Christians to vote on removing kids from school

[IrishEyes]

Tormod, thank you very much for the history lesson on the names of the days of the week. Yes, I was aware of a few of them, but not all. I know the month names are similarly named after many 'gods'. My question really was just a question, not an attempt to criticize. Here in the US, many people that do not claim a religious affiliation refer to Christmas as their favorite holiday. I know, what's in a name, right? A rose by any other... whatever. Anyhow, I just found it interesting, but was not aware that you were being so gracious as to make the translation for us. Thanks for that. I'm sure we'd all be truly amazed to find out how far off many of our perceptions of the rest of the world are. For instance, calling it 'jul' makes absolute perfect sense to me. I think it would be better to find a different name for the winter holiday as well, as - like you so eloquently pointed out- it is nothing more than a Hallmark/marketing extravaganza now anyway. Personally, I feel that associating the media and ad campaign of that time of year with Jesus is really cheapening what was intended as a time of remembrance and celebration.

[IrishEyes]

By FreeT:

They also called for wives to "graciously" submit to their husbands' leadership. Yes spousal abuse is high in SBC areas.

 

Ok, I'm raising the Caution flag on this one... That's a little bit oversimplified.

 

As we have discussed before, spousal abuse does not have a religious affiliation. There are Christian and atheist spouse abusers. We are two survivors of each. There is a monumental difference between a wife submitting to the Biblical authority given to her husband to lead the house, and a husband abusing that authority and physically harming his wife or children. One does not guarantee the other.

 

I 'graciously submit' to my husband, most of the time. Sometimes I do not do it graciously, but still I submit to his authority. I struggled with that teaching for quite a while, for the same reason that you imply here. However, 'submitting to his authority' does not mean that I meekly stand by while he makes every decision in my life, and does whatever he feels like doing to me. It means taking my place as his partner, his helpmeet, but agreeing that he has the final authority on all decisions that are to be made for our family. It doesn't mean that I have to ask his permission for every thing I do, or that he has to personally make every single decision. We discuss everything, and he values my opinion. If the decision affects mainly me, or our children, or the running of our home on a day to day basis (ie grocery shopping), he leaves many of those decisions to me. However, when it comes to how to discipline, or when to discipline, or what church to attend, or how our money is saved or spent, it means that we discuss things, and he takes my opinion into consideration, but he has the final decision. As good as it sounds to have a totally equal partnership, it rarely works. There must be discussion and compromise, but there also needs to be one final voice that speaks for the best interest of the family as a whole. There are times when I am not 'gracious' about this, and I sometimes disagree with his decisions. During a time like that, he will listen to my argument and explain why he does not agree. Sometimes I will get him to reconsider, sometimes not.

 

At no time has he ever considered my submission a license to physically abuse me.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: CD27

first off, preachers do have a job, tehy get payed real green money to preach, imagine that.

Preachers are LEACHES. They suck money out of the economy and offer NOTHING of value in return. They have an extensive record of scamming the flock, taking sexual advantage of the congregation, even it's youngest members, at their most vunerable points.

 

And in the US they get to tax shelter their income and the life style they live.

 

When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one. -- Benjamin Franklin

 

During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution. -- James Madison

 

Ministers say that they teach charity. That is natural. They live on hand-outs. All beggars teach that others should give. -- Robert Ingersoll

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: CD27

i could hardly say that teaching about the atomic structure THEORY is anywhere near factual. atoms are yet to be proven at all, they have only theorized on them, and to teach it as if it is real is unconstitutional.

Let's see, you continually tell us that you intentionally listen to people that lie to you and blindly accept it. You prove you are in no position to determine what is or what is not TRUTH.

 

And to say that atomic theory is not supportable by factual science is nothing short of idiotic. The only thing that could be more absurd is to say it is "unconstitutional"

 

NOTHING that christians have done in school has been wrong. we have not "forced" anyone to say "under god" in the pledge, it is their choice, as a matter a fact, they don't even ahve to say the pledge if they don't belive ni god.

Which shows further ignorance. And especially from someone that complains about students being "forced" to listen to SCIENCE. If you are so uneducated as to think peer pressure does not FORCE kids to do things in a school, there is little that will help you grasp reality. I can give you any number of examples of how my kids were PHYSICALL ABUSED by peers just for not speaking the "under god" parts and other similar events. Just because someone noticed they did not audibly say "under god".

i still don't see how that is unconstitutional.

Try reading the 1st Ammendment. a tax supported public school can not promote a religion. GOD is a religious word/ concept. Now what do you not understand?

 

Unfortunately the Supreme Court just wimped out of the issue. My guess would be because they coud not find a way to justify keeping "Under GOd" in. Instead they decided that Newdow did not ahve standing, did not have authority to act on his daughter's interests. Bypassing any decision on the Constitutionality of it.

 

plus, the mjority of the south are christians anyways

Ah yes, MOB RULE! Those loving Slave Owning Souther Christians. The HIGHEST DIVORCE RATE in the country. The worst education systems in the country. The poorest people.

 

You should be real proud!

, a very few people in the south are not christians. i know only a few, and my school is one of the largest in the state. well, i can't say they are all true christians,. but they all claim to be.

And again we find Eric has been personally chosen by god to decide who is a Christian.

[Freethinker]

point is, alot ofthe theories that are taught in highschool and evn middleschool are jsut that, theories.

This is always a ploy used by uneducated Creationists.

 

"In science, a theory is not a guess or an approximation but an extensive explanation developed from well-documented, reproducible sets of experimentally-derived data from repeated observations of natural processes." National Association of Biology Teachers

 

"In physics, a theory is not a guess or a hypothesis. It is a mathematical model that lets us make predictions about how the world behaves." NASA - Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, a member of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics

 

"If repeated experiments support a hypothesis, it may be recognized as a Theory. A Scientific Theory is not a guess or a supposition, it is a widely accepted hypothesis supported by a great deal of data." Framingham State College- Biology Dept.

 

"A theory is built upon one or more hypotheses, and upon evidence. The word "built" is essential, for a theory contains reasoning and logical connections based on the hypotheses and evidence. Thus we have Newton's theory of gravity and the motion of planets, Einstein's theory of relativity, the germ theory of disease, the cell theory of organisms, plate tectonics (theory of the motion of land masses), the valence theory of chemical compounds, and theories of evolution in biology, geology, and astronomy. These theories are self-consistent and consistent with one another." College of Arts and Science, Creighton University

and they teahc them as fact. if they are gonna teach liket hat, then why is creationism taken out of schools?

Creationism is NEITHER FACT nor Theory. It is NOT IN ANY WAY SCIENCE.

to what the athiests state, creationism is just a thoery as well...

I am an Atheist, I NEVER say this. Show us PROOF or stop lying.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: IrishEyes

Just wondering, not trying to criticize. But it always makes me wonder to hear non-believers talk about Christmas and Easter, totally blissfully ignoring what they represent. And before anyone starts with the whole "Christmas began as a pagan holiday, etc." I want to remind you that it's not called "PaganDay" it's called CHRISTMAS. Regardless of the arguments for the origin of the day, it is currently associated with Jesus, not any pagan ritual or celebration.

I agree that the NAME "Christmas" is not in anyway pagan, EVERYTHING ELSE about it is!

 

and then there is Easter. There is NOTHING about it that IS NOT Pagan. Even the name.

 

But then there is not anything about Christianity that is not pagan in some way. NOTHING. The entire Jesus myth is built on earlier pagan concepts.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: IrishEyes

Here in the US, many people that do not claim a religious affiliation refer to Christmas as their favorite holiday.

Yes, it shows how little regard US Citizens actually have for Christianity no matter what they may claim otherwise. "Money is the root of all evil" Yet they have their god printed on it. That shows respect?

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: IrishEyes

By FreeT:

 

They also called for wives to "graciously" submit to their husbands' leadership. Yes spousal abuse is high in SBC areas.

 

Ok, I'm raising the Caution flag on this one... That's a little bit oversimplified.

STATISTICAL FACT. Raise all the flags you like. In a part of the country with the highest level of claimed fundamental Christian population, they have the highest divorce rate and highest spousal abuse rate.

 

Christianity, in their very source of rules and regulations, the bible, is loaded with admonitions of females being inferior to and the property of the male.

 

No surpise then when Christians follow what their bible tells them and subjegate the female. They are following their god's orders.

I 'graciously submit' to my husband, most of the time.

Anecdotal, So what?

 

STATISTICS aree based on a much larger base and not disproven by singular anecdotal evidence.

[Tormod]

Originally posted by: IrishEyes

Tormod, thank you very much for the history lesson on the names of the days of the week. Yes, I was aware of a few of them, but not all.

 

Gods, emperors, and numbers, in fact...Augustus is named after Augustus Caesar, whereas September simply means "seven".

 

http://www.crowl.org/Lawrence/time/months.html

 

Personally, I feel that associating the media and ad campaign of that time of year with Jesus is really cheapening what was intended as a time of remembrance and celebration.

 

I agree completely. I feel that the entire concept of Christmas and just about any holiday of any spiritual value is ripped apart by market forces - Halloween and Thanksgiving (which we don't celebrate over here, although the shops have imported Halloween recently) are examples.

 

I mean, visit London in late September and the Christmas decorations are already up in Regent street!

 

Tormod

[sanctus]

I know this is now a bit off topic, but.....

 

Tormod,

maybe it is because I'm younger than you but I don't see the problem if you have to do do civil disobedience, if you do it well (that means for example that you get media coverage), then you can change things. The bigger problem is that your daughter finds herself not doing something everything else does and will maybe prefer to attend chrisanity lessons and not being doing something alone.

[sanctus]

to the surprised people from the US,

 

 

I come from switzerland (the country that loves to say how neutral it is) and there are some cantons (an equivalent of a state just in much, much smaller scale) where in the first 5/6 grades there is compulsory religion classes (usually with choice between protestant and catholic); I think I heard also something about a project to introduce muslim religion courses, but I'm not sure. But in the upper grades it isn't anymore compulsory and starting from the age of 16 there is a free choice of confession (parents can't say anymore anything).

[Uncle Martin]

I know what civil disobedience means in the U S, but what does it entail in Europe and specifically Norway? Excuse my ignorance, but it occurs to me there may be a big difference that i'm unaware of.

[sanctus]

welcome back Irisheyes.

 

 

Sorry, but I completly disagree with you, there isn't needed at all someone in a a relationship who has the last word. I thinkk a realtionship is more to search for a compromise and in the case you don't find one you break up. Because in your relationship you did from the start the compromise that he has the last word, if not probably the relationship wouldn't even have started.

Hope I was clear,...

[sanctus]

CD27,

 

 

go have a look into nanophyisics, then you will actually see the atoms!! You can still argue that their existence is not proven, just in the same way as the existence of an apple. It gets then back to the disussion what reality is.