Moments and events

[Turtle]

Clearly now is the time for me to jump in with a witty rejoinder.:hihi: I now declare today, InfiniteNow Day!

Now iss za time zat vee dance.:lol:

:) :circle: :circle:

As syncronicity would have it (now), I very much had Now in mind when I added Now to my current signature. "In my End is my Beginning; Everything else is Now.

Congratulations on having now reached 3000 posts Now.:xparty: :friday:

Cheers,

Turtle Now

[ldsoftwaresteve]

very beautifully done.

 

Steve

[arkain101]

Quote:

Arkain, are you saying it does not really exist, or that it always has existed, or always has the potential.

 

 

Take this for example;

 

If you were alive 1000 years ago on earth, this is saying that you would of been in interaction with mass and energy that was in a particular posistion.

 

Now lets say there is a alien race 1000 light years away from earth and opens up there telescope today and zooms in on earth. They would be interacting with the same moment (1000 years go) you lived in, at this very moment, now (while you read this).

 

In the typical model we consider the past to pass on behind us. However, in the view I have been learning to observe, everything that was the past, has either; changed a form, or continued on changing posistion. These moments of the 'past' are and do exist still right now in this very moment in a new form or posistion.

 

Breaking down all events to a few basics, I suppose we get interactables, and products (for lack of better terms at the moment). The interactables are energy and mass. One of the products of these can be information. Information is the platform for time. Though information is not interactable, or tangible.

 

One important question I have related to this is; Can a photon carry more two dimensions of momentum. As in; If a photon is fired off from a moving object at 90 degrees to the moving objects motion, will the photon contain and continue the forward traveling motion of the object it was fired from, plus the forward direction it is traveling in respect to its individual path. As such to create a diaganol path, from its origin point and destination point?

 

There appears to me to be only 1 version of a now. There are many sectors of time that we can observe and measure but in the whole of the operation they remain in creation of the now.

 

This Now is a point of 0. It is neither ahead, nor behind. It is absolutly zero. This is where I see that in order for something to keep happening in this point it needs to be in constant creation. If there were more than 1 version of NOW, what dictates the posistion one obtains in all these nows? If there is a past and future there could be so many nows a number may not be capable to show them.

 

At what point does fundamental particles unite and operate to invent a color? The color we experience in our mind, it is produced from cells, and atoms, and particles. But at what point can one say these things are capable to invent color since color is unimportant to the existence of any one of these individual fundamentals??

 

I hope this gets a bit of an idea.

 

In a relativistic sense. Time dialation can be redesribed as energy level.

 

If a ship was to travel away from you at .99c the energy coming from the ship would drop from visual light to a very low energy state, when we are refering to the observable redshift. The energy state eminating from the ship will reduce from the rearword direction. Wavelength will expand dramatically. The energy states change. The posistion of the ship should (correct me if im wrong) be nearly equal to the distance the light traveled to reach you, further ahead than it appears. This may cause a temporary illusion of bending a version of time because the posisiton is only detectable by the energy that reaches you but the source is very far away and unrelated to the posistion you/or a device will detect, at these dramatically high speeds.

 

To further this idea,

One way I view it is that We (a observation frame) / particle can not exist in anywhere besides the place of which the energy creates a change within the atom. Anywhere that energy does not interact with you can not be measured, detected, seen, and generally existed. Thus all things throughout space are experience completely different areas of 'time' according to their observation, but in a grand scheme they still all continue in the same point of now.

 

 

----------

 

This Now is a point of 0. It is neither ahead, nor behind. It is absolutly zero.

 

To imagine infinity, I tend to do it by imagining nothing. In the same sense they are values of nothing, so, very much the same thing.

 

The now that we reside in, as I said has no posistion. It is a value of zero. Somehow it is connected to infinity and nothingness.

 

If we dare to exclude the passing of time and further yet the entire concept itself. It opens the ability for one to see how we may reside within infinity, no posistion in time, only in a zeroness. In other words, that feeling and concept of the now moment (the one that makes your head spin infinitenow) is being in infinity, which is why I think it can be so boggling to the mind, because I really dont think our brains evolved to comprehend this idea, and infact I dont think we have that part of the brain in our skulls and our brain is firing signals to a part of the brain that is not there (lol) causing us to feel disconnected, and completely lost.

 

It gets deep.. but I have a strong feeling this is true.

 

There is 2 ways to help prove this idea, two ways to test it that I have concieved so far. I wont list the details at the moment, but at least if it shows to be incorrect I can let it go. This concept is bound to me in an odd kind of way. As my perception of reality changed over my life these concepts were exposed as the veil lifted from my new perception.

[arkain101]

I've come to think of something interesting.

 

I do believe it should be called the Ultimate Law Of Science. The first and foremost principle.

 

This will be difficult to express.

 

This principle is;

 

All observations in all forms of science from any chosen reference frame must uphold the fact that every passing event that can be measured and observed is an expression and impression applied to a single or series of singular zero points and no further beyond this zero point can any observation or measurment be taken.

 

 

It is to see that no matter how far things are away, or what surrounds you in all your choosings of surroundings (stars, planets, galaxies, trees, anything), The only thing relative to you (a person or observation frame of anykind) is the place of which your atoms are acted upon. This place is like a zero point, both for atoms and the mind. It is almost to say all things expand from within the point of observation and this is the only place there truly is.

 

One last example. If you see a star trillions of trillions miles away, you are actually seeing no further than the tip of your nose, the energy that is interacting with your atoms in your point in your now.

 

This is the ultimate law because In any observation of any kind, in any measurement, IN ALL Experiments and sciences it must be the first the applied to the logic of observation of the event.

[Turtle]

So what happens

NOW

, Turtle?

 

That is an interesting story as yet unwritten. :shrug:

[InfiniteNow]

Julian Barbour (born 1937) is a British physicist. He is the author of The End of Time, Absolute or Relative Motion? and The Discovery of Dynamics.

He holds the controversial view that time does not exist, and that most of physics' problems arise from assuming that it does exist. He argues that we have no evidence of the past other than our memory of it, and no evidence of the future other than our belief in it.

Excuse me Infinite for playing the lay-card here, and I do understand the above is NOT your opinion! What gets me is that such a revered and credentialed member of the physics fraternity [Julian Barbour] argues that we have no evidence of the past, other than our memory of it!??

Revered and credentialed? That's one person's perspective maybe. He's a guy with a degree sharing his ideas...

 

I first heard of his work reading an article in Discover Magazine, and then decided to buy his book "End of Time" to learn more about his approach.

 

You can read that same article I reference above at the following if you would care to reduce the number of lay-cards sitting in your proverbial deck:

 

http://www.discover.com/issues/dec-00/cover/

 

 

Also, if I may make a request, please do not adjust other people's quotes using bananaman or other similar formatting options. If the poster wanted to use those, they would have before submitting their post. B)

 

I must be on another planet – then what are the photos in my family album? What are the pyramids? Etc.etc . What am I missing?? Please, anybody …

This is where it all began for me, and you know what? It's still right now.

Are you quite sure about that Infinite? My perception is that it began back THEN! Now, where does that lead …?

And in what time is this concept to which you refer "THEN" encapsulated? When are you when perceiving those photos and the pyramids and absolutely anything else? It is right now. The concept of then, there, here, whatever has no basis except in the present moment. I'm as sure as anyone can be, but as evidenced in my posts here, am seeking a clearer and more complete understanding of that certainty.

[Little Bang]

Infi, I you think about it there is no such thing as now. Any event that we observe is always in the past, no matter how close or how far away. The observed event may only be a pico second in the past, but it is in the past.

[Turtle]

Infi, I you think about it there is no such thing as now. Any event that we observe is always in the past, no matter how close or how far away. The observed event may only be a pico second in the past, but it is in the past.

 

While arguably the event is in the past, it is equally arguable that the observation always takes place in the Now. (That's what I think about it for now anyway.:wink: ) Tea? :cocktail:

[InfiniteNow]

Infi, I you think about it there is no such thing as now. Any event that we observe is always in the past, no matter how close or how far away. The observed event may only be a pico second in the past, but it is in the past.

You're right. And so is Turtle! :cocktail:

 

 

I actually brought this up in post #14 of this thread.

http://hypography.com/forums/astronomy-cosmology/4843-moments-events-2.html

[Little Bang]

Sorry infi, I missed your post #14

[InfiniteNow]

I am certain you are right LB, there can be no such thing as NOW without including the PAST.

I also concur with this point. I'm trying to articulate that all everything's are included in now, hence, so are all pasts and all futures.

 

So I suppose one can go as far to say that NOW and THEN are the same ‘animal’, separated by an order of degrees. NOW and THEN must overlap somewhere, depending upon the observer and, just maybe, whom he is keeping company with.

I will quickly state that I have difficulty finding support for this position, but I sense that the overlap itself is infinite.

 

I’ll have mine on the rocks thanks Infinow….

I take mine neat, friend. :xx: Cheers. :hihi:

[Little Bang]

Good response rf.

[InfiniteNow]

...yet we place ourselves on an intelligence pedestal that by default accepts we possess a level of understanding that allows us to comprehend these mysteries, when the real truth is perhaps that we are to the Universe no more than what ‘dumb animals’ are to us...

To clarify, we are part the set :Universe: and there is a certain logical fallacy in describing us as separate from it. We are part of the aggregate which composes the everything...

 

BTW, a "dumb animal" to me is another lifeform with whom life/existence is shared, following it's own set of circumstances, and adding to the overall sum of that which is the universe. Oh, actually, that's not true at all. I wouldn't call animals dumb. Some are ignorant, but that's a bit different (and, also off topic. :) )

 

...and [we humans] are simply incapable of grasping or understanding these eternal cornerstones of the environment in which we exist, even with the evidence right before us.

Well, maybe with that lack of self-efficacy we're incapable, but I reject vehemently the prospect of something being impossible... While some things are more probable than others, nothing is impossible.

[HydrogenBond]

If one wants to define "now", one only has to consider the time reference that animals live it. They respond to real time sensory input in nearly real time. Humans can let the moment of now linger in time, via the imagination. This allows humans more time to assess the now from many angles. All this assesement takes time, often causing the now to be lost. Two activities that typically keep one in the now is sex and war, unless one is lost in their imagination, than time can appear to speedup or even slowdown.

 

What is also interesting about humans is that assessing the now in the imagination can also lead us back in time. Much of the real time sensory data this is being collectived from the romote parts of the universe, affect the scientists in the now, but bring them back to the beginning of time within their imaginations.

 

With respect to humans, there are the extroverts and the introverts. The extroverts tend to stay closer to the now. While the introverts more often pertubate the now both forward and backwards.

[InfiniteNow]

I do like how you shoot from the hip, HydrogenBond. You are admittedly sometimes difficult to follow with your ideas, for the steps you take to arrive at them are not often elucidated, but they are at least your ideas.

 

An issue with your comments above is the use of both undefined terms and also biases of your own perception. Specifically, I refer to your use of the word time, which has consistently evaded clear and accurate definition for most who have tried. Trying to define another concept using one that itself is not fully understood really puts that definition into question.

 

You speak of activities which "typically keep one in the now," and I understand that our awareness of the now moment may be enhanced by such activities, but my bigger point is that, despite our awareness of it, we are ALWAYS in the now moment, like some inescapable and emphemeral shadow which stays with us always. Along these lines, imagination impacts our awareness of now, but even imagination itself is restricted to the now moment.

 

Your last comment regarding introverts and extroverts eludes me, as my definition of those terms does not seem to have much overlap with your own (hence my comment above about biases of perception). I see the issue as much less dependent upon one's personality traits, and more directly linked to the concept of existence itself.

 

A rock (or, insert any other inanimant object) is neither introvert nor extrovert, but it is always now. So... what is now? :)

 

 

Cheers. :)

[Little Bang]

When I look at an object 10 billion light years away I see it as it was 10 billion years ago. When I look at an object that is 10^ -50 light years away I see it as it was 10^ -50 years ago. Therefore I can never ever get to now. No matter how quickly I look it will always be in the past.

[InfiniteNow]

When I look at an object 10 billion light years away I see it as it was 10 billion years ago. When I look at an object that is 10^ -50 light years away I see it as it was 10^ -50 years ago. Therefore I can never ever get to now. No matter how quickly I look it will always be in the past.

Although the light source may have been emitted all those "years ago," and taken all that "time" to travel the great expanse across space to you, when do you perceive it?

 

Clearly, all perceptual stimuli take "time" to travel from the point of perceptual stimulation through the nervous system and arrive at interpretation, but that interpretation happens when?