Life Destroying Life To Exist

[Galapagos]

Natural selection has designed us to be killing machines. Most animals live a life of suffering and struggling; most animals who have ever lived have died childless; 99% of all species have gone extinct etc.. Much of the perceived beauty in nature is the result of an ever-escalating arms race between competing organisms. There are many aspects of our own nature-- behavior, coded by our genes-- that were beneficial to our ancestors, but often gets in the way for modern humans trying to live civilly. We love eating fats and sugars, males have a strong propensity for rape, status matters much to our mental health and causes us to behave irrationally or violently. Even our passions of guilt, fairness, or justice often mislead us when navigating the moral landscape modern society... the difference between us and much of the rest of the animal world is that we often overcome these urges with our big brains, lust for altruism, and ability to reason.

 

This quote from the end of the first edition of "The Selfish Gene" gets me every time:

We have the power to defy the selfish genes of our birth and, if necessary, the selfish memes of our indoctrination. We can even discuss ways of deliberately cultivating and nurturing pure, disinterested altruism-- something that has no place in nature, something that has never existed before in the whole history of the world. We are built as gene machines and cultured as meme machines but we have the power to turn against our creators. We, alone on earth, can rebel against the tyranny of the selfish replicators.

 

also @freeztar:

thread reminded me of "Disgustipated" by Tool:

YouTube - This is (life feeds on life) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luSJiBjqz_s

[goku]

hannibal: i love the french, they taste like chicken

 

if somethin's gonna live then somethin's gonna die

and the sun powers it all

 

and there it is again, we are animals yet we're not supposed to act like animals.

 

you'd think that people got some weird belief about a powerfull being that sent down laws of right and wrong for man to adhear to. :(

[Ganoderma]

The bacteria that live in these vents get their energy from chemo-synthesis instead of photosynthesis.

 

is this not life without causing death? can you kill a chemical? is a chemical life? is life a bunch of chemicals?

 

every time i start thinking about this area my head spins and i go to sleep early.

[Zythryn]

is this not life without causing death? can you kill a chemical? is a chemical life? is life a bunch of chemicals?

 

At it's most basic, yes. The most basic type of life tends to absorb energy from its enviornment without directly taking other life. However even seemingly peaceful life competes for resources.

The plants that make larger leaves can absorb more of the suns energy. However the same plants will prevent or kill smaller plants nearby that end up in the shade.

[Michaelangelica]

How about bacteria that eat rocks?

[Zythryn]

I don't know of the specifics, but I would guess that some of such bacteria doesn't get as many nutrients as it needs due to not being able to get to right minerals it needs.

Either because of other bacteria in the way or bad luck:)

Not positive though, it could be there is another subset of life that has no restrictions to its growth. However, if that were the case I would expect that life form to get out of control.

[Moontanman]

There are several ecologies on the Earth that are not based on the death of something else but even in those ecologies the individual species compete with each other. On top of that if indeed you had an ecology that consisted of only one species the individuals would be in competition with each other. So in some way I would say all ecologies are competitive in some manner that would result in the death of individuals.

[Michaelangelica]

There are several ecologies on the Earth that are not based on the death of something else but even in those ecologies the individual species compete with each other. On top of that if indeed you had an ecology that consisted of only one species the individuals would be in competition with each other. So in some way I would say all ecologies are competitive in some manner that would result in the death of individuals.

What about the ecology of my bedroom.

Where several bugs just eat what I discard eg Dust mites eating skin.

 

Many bugs eat what we, or others, discard. It does not result in our death.

Soil bacteria have learnt to eat faeces and manure.

Stomach bacteria help us extract food from what we eat, but they are not responsible for any death.

Many bacteria are symbiotic to plants and animals.

 

Some bacteria are found 3 miles into the earth's crust. Not a lot to eat there except inanimate rock.

 

Still I guess in most cases the process of life and death is what bankrolls the planet's ecology. But there are important exceptions.

If there hadn't been exceptions, 3+ billion years ago, life may not have got started in the first place.

[freeztar]

What about the ecology of my bedroom.:shrug:

Where several bugs just eat what I discard eg Dust mites eating skin.

 

I think what moon was getting at is that even if you only have dust mites living in your bedroom, they are still competing amongst each other for those juicy Michaelangelica-flakes. Any time you have competition, you have winners and losers. Those that lose (outcompeted) die as a direct result of competition within a resource limited environment.

[Ganoderma]

Michael, is the skin that falls off dead or alive? even dust mites directly eat dead stuff. as most things do, including plants.

 

but as for the thread title, do these really fit? they didn't destroy life to live, they are just living off of already destroyed life. seems peaceful enough. everything dies, be a shame to waste it

[Icarus]

Wow.

 

To start with. What is life? Its a hard thing to define. And then we wish to talk about peace and harmony. These are subjective and loaded terms.

 

Can you say a tropical forest with plants trying to get taller to get sunlight and blocking it for shorter species is not harmonious?

 

A world without carnivores is possible. What about the mites that eat your skin flakes? That seems symbiotic. How about the bacteria that make you sick? Not harmonious enough?

 

What is harmony? Is it to do with stability? Or does it have to do with just plain old not hurting or killing? And even that had to do with pain.

 

A counter question. Please define life. And when is an action not harmonious?