Natural Drugs illegal?

[Rincewind]

what is better than smoking marijuana with an attractive girl,

Yeah...

 

with amazing eyes,

Oooh, yeah...

 

and then playing harry potter on xbox. oh boy do i love being a kid. :evil:

This must be where the generation gap really kicks in. :)

[KillMeBySuicide]

natural drugs should not be illegal. especially since most thingsthat companies sell are all chemical drugs. which are much more damaging to the body than anything natural.

 

its interesting that companies don't sell marijuana as a dietary supplement. because after smoking it your metablism speeds up, so in truth it would help you burn of useless calories.

 

it is a good argument.

[Queso]

not really.

you see the trade-off here is this.

YES, your metabolism speeds up

but man, when you have the munchies

YOU EAT AND EAT AND EAT

 

Balanced. :lol:

[KillMeBySuicide]

there is no doubt that when you get high you eat and eat and eat. when you get high your body is burning off calories. and if you injest food that doesn't amount to more than the niumber of calories your burning off, you are losing weight. that just means that instead of eating junk food, you should eat things like fruits and vegetables instead of chips and ice cream.

 

what people neglect this fact. but if you can control your urges, and monitor what you eat when you are high, then you can lose weight. the control must come from self motivation though. and thats an entirely different argument in itself.

[InfiniteNow]

there is no doubt that when you get high you eat and eat and eat. when you get high your body is burning off calories. and if you injest food that doesn't amount to more than the niumber of calories your burning off, you are losing weight. that just means that instead of eating junk food, you should eat things like fruits and vegetables instead of chips and ice cream.

 

what people neglect this fact. but if you can control your urges, and monitor what you eat when you are high, then you can lose weight. the control must come from self motivation though. and thats an entirely different argument in itself.

You're totally correct. Burn off more than you ingest = lose weight... Problem is your chances of controlling the aforementioned urges decreases as well since the inhibition that the prefrontal cortex exerts on the amydala and hippocampal regions (inhibition which helps us control ourselves and our various urges) is lessened when influenced by drugs or alcohol.

[Tarantism]

actually, i feel that i have more control over my urges and my thoughts and body whe i am high...i rarely gorge on food like some stoners do, and i am rather skinny and lankey...no problems. now, i have nver had to lose weight, but all im saying is taht i have never had trouble controlling any ugre.

[InfiniteNow]

actually, i feel that i have more control over my urges and my thoughts and body whe i am high...i rarely gorge on food like some stoners do, and i am rather skinny and lankey...no problems. now, i have nver had to lose weight, but all im saying is taht i have never had trouble controlling any ugre.

There are, indeed, always outliers (or someone with a greater standard deviation from the mean) on any bell curve. What about the urge for the high itself? How do you do when trying to control that? I remember (very fragmentedly of course) that when I was smoking a lot, it was very tough to not smoke... but I suppose I could just be an average 1 in the mass of the many...

 

Cheers. :lol:

[Tarantism]

yeah i have an urge to smoke, but i have never seen any need to discontinue the activity, especially when i have weed. i think that it is possible for me to control taht urge, however i have never actually tried to so i dont know really.

 

cheers, man.

[CraigD]

because after smoking it your metablism speeds up, so in truth it would help you burn of useless calories.

Sadly, I don’t think this is true.

 

Metabolism – the conversion of ingested substances into physical work, tissue (eg: muscle or fat), and other substances – is, in humans and similar animals measurable almost entirely by oxygen intake. The only substantial way to increase oxygen intake, and thus metabolism, and thus not gain weight from ingesting food, is to increase the amount of physical work you body is doing.

 

Smoking nearly any combustion by-product causes your oxygen-transport molecules (hemoglobin) to bond persistently (for up to several hours) with carbon monoxide (CO), typically slightly reducing your rate of oxygen intake and metabolism, and current maximum metabolic potential. This is why you shouldn’t smoke before running, or other aerobically intense activity.

 

However, cannaboids are mild stimulants, making it less likely that one will sleep after eating, so, provided one avoids excessively high-calorie foods (eg: pop-tarts and chips), succumbing to the ganja-induced munchies is unlikely to have much long term effect, good or bad, on your weight or health. :lol:

[Beef_Bourito]

I personally think that for certain people marijuana is ok, not healthy but they won't get addicted or go on to harder drugs. for others however it leads to harder drugs and then homelessness and prostitution. Another thing is that you can't drive as well whilst under the influence of drugs or alcohol. this poses the problem of driving high, how can you tell if someone is high? Because their pupils are dialated? i know a few people whose pupils are so big you can barely see their irises. if you drive drunk, you can do a blow test to check, if you're high you need a blood or urine test to see.

 

next is that there are serious health problems involved with concuming certain drugs, mushrooms are poisonous, that's what gives you the high. consuming too many of those will cause serious and permanent neurological damage. Many halucinogens are fat soluble so you could be excercising and get a flashback, think the walls are trying to eat you and hurt the people around you.

 

What about heroine, it's terribly addictive and harmful to the body. it's a natural product derived from the poppy plant. this could get a whole bunch of people addicted to the point of not being able to work, and in canada costing millions of dollars in health care.

 

From this perspective all drugs that alter your state of mind should be illegal, alcohol, smoking, drugs, medicinal drugs, etc. but that wouldn't be practical since many of those drugs are helpfull to society in curing diseases, mental illnesses, and aiding in general health. the logical thing to do is to help society. allow certain drugs to be consumed as doctor prescribed medicines. this way the general public wouldn't have access to the drugs legally, you would have less people getting drunk in public and hurting others, etc. then you ask yourself what about wine and champaign, people drink that on special occasions and it's integral to our society. so you would have to legalise alcohol but have stricter punishments for public drunkeness and alcohol consumption related crimes.

 

On the other hand, the problem won't go away by making it illegal, but i think that marijuana should be decriminalised. in canada you're allowed to have up to 15 grams of marijuana without being charged, it just gets confiscated. if you're caught smoking a joint in public you are asked to destroy it and hand over any other mary jane. plus cops rarely give out punishements for marijuana because it's too much paperwork. in Canada, cops have soo much paperwork to do for anything they're afraid to pull out their gun, if they do it's a stack of paperwork but that's another topic.

 

I think that certain drugs under a certain ammount should be decriminalised but not legalised so that if you have up to x grams you get a fine of x dollars. if you are caught traffiking it should be a criminal offence.

 

Another aspect of mary is that it apparently makes people lazy, studies have shown that teens who consume ms Jane are less active, both on and off the drug, than teens who don't consume any.

 

Now I'm not going to say that I've never had a date with Ms Jane but i do accept the studies and the fact that many people who get involved with marijuana get involved in more harmeful drugs so i think that society as a whole would be better off without drugs or alcohol.

[inside the sun]

some people dont know what they are talking about.

for instance some people wouldnt know that some people drive better under the influence of marijuana.

that over time cocaine makes you a better athlete and builds stamina.

and that over all a good amount of drugs open your mind and make you more creative and confident.

yes there are those bad things too, drugs aren't for everyone, some people cannot handle the power that they possess, but it is unfair for those of you that fear the unknown to judge the Explorers. if everyone was like you, staying afraid of the unknown we would be confined to one continent, no one would have explored the unknown and found new territory, we wouldnt have explored the seas or the skies.

[Loricybin]

I personally think that for certain people marijuana is ok, not healthy but they won't get addicted or go on to harder drugs. for others however it leads to harder drugs and then homelessness and prostitution.

 

i'm sorry, but i feel legitamitely proving this would be very difficult. More than that, in my experiences, the people who seek a certain kind of intelligence and respect for nature out of cannibus tend not to pollute their bodies with such man made lunacies like methamphetime, and heroin.

 

Another thing is that you can't drive as well whilst under the influence of drugs or alcohol. this poses the problem of driving high, how can you tell if someone is high? Because their pupils are dialated?

 

sorry, but pupils dialated? that would exclude alchohol and pot, the most common and (alchohol being) the worst legal drug to operate a vehicle.

 

next is that there are serious health problems involved with concuming certain drugs, mushrooms are poisonous, that's what gives you the high. consuming too many of those will cause serious and permanent neurological damage.

 

this is true, and misleading.

mushrooms are definitely a poison, but the amount required for that kind of damage is much higher than a regular drug.

 

From this perspective all drugs that alter your state of mind should be illegal, alcohol, smoking, drugs, medicinal drugs, etc. but that wouldn't be practical since many of those drugs are helpfull to society in curing diseases, mental illnesses, and aiding in general health. the logical thing to do is to help society. allow certain drugs to be consumed as doctor prescribed medicines. this way the general public wouldn't have access to the drugs legally, you would have less people getting drunk in public and hurting others, etc. then you ask yourself what about wine and champaign, people drink that on special occasions and it's integral to our society. so you would have to legalise alcohol but have stricter punishments for public drunkeness and alcohol consumption related crimes.

 

WHAT?!?!? so does this mean anything in pill form should be legal?

what about the doctors who don't know what they're doing? i've encountered plenty of those, and they have the power to give stupid things to stupid people.

 

On the other hand, the problem won't go away by making it illegal, but i think that marijuana should be decriminalised. . .

 

QUITE

 

Another aspect of mary is that it apparently makes people lazy, studies have shown that teens who consume ms Jane are less active, both on and off the drug, than teens who don't consume any.

 

Now I'm not going to say that I've never had a date with Ms Jane but i do accept the studies and the fact that many people who get involved with marijuana get involved in more harmeful drugs so i think that society as a whole would be better off without drugs or alcohol.

 

again I'm finding myself agreeing, but finding flaws in your logic.

alchohol is very troublesome, but only in the wrong hands. unfortunately it is impossible to tell the right people from the wrong ones.

it might be interesting to see what happens if the only legal alchohol is alchohol made by yourself.

 

my theory is that only people who respected and understood booze would use it, resulting in less chaos and a finer drinking crowd.

(of course this is crude concept)

 

at any rate, i think mushrooms are vital to human mental evolution, and i don't think the interference brought about as of late

[Biochemist]

Heavens, this thread seems to be a stream of consciousness.

 

1) In the US, the DEA enforces drug laws. Laws are usually made based on popular pressure (or perception of pressure) and are hence unevenly legislated. Generally, those drugs (natural or not) that are likely to be acutely toxic (that is, they kill you quickly) tend to be outlawed quickest. Mushrooms (e.g., amanitia varieties) are a particularly toxic, painful and untreatable way to expire. Please do not pretend mushrooms are not dangerous. It takes weeks to die in a grisly fashion from an amanita overdose.

 

2) There are many naturally occurring, pharmacollogically products that are perfectly legal and essentially over-the-counter. They range from cigarettes to alcohol, or even caffeine beverages.

 

3) There is another set of products that are naturally occuring and useful, but are viewed as dangerous (by that unevely applied legislation again) and they are maintainted as prescriptions. They range from drugs that have potential for abuse (e.g., morphine, oxycodone) and drugs that have no abuse characteristics, but still have therapeutic value (e.g., digoxin for congestive failure, aspariginase or vincristine for cancer).

 

4) The set of drugs that are listed as illegal in the US are an uneven group, and are driven a much by market dynamics as anything else. Heroin is no more dangerous that any other opiate (e.g., morphine) but is illegal because it is the most common opiate analog for sale to abusers. Heroin is the one that drug trafikkers use, because it is easy to make (by di-acetylating morphine) and it is six times as potent. The drug trafikkers just make more money with heroin than morphine. Marijuana is illegal in the US for a host of odd reasons, most dating back to the 1930s. Marijuana is not particularly dangerous, but it us broadly abused, has relatively few therapeutic uses (although there are two- glaucoma and nausea) so it hits the DEA list.

 

5) There is no relationship between being naturally occurring and being illegal. Some are, some aren't. There is also no relationship between being naturally occurring and being safe. Many naturally occurring products are highly toxic, and we generally expect the government to protest us from ourselves. That is why we have speed laws, too.

 

6) Lastly, there is no relationship between being addictive and being dangerous either. "Dangerous" is usually related more to the relative ease of accidental (or intentional) death, than to addiction. Heroin (or morphine which is pharmacologically identical) is highly addictive, but not particularly dangerous unless you take too much (and quite breathing). Caffeine is pretty addictive too, but the withdrawal syndrome is pretty mild.

[inside the sun]

that makes sense. but how can they make it illegal. can't they just put up warning signs that things are poisonous or toxic, etc.. i mean there are harmful poisonous plants and what not growing on this earth that grow freely and aren't considered illegal, reason being that they aren't pyschadelic. Isn't the definition of pyschadelic: mind expanding, or something along those lines. Can we have a government where there are a lot of free thinkers? i think that is the fear. Even marijuana opens the mind a little, *smoking a joint "sure i can get up at dawn, go to a job i hate, that expresses doesn't express my creativity, or i can wake up at noon and play the sitar." (that was a joke, but you get the point). Theere are lots of things that we do, just automatic because we are told to, but when drugs come into play we question more. I think what is being outlawed is not the drug itself, but our own Morals, decisions, and then ultimatley our ability to question.

[Biochemist]

that makes sense. but how can they make it illegal....

You are writing as if legislation is rational. The "they" you are talking about is a heterogeneous set of folks that legislate for different reasons over dozens of years. The resultant set of laws is inherently haphazard.

[Queso]

"oh marijuana, the government wants to test me when i pee

 

oh marijuana, a gift from god to my brothers and me

 

OH marijuana, YOU CANT LEGISLATE YOUR OWN MORALITY"

 

phish - marijuana

[Biochemist]

...YOU CANT LEGISLATE YOUR OWN MORALITY"...

Sure they can. That is why they make murder illegal too.