

http://www.buddhistinformation.com/buddhist_attitude_to_god.htm

 

ok, what do you think about kerry? is he good? he doesnt seem to be better than bush......

Kerry is not a war monger, religious fanatic that outright lies to the entire world. Kerry is a decorated war hero, not a AWOL coke head drunk. Kerry did not have a string of failed businesses, EVERY biz Bush touched went bankrupt.

 

Kerry is no great shakes. But there is NO COMPARISON bewteen him and Bush. Kerry is relatively harmless. He will be fairly similar to Clinton, which means a solid economy with good job growth and reasonably funded social support agenda. He won't rape the environment and unConstitutionally fund religious erfforts the way Bush has done.

 

actually, both bush and kerry dont seem to be nice....what your choice of election?

Well let's see, do we want 4 more years of the biggest string of job loses, the worst economy in history, the entire world turning against us, record deficiets, deteriorating environment, destruction of the middle class, ...

 

Or are we ready to return to the glory years like we had during Clinton?

 

who do you think will win??

 

(probably kerry has a better chance...bush is making more and more mistakes...)

 

It is Kerry's to lose, and if he doesn't pull it together he actually could. Which is nothing short of incredible with Bush doing as absolutely horribly as he is.

 

It amazes me that anyone can be so ignorant of what is going on right now that they could even consider voting for that idiot child of an *******. (Hear the song at)

http://www.bushflash.com/idiot.html

[cookyman]

Free thinker. u wanted a christian who thought that another religion if better then their own.. wel here he is me.... i am not an active christian in that i don't go t church more then once a week but only because of school. but i do not think the christianity is the top religion, if fact i do not think very highly of it sad to say. it is a shambles because there are so many types of chrisitanity like anglican, catholic, and many other types but i think religion like hinduism is better as they follow one ideal. not many different ideas so they are more intune and buddism for example is devoted to peace and kind of harmony. (sry i am not really up to scratch with some of the religions) but i see chrisianity as a bit of a shamble religion but that is only my opion but see freethinker there are christians who think there are better ideals out there.

 

Cookyman

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: cookyman

Free thinker. u wanted a christian who thought that another religion if better then their own.. wel here he is me.... i do not think the christianity is the top religion, if fact i do not think very highly of it sad to say. it is a shambles...i think religion like hinduism is better ... i see chrisianity as a bit of a shamble religion ... see freethinker there are christians who think there are better ideals out there.

 

I see, so you admit that you are intentionally wasting your life following an admittedly inferior personal philosophy that is a shambles. I guess I should not be amazed at any lack of reasoning ability or desire to sell out one's life as cheaply as possible, by a Christian.

 

I stand corrected.

[Tormod]

Originally posted by: Freethinker

Along with "Bring it on!"

 

Aahh...remember his Daddy? He said he was going to Iraq to "Kick ***".

 

Remember a lot of students at my college (horribly conservative one, as it were) hung big banners outside the dorms saying "Go Kick Saddam's ***" and said they were only quoting the President when horrified dorm managers wanted to bring the banners down.

 

But hey, how often do you get a president who quotes his own son? Kinda cute. Now we have one who "finishes what his father left for him" (except he doesn't quite live up to it).

 

Tormod