President bush!

[Freethinker]

Hey, I referenced the "Resident of the White House", his "Faith based initiatives". I tried a little! :-)

 

In fact I had intended to include mention of Shrub's turning the "National Day of Prayer" (which in itself violates the Constitution) from a Private Personal experience, to a media event. You know, being afraid to use the name of god in public?

[Freethinker]

But directly on topic.

 

Now we find that Bush is becoming so concerned about his legal liability in all of the criminal dealings he is involved in, that he is actually talking to PRIVATE CRIMINAL Attornies.

Why Does Bush Need a Lawyer?

By Dan Froomkin

Special to washingtonpost.com

Thursday, June 3, 2004; 10:47 AM

 

So President Bush has consulted with a private attorney regarding the ongoing grand jury investigation of who leaked a CIA officer's identity.

 

But why? What does this say about the status of the investigation?

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12357-2004Jun3.html

 

Or:

 

Why Bush Needs a Lawyer

 

By John Dean, FindLaw.com

June 7, 2004

... This action by Bush is a rather stunning and extraordinary development. The President of the United States is potentially hiring a private criminal defense lawyer. Unsurprisingly, the White House is doing all it can to bury the story, providing precious little detail or context for the President's action.

 

http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=18886

[Tim_Lou]

hi, irisheye, no time no see!

 

sry lol, im too lazy to argue.

 

"Tim, Take some time and think about it, ask your family and friends, and tell me in your opinion what is the reason for this hatred? More importantly, what can the U S do to make things better? And be honest."

 

well, the main and most important: taiwan, the other stuffs...i dont know much, so, reason of being angry of taiwan issue.

 

1. americans messed up with chinese policy. messing with taiwan, and everyone knows what the US is doing. (1. sell weapons to taiwan for $, 2. after independence of taiwan, US may gains some control of it, get some special rights of trading.)

 

2. americans lied, and try to scare the chinese gov't. do you think chinese will actually listen to US and let taiwan go? no, US needs china, take a look around the products you buy, and see how MANY of them are "made in china". if china and US go to war, no one will be benefited from it.

 

3. arh~ nationalism, think about it, what happen if china helped haiwaii to get independence, how would you feel about it?

 

(ok, relating this to bush....---bush does nothing but intensify the hatred toward US..) just see how his policy is on the taiwan issue. (so as iraq)

 

 

opps, missing something:

americans always think that they are the best, the wealthies, thats what make many "non-americans" angry...

[Tim_Lou]

"By FreeThinker: I have found over and over that the more religious a person is, the worse they see society as being. The less religious, the more Secular, the more we see people as naturally altruistic, rather than born sinners, and the more positive we are about society."

 

nothing bad here.

i would like knowing the truth of the society and try to help it,

rather than being innocence and fall in traps all the time!

 

+:

born sinner = hey, we are born sinner, so, we gotta do something about it!

naturally altruistic =

A: "omg, how stupid you are man, mr. B, you just gave 100 bucks to that gambler!"

B: "oh, really? i thought he needed the money to take a bus home!"

 

 

hmm.... just like bush, he tries to make this world better since he thinks they are sinners!!!!!!!! (but he failed lol)

 

(trying to help iraq lol. believing the ppl are under the rules of devil.)

 

so, someone is gonna say that religion sux! and leads bush to war with iraq...!?

 

alright, assume that he wasnt a christian, what he would do is:

after 911, oh well, nothing bad, it was all our faults, so we need to consider about ourselves!

(but even though you stop, the terrorism isnt!)

something really bad would actually happen!

 

hmm....guess i've bought up another discussion!

[IrishEyes]

Oh FreeT, I DID miss you!!!

 

Tormod, point taken. Can you tell we missed each other? Here it's been at least three weeks, and we just jump back into it, like I hadn't even seen half my continent, and yours!! I'll share more about my FABULOUS vacation if you want to know, but for now..... :

 

FreeT - You want to know something that I bet will not surprise YOU at all? I honestly can't stand shrub either!! He makes me ILL!!! Of course, many Christians will vehemently disagree, on principle. Most will say that he says he's a Christian, and that's enough. They'll point to things like the NDOP and smile and sigh. They'll defend all of those "Faith Based Initiatives" to the death. Well, I have to tell you, it just makes me SICK!! He's trying really hard to make people think he's a good lil' Christian boy, but C'mon! Is anybody really buying that act??? That's almost as bad as Billy-boy trying to make everyone think he was a loyal and faithful husband! (which also had NO BUSINESS in the media, imho!!)

 

Also, I think our times are a little off. You're talking about decades while I'm talking about centuries. Yes, the last few years, since 9/11, have brought about some obvious shifts in attitudes of many people in this country. After that tragedy, it was very 'in' to believe in God, to pray in public, to say "God Bless America" (or even have it tattooed on your person), etc. However, your "generation" is the one that I was mainly referring to when I spoke of the current state of affairs here. The post-attack return to God is fading.

 

I will again say that I am NOT representative of the general attitudes of most Christians. As for your replies to my post, did you hear my hearty chuckle when I read what you wrote?? Even half way across the country, I'm surprised if you couldn't hear me! If *I* show numerous examples of the problem with the Christian mindset, then I'd like to see an example of what you would consider a non-problematic mindset. Yours? ROTFLM*O!!! Can you HONESTLY say that there has not been a decline in the morality of the general population in the last 100 years?!? All you have to do is take a look at your television to witness the decline. You can almost see it happen on a daily basis! I'm all for free speech, but there really should be limits to what is permissable. I know that parent's should better monitor what their children see (that's why mine rarely watch, if at all), but how do you foresee something like the infamous Janet breast? That would never have happened 50 years ago. Or if it did, the woman would be out of show business at the least, and possibbly jailed or more. But very few would have even thought of it, much less attempted it and been SO successful! Truthfully, not much could be seen (unless you have a TiVo!), but the very fact that the media ran with it, and she was so blase made me ill.

 

Anyhooooo, I could go on and on with examples of what I consider the decline, but that should be for another topic, and I just am not up to keeping up with another topic right now. I've got three mountains of laundry to catch up on before I can give you guys the proper amount of time you deserve. However, I would LOVE to hear what your take on the current media blitz on the recent death of Mr. Reagan is. Any takers?????

[Uncle Martin]

Irisheyes,

 

Nudity is not a moral issue. Why is it educational to see open heart surgery(inside of a chest) on TLC, and somehow immoral to see the outside of a chest on network TV or in National Geographic? If you want to discuss morals you've got to do better than that.

 

Reagan, Hmmmm, the media blitz seems proportional to other U S president's deaths. So far, they could drag it out, that remains to be seen. Euphimistically Reagan died in 89, I mean after retiring he did as good a disappearing act as Johnny Carson. For respect of his family, or fear of Nancy, the media left him alone. Now he is fair game and I think the media machine may want to play catch up. Especially considering that it is a mostly republican owned media machine! I just hope ol' dubya doesn't try to ride on his coat tails, but they must be considering that angle. In my opinion he wasn't a great president, but he wasn't as bad as what we have at present.

[CD27]

nudity is a moral issue to me. nudidty gives the mind set of lust, and that is a sin. sins are only the names of things that we do that could potentioally cause harm to us or otehr people. lust is a sin...explaination..lets say you have your neigbor's daughter walking around nude in her back yard, yea, you kinda like that huh? well, it's a lust thought. and before long, you're gonna get kinda obsessed with it, intentionately peeking your head out the window jsut to take a look. after a few months have past, you may even do something as crazy as go knock on here door and ask her to have sex..the bad news is, she's married and her husband is right in the next room and loking right at you. oops, just made one big mistake. and it could have all be avoided if you just didn't look.

 

irish, it's nice to know we actually have another intelligent christian in these forums. pleased to meet you, i'm Eric by the way. i am also a christian,a nd am working as hard as i can, well, TRYING, without getting flushed out by freethinker. lol, but i'm surviving.

 

and, on topic as well, i personally wil vote for bush again, not because i think he's a good president, but because i think teh otehr guy is worse than he is. i mean look at him, he even loks like a hypocryte!!

[Uncle Martin]

Well now we know how you fanatics got your boy in, in the first place. Using underage voters. CD, I don't know if you'll be 18 in November, but you sure weren't in 2000. Go ahead, vote for him AGAIN!

[CD27]

well, i'll be 18 this coming up january but i think i can vote, i am after all 17 and a half years old, they allow that here in georgia, and i will definately vote for him.

[Uncle Martin]

Originally posted by: CD27

well, i'll be 18 this coming up january but i think i can vote, i am after all 17 and a half years old, they allow that here in georgia, and i will definately vote for him.

 

Yes, I've heard that about GA. Heck, we're almost neighbors, I live in Huntsville AL. I wasn't..... I repeat, .....WAS NOT born here!! Milwaukee WI is where my roots are.

[Uncle Martin]

Originally posted by: Tim_Lou

hi, irisheye, no time no see!

 

 

 

sry lol, im too lazy to argue.

 

 

 

"Tim, Take some time and think about it, ask your family and friends, and tell me in your opinion what is the reason for this hatred? More importantly, what can the U S do to make things better? And be honest."

 

 

 

well, the main and most important: taiwan, the other stuffs...i dont know much, so, reason of being angry of taiwan issue.

 

 

 

1. americans messed up with chinese policy. messing with taiwan, and everyone knows what the US is doing. (1. sell weapons to taiwan for $, 2. after independence of taiwan, US may gains some control of it, get some special rights of trading.)

 

 

 

2. americans lied, and try to scare the chinese gov't. do you think chinese will actually listen to US and let taiwan go? no, US needs china, take a look around the products you buy, and see how MANY of them are "made in china". if china and US go to war, no one will be benefited from it.

 

 

 

3. arh~ nationalism, think about it, what happen if china helped haiwaii to get independence, how would you feel about it?

 

 

 

(ok, relating this to bush....---bush does nothing but intensify the hatred toward US..) just see how his policy is on the taiwan issue. (so as iraq)

 

 

 

 

 

opps, missing something:

 

americans always think that they are the best, the wealthies, thats what make many "non-americans" angry...

 

So what you're telling me Tim,

 

To paraphrase: If the U S would mind their own business and not impose their culture, not compete economically(with the country with "most favored trade nation status") and stop being so arrogant, the rest of the world would like us again? Oh!!... I wish it were that simple. Most Americans live in a bubble, they don't even consider that the rest of the world exists. It is not through arrogance however, it is simply because they don't need to. What is happening in Ghana does not effect many U S citizens, however important it may be in Ghana. The real world is still "take care of number one". I fear that the hope of a global village is not going to be realized in my lifetime, but your generation may make it happen.

 

How can we attract more non U S members to this forum? I truly enjoy their input.

[IrishEyes]

From CD:

irish, it's nice to know we actually have another intelligent christian in these forums. pleased to meet you, i'm Eric by the way. i am also a christian,a nd am working as hard as i can, well, TRYING, without getting flushed out by freethinker. lol, but i'm surviving.

 

HellO, CD. What exactly are you working at 'as hard as you can'?

 

I think it's interesting that you identify yourself as a Christian and assume some instant cameraderie because you assume I share your views. And it's also a little sad that you would label me as 'another intelligent christian in these forums', yet you show so very little respect for Christ. If you can take the time to capitalize all of the letters in "TRYING", take the time for what truly deserves it as well. Even FreeT, a non-believer in God, will usually capitalize Jesus and Christian.

 

Do not fight FreeT on every single argument. He is a much better debater than most you will ever meet. Instead, learn from him! Read his arguments, study the links that he posts, and give him the amount of respect that he deserves. Any person that will spend the amount of time that he does posting things on a website deserves respect. Also, do not discount Tormod. Talk about intelligent! Take the time to go over his bio and read some of the things he has written, if you're not impressed, nothing else here will get to you. Neither of these people are Christians, neither believe in God. Yet, they are not stupid people. They are both incredibly intelligent. Christians don't have that market cornered, contrary to popular Christian belief.

 

Also, try to remember that this is a Science and Technology forum. I've been reminded of that enough times to know it by now. This is not a forum for shoving the Gospel down the throats of the unwilling. If you stick to the Philosophy and Humanities threads, you should be ok. But don't go mucking through the other threads unless you actually have something to contribute to the discussion. Most of the people at this forum are not here to hear about God, but to discuss science and technology. If someone starts a thread that discusses God, or Creation, your religious opinions will probably be tolerated. However, be prepared to back them up or be ready to get flamed. Investing in a flame retardant suit would be a great idea. Mine is currently a set of footie-pajamas!

[Tim_Lou]

thats simply an opinion from a chinese lol.

 

a basic idea of chinese is this:

if somebody doesnt bother you,

you SHOULD NOT bother him neither.

 

(education in china is strictly binded to morality.... education includes basic idea of how to live. (tolerance and respect are 2 of the biggest!!))

 

"How can we attract more non U S members to this forum? I truly enjoy their input"

no idea..... :S

[CD27]

lol, thank you VERY much irish. as for Freethinker and tormod, i never said they were stupid, i know how smart they are. and i am learning from them, i just find tormod to be a bit more friendlier, no offense to freethinker. and, if you have not noticed, i don't capitolize ANY letters, but i guess i can start to capitolize Jesus and God. just, help me to remember will you? it's gonna be a new habbit, i'm not good at those. lol.

 

last time i checked, isn't it against the FAQ-rules to flame someone here?

 

but, oh well, i am trying my best, i've never really had this much heated debateing in a very long time, so i'm quite rusted out. i'm getting my touch back, slowly but surely.

 

maybe, irish, it wouldn't be so bad a thing if i followed after you? after all, you have been here wuite a bit longer than i have. you're a good example to follow, would that be okay?

 

Eric

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: IrishEyes

I think it's interesting that you identify yourself as a Christian and assume some instant cameraderie because you assume I share your views. And it's also a little sad that you would label me as 'another intelligent christian in these forums', yet you show so very little respect for Christ.

Hahahaha....... I can hardly stand it..... my side hurts.....

 

Yep here we are again. Two people that each CLAIM to be Christian, yet they are at each other BECAUSE of it.

 

"I'm the REAL Christian"

 

"No I AM!"

 

I've said it here numerous times, and here you are proving it again. There is really only ONE Christian in the world, and that is the one person I am talking to right then. Because they are always telling me why everyone else isn't

 

You guys are a riot!

Do not fight FreeT on every single argument. He is a much better debater than most you will ever meet. Instead, learn from him! Read his arguments, study the links that he posts, and give him the amount of respect that he deserves.

Forget the respect... SEND MONEY! :-)

They are both incredibly intelligent. Christians don't have that market cornered, contrary to popular Christian belief.

Ah, actually studies show an inverse (negative) correlation between IQ/ Education/ Scientific Standing... and religious belief. The higher the IQ, the better the education, the more highly regarded the scientist, the more likely they are to be a non-believer.

Investing in a flame retardant suit would be a great idea. Mine is currently a set of footie-pajamas!

It's just good practice for your eternity! :-)

 

Have a good weekend.

 

I'm outta here!

[IrishEyes]

maybe, irish, it wouldn't be so bad a thing if i followed after you? after all, you have been here wuite a bit longer than i have. you're a good example to follow, would that be okay?

 

CD, please! NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!

 

Don't 'follow after' me. To quote my fave b-ball player: "I'm not a role model!" My gosh, just look at how FreeT rips me to shreds to see what a HORRIBLE idea that would be. Don't 'follow after' anyone!! Use your own brain. Form your own arguments. Yes, you can borrow someone else's ideas for a start, but do not stop trying to figure things out for yourself. Question EVERYTHING, including your personal belief in God. WHY do you have those beliefs? WHAT FACTS support those beliefs? Are you a blind believer, or do you require proof for your beliefs? Check out FreeT's explanation of the Atheism/Agnosticism argument for more on this.

 

and, if you have not noticed, i don't capitolize ANY letters

 

Yes, you do capitalize some letters, if they are important to you. I'm only suggesting that you try to remember what should be truly important.

 

last time i checked, isn't it against the FAQ-rules to flame someone here?

 

Yes, the FAQ states that flames are not allowed. However, you will find that your definition of flame is not always going to be the same as the moderator's definition. No offense, Tormod, but you really are very permissive when it comes to some people and their responses. Name calling and direct insults are often not regarded as flames, and are even sometimes re-inforced. Of course, I have also been the recipient of your lenience, so I'm not going to complain too loud!! ;-P

[IrishEyes]

Yep here we are again. Two people that each CLAIM to be Christian, yet they are at each other BECAUSE of it.

 

"I'm the REAL Christian"

 

"No I AM!"

 

I've said it here numerous times, and here you are proving it again. There is really only ONE Christian in the world, and that is the one person I am talking to right then. Because they are always telling me why everyone else isn't

 

You guys are a riot!

 

FreeT, take another look please. CD is not 'at' me. I am not 'at' CD. Neither one of us said that the other is not a Christian. Nor did either one of us claim to be a "real" Christian.

 

Forget the respect... SEND MONEY! :-)

Oh come now, you know that all of my money is going to Jerry and Jim and Billy and Tammy and that conscience check I'm bouncing this year and...the list is endless

 

 

Ah, actually studies show an inverse (negative) correlation between IQ/ Education/ Scientific Standing... and religious belief. The higher the IQ, the better the education, the more highly regarded the scientist, the more likely they are to be a non-believer.

 

Ok, I'm a little out of practice following your logic on this one. You mean that studies show that smart people are atheists? Or atheists are smart people? Or if I'm not a scientist, then I'm not smart? Or if I have a high IQ, then I'll get a better education, and I'll become a highly regarded scientist, and THEN I get to become an atheist? I'm asking because we've already covered that I'm not an idiot, by IQ standards. I actually have what is generally regarded as a fairly high IQ (Above 130, by MENSA's standards, remember the discussion?), I have a decent education, as evidenced by my 'diploma wall', I'm fairly well regarded (though not a scientist), yet I still believe in God. Or am I just making too many leaps? You only meant to show that IQ/Education/Scientific Standing/Religious Beliefs did not go together? UGH! I'm so confuzzed!!

 

Have a good weekend.

 

And I have to wait until MONDAY for a response???!!??? DRAT!!!!!