???LOVE???

[L Stencil]

Hello there everyone, i just got cheated on with my girl friend of 8 months. i know this sin't a real long time or anything but i thought i was deeply in love and i was almost sure she was too, and just the other night she cheates on me and the next day is going to church with the dudes family and going to the beach with him weird, ur telling me but if she was in love what could have just changed her mind all of the sudden like that. how does love work is there really something a man and woman can mutually share and call it love? i really don't know and when is it real if i haven't really been in love then what is real love or is it something conjured up to make a false sence of security between two people of the opposite sex. I feel hurt yes but also curious at the same time you know it just makes you wonder why does love always fail but at the same time it also succedes. is love just a test or trial for the real love the kind that lasts and doesn't fail i think love is a interesting topic to discuss and i'd like to hear what everyone else thinks love really is because i think love is dying as time goes on and the word might not be as powerful as it once was but i have also not given up all hope either because i belive what happens is made to happen by the big man! i know this is written horribly but just responed with some of your own philospheys on love

[lindagarrette]

An interesting topic, worthy of scientific investigation. My understanding is that love is a chemical response to various stimuli in the brain. It usually results in a physical condition that can last for 18 months to three years then dissipates, unless there are obstacles. If a relationship continues after the initial stage, it becomes one of attachment and close friendship. That's why "the honeymoon" is usually over for at least one of the people sometime during the experience. Eight months doesn't seem long enough so maybe she was not "in love" with you in the first place. I have some references (links) on this matter I can post if anyone is curious. It's all about how the brain works.

[Freethinker]

I have to assume you are a young guy L. And rather than make this a Dear Abby or Oprah show, I will stick to biology/ anthropology?

 

In recent research it has been found, by checking the DNA, that animal societies we had thought were more monogomous or patriarchal dominating, that in fact many of the offsprings were not from the alpha male/ partner. It would seem that in nature female philadery is the norm.

 

"Few Birds Are Faithful

Until the advent of genetic testing in the late 1980s, 90 percent of bird species were thought to be monogamous. DNA analysis of nestlings put the kibosh on that idea. Roughly 90 percent of bird species pair-bond—hook up for a breeding season and raise chicks together. But few are faithful and many males wind up raising other males' babies."

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/02/0212_040213_lovebirds.html

 

 

"But animal behaviour expert Mike Siva-Jothy of Sheffield University argues that tricking males into being monogamous isn't the only reason for females' high sex drive. Having lots of sex with lots of different males might ensure that at least some of their offspring were fathered by good-quality mates.

 

Although this idea doesn't fit with the traditional view of monogamous societies, Siva-Jothy points out that even in species where pairs bond for life, the females cheat. "When avian biologists went out and looked at the DNA profiles of the offspring, they found that everyone was having a romping time," he says. But so long as females can fool males into thinking they are being faithful, their strategy of hidden fertility will still work. "They have to be cryptic because they don't want their partner to find out," says Siva-Jothy."

http://www.csulb.edu/~kmacd/monogamy-animals.htm

 

So your girlfriend (?) is just being human.

 

It had been thought that Evolution set up male polygamy to provide diversity of species. THat by the 'superior alpha male" being the source of most progeny, the strongest genetics are inherited. And that female monogomy provided the female and her children the greatest source of protection. But we are now finding that in what had seemed to be monogomous animal species, the fmales have often developed processes that hide their state of fertility. Thus they can philander unnoticed and still get the protect of the alpha male.

 

It would therefore seem that nature is set up to promote partnering for protective, even (emotional) reasons, but not procreation. Once again diversity providing an Evolutionary advantage.

 

Thus the ultimate question becomes, why has some parts of human society decided, perhaps artificially, that exclusivity is a desirable thing?

[L Stencil]

Hi there agian i'm glad you guys posted and i don't really want you to think this is some dear abby thing..lol

 

I gave you the example of the girlfriend thing because i thought it would interest more to the topic. the thing about love to me that is weird is that which changes your inner person for better or worse but also how it can change you completley and everyone has almost experinced that or have known someone who has and to me thats the mistery why does love change you? i know science has proved your brain is on a different level but how does that make you change i mean i feel like a whole new person in one instant, and thats what i want to figure out becasue that to me is unexplained.

 

Freethinker i like the name by the way you said

So your girlfriend (?) is just being human.

if that is how you can justify that by being human i can't see why i mean yes shes just being human but to me there is no lower form of human than what she did and if thats human why wouldn't i do it? if your righrt and it is just human what has humanity come to my firend where morals and loyalty are things of the past do you feel these things still carry the same weight? ok i could go on all day lol write back i'd like to continue talking i like your ideas and its always fun to get others opionions.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: L Stencil

to me thats the mistery why does love change you?

You just have to realize how strong of an Evolutionary hardwired drive procreation is. If our brains were not so heavily biased towards mating oiur species would not have survived this long. I see no mystery in it. It has a very understandable natural underpinning.

i know science has proved your brain is on a different level

Please explain what you mean by this? Do you mean that when you are "in love" a person's brain operates differently?

 

but how does that make you change i mean i feel like a whole new person in one instant, and thats what i want to figure out becasue that to me is unexplained.

Pheromones, endophines, ... again, science has a well established understanding of the physiological process. Perfumes and chocolate can duplicate many of the same "feelings". Though chocolate leaves even a messier wet spot if spilled on the sheets.

 

Freethinker i like the name by the way

Thanks, I like the process.

 

you said

So your girlfriend (?) is just being human.

if that is how you can justify that by being human i can't see why i mean yes shes just being human but to me there is no lower form of human than what she did and if thats human why wouldn't i do it? if your righrt and it is just human what has humanity come to my firend where morals and loyalty are things of the past

It is always interesting to find out what people think the "past" is. You seem to be trying to assert that an exclusive monogomous relationship is natural and the only way it has ever been. Actually this is not the case. Even the bible is filled with contrary examples. Concubines, daughters seducing their father, fathers giving their daughters out for sex, men taking women as war booty, wives providing sex slaves to their husbands, promotion of men killing their wives for various reasons, ... all promoted as acceptable processes in the bible.

 

You are trying to assert that your personal view on the issue must be what is the accepted moral code. This is not the case.

 

Did you have an actual agreement of exclusivity with your girlfriend? Or was it an assumption on your part? If she broke an agreement, then she has shown herself to not be trustworthy. Is that a personality trait you want in a girlfriend? Or did you assume that because YOU wanted exclusivity, she automatically agreed? And would you turn down an "opportunity"? Or is the exclusivity requirement not bidirectional?

 

One discussion that is very common is "Who would you NOT say NO to?" Is there some person, actor, public figure, ex-girlfriend, ... that you would not refuse? B Spears? Sharon Stone? some MILF? Each person draws their own line in the sand. The trick is to have an open enough line of communications as to know where each's line is. And for the other person to have the personal integrity to stand behind the line.

[L Stencil]

know science has proved your brain is on a different level

by this i simply meant when your in love. as you suggested. i am in a rush right now but i think that what she did is worng and it has changed her and i and if you had to level what would you say and why?

[Freethinker]

I would say "Goodbye".

 

If you are looking for a relationship, she obviously either is not or does not comprehend what one is. Either way, life goes on and you are better off withut her.

[L Stencil]

This is what i knew i should do and have done. but the real thing about something like this just shows you that nothing is predictable and i think shows that there is a world with endless possiblities and out comes and thats the best thing about life.

[OpenMind5]

I think Love is what you make it. It bepends on the person, and how they feel. Some people believe it is a false security, while others make a religion out of it. Love is what you make it out to be. Love is a strong emotion, and yes emotions exsist. Love has been tryed to befined by poets, song writers, artists, and many more. I feel love is the beginning and the end. You were brought into this wolrd with love of some level, and you will leave with love of some level. Many ask, how do u know when your in love...and the answer is always...you just do. This is a question where the answer is in yourslef. As i said before..LOVE is what you make it.

[geko]

What's called love is a personal feeling, not something that's 'shared' between two people. In my opinion love is a descriptive term used to describe an intense mixture of feelings felt towards something.

 

You love your partner, you love your family, you love your cat.

 

When i feel strongly this way towards someone (and i've only felt it twice) i try and describe, maybe even seperate, the feelings (respect, lust, etc.,) rather than except the banner of love.

 

I always respect my partners (even people) to the extent that they can go and do whatever they want to go and do. This, along with the belief that only very rarely can i assume i have a right to restrict another persons' behaviour, gives my partners and friends what i feel is some freedom (which is what i try and do).

 

Geko

[geko]

What's called love is a personal feeling, not something that's 'shared' between two people. In my opinion love is a descriptive term used to describe an intense mixture of feelings felt towards something.

 

You love your partner, you love your family, you love your cat.

 

When i feel strongly this way towards someone (and i've only felt it twice) i try and describe, maybe even seperate, the feelings (respect, lust, etc.,) rather than except the banner of love.

 

I always respect my partners (even people) to the extent that they can go and do whatever they want to go and do. This, along with the belief that only very rarely can i assume i have a right to restrict another persons' behaviour, gives my partners and friends what i feel is some freedom (which is what i try and do).

 

Geko

[lindagarrette]

I disagree. Love is much more than a personal feeling. It is part of our system of basic drives which include: seeking, anger, fear (panic), lust, sense of loss. The sense of loss is important because a relationship is an emotional attachment and can only last if there is a notion of security. To love someone is to understand that need and respect it. To be loved means to be open to feeling the loss. I'm not just making this up. It's a Freudian concept that has revitalized recently with studies of brain functions under stress.

[Uncle Martin]

I would like to add to Lindagarrete's reply by saying that any relationship takes on a life of it's own. It is one example of 1+1=3 (metaphorically speaking). A relationship takes on it's own identity. It is not alive, but it surely exists. It exists independently of the other beings involved. When it ends, we experience the same sense of loss as something loved having died. In a very real sense, something has. I know that I love the relationship that is my wife's and mine. If one of us were gone tomorrow, the relationship would still exist. Grieving is the natural response to that level of perceived loss.

[Tim_Lou]

i think the reason y love exists is because of the fear of loneliness.

 

humans used to be a group type of organisms. loneliness is a fearful thing to most of us.

[geko]

Originally posted by: lindagarrette

 

I disagree. Love is much more than a personal feeling....

 

 

A) [bECAUSE...] It is part of our system of basic drives which include: seeking, anger, fear (panic), lust, sense of loss. The sense of loss is important because a relationship is an emotional attachment and can only last if there is a notion of security. To love someone is to understand that need and respect it.

 

 

B) To be loved means to be open to feeling the loss.

 

 

 

Everything in A are personal feelings. I would also add that a relationship is not dependant on security. Sure, this may be something that you get from it, but it's not dependant on it. This sounds more like something that you've chosen that you're going to base the relationship on. You want security, you get a partner.

 

I dont understand B.

 

Uncle martin, you said that "It exists independently of the other beings involved.", which means, i think, it's a personal feeling?

 

loneliness i think is a reason why some people go into a relationship in the first place, and they stay in the relationship way after it's over because of this ("fear of being left on the shelf"), which has zero to do with the majority's believed definition of love in my opinion.

[lindagarrette]

Geko is not paying attention. All mammals have the sense of loss that is related to love, dependence and security. It's a survival factor. It is most evident in maternal love. This is not just my opinion.

[Uncle Martin]

Very good point Lindagarrette,

 

This is not limited to Homo Sapiens. Canada geese are known to be monogomous and usually have only one mate, for life. When I was a younger man I was an avid hunter and on several occasions after killing one goose it's mate would circle after having been shot at and sometimes land and try to help it's dead mate!!! It would not leave it's mate until it's death also. Several other examples of a similar incident led me to stop hunting altogether. (this is a subject for another forum, and one that I'm not proud of now)

 

Geko,

I have to assume that you have either never been in love, or when you were, the feeling was not reciprocated. A true loving relationship is most definately a factor in our survival. Without that monogomous loving relationship our ancestors would not have been able to give the unusually long nurturing that humans need to develope to the level that we do. We evolved to be what we are because of love, and love evolved to be what it is because of us. They cannot be separated. A loving, nurturing environment was the norm in my youth, is it possible that the ease with which we abandon our familial responsibilities today is responsible for our current social ills? Seems a reasonable assumption!!!

 

My dog would jump into the mouth of T Rex to save me from harm, and I would run through eight lanes of sixty mile per hour traffic to save his. As I lie dying on the pavement, I would feel nothing but relief knowing my dog was alright. The same for everyone else that I have loving feelings for. That is a profound feeling, and I hope you can experience it someday. Please don't belittle it, I find that to be quite Offensive.