2D vs 3D Space...

[Boerseun]

Right...

 

Time for me to stop critisizing and post my very own Strange Claim.

 

Consider this:

 

I don't think that Time in itself is a fourth dimension. I think that Time is simply an artifact of the third dimension interacting with the first two.

 

I propose (for the sake of this discussion, hey - it might even be true!) the following:

 

The first two dimensions exist outside of what we experience as time. The third dimension is 'zipping' up with the first two, and 'unzipping' again at what we experience as 300,000km/s. The little bit where it is zipped up, can be described as the 'present'. No 3D space exist before or after the dimensions are 'zipped' up.

 

What we think of as light, is 2-dimensional energy being propagated through 3D space. We can't see light - all we can see is 2D energy interacting with the 3D universe when a photon strikes your eyeball. The strongest possible laser beam can cross your path and you won't see it - what you will see is the laser light interacting with 3D dust particles in the air. In a perfectly clean vacuum, you won't see a thing - until you're smack bang inside it. In which case you'll probably fry.

 

Think about it. We are used to 3D space. We grew up with it. We are trapped inside the 'zipped-up' zone of the three dimensions. We are 3D chauvinists, so to speak. And when we see how light behaves, we want to shoehorn it into 3D space by assigning it either the characteristics of a particle, or a wave. Meanwhile, it's simply energy trapped in 2D space of which we have no experience. It looks like a wave and a particle at the same time - but that might just be how 2D stuff operates.

 

Imagine: When you accelerate towards C, you start shrinking in the direction of travel (you won't notice this, of course). When you're at 99.9999...% C, you're as flat as a pancake. Imagine you can cross the threshold and reach C - you won't be as flat as a pancake - there simply won't be a dimension in that direction to define flatness. That dimension simply won't exist.

 

A photon born at the time of the Big Bang will experience two things: First, the birth of the universe at the time of the Big Bang, and secondly, immediately after that, it will experience the End of the Universe - whatever that might be (provided the photon doesn't interact with 3D matter along the way). Actually, it won't be immediately after that - it will simply be the same event. The Big Bang and the Big Crunch (or whatever flavour of the universe's end you prefer) will happen simultaneously. Reapeatedly. For ever. As far as the photon is concerned, it's existence is a mere flash, regardless of the billions of years it's been cruising through 3D space.

 

When a photon is emitted, the angle and direction of its plane of propagation is dictated by the specific atom (existing in 3D space) which emitted it. It will hold that plane and the angle (in 3D space) throughout its travels. When it reaches a 3D object, it will transfer the energy in the same plane in which it received it billions of years before. A photon can travel left and right (the vibration we pick up as wave motion) and forwards, forwards being exactly away from the transmitting atom. It can travel in no other direction, because in 2D space, there simply is no other direction. Sure - it's path might bend according to gravity sources being present, but that's a curve in the 2D space, not a manifestation of a third dimension.

 

We experience light as travelling at 300,000km/s. A photon experiences speed as being infinite. It starts at the Big Bang and ends at the Big Crunch in exactly the same moment. Therefore, I propose that Time is an artifact of the Third Dimension interacting with the other two, and not a dimension in itself.

 

If you go at 99.9999...% C, and you add just a single cm per hour, crossing the threshold, you are travelling at C and have reached the point where the third dimension cannot keep up with the other two. Immediately after that, you reach the End of the Universe. You have transcended Time - leaving the Third Dimension behind. Who knows - with more energy input, it might even be possible to divorce the first and second dimensions as well...

 

Yeah - I'm rambling.

 

But think about it - this might be a rather simple explanation of the wave/particle duality, not being a duality at all. We might have to rethink the description we normally give to light, and try to understand it as a 2D 'object', and try and understand how 2D objects would operate.

 

Light travels away from a source in a spherical shape - but that has nothing to do with a third dimension. That's just the way the individual atoms on the surface of the source transmitted it. The atoms live in 3D space and can interact with it. Once the photon is emitted, it goes in a straight line.

Coherent light goes in a straight line, but that is once again attributable to the configuration of atoms at the source. Polarised light is just normal scattered light being filtered - and only letting those that do indeed confirm to the configuration of the filter pass through. The photons don't care. The third dimension simply do not exist for light.

 

Any ideas?

[Vending]

Interesting.

 

Right...

 

Light travels away from a source in a spherical shape - but that has nothing to do with a third dimension. That's just the way the individual atoms on the surface of the source transmitted it. The atoms live in 3D space and can interact with it. Once the photon is emitted, it goes in a straight line.

Coherent light goes in a straight line, but that is once again attributable to the configuration of atoms at the source. Polarised light is just normal scattered light being filtered - and only letting those that do indeed confirm to the configuration of the filter pass through. The photons don't care. The third dimension simply do not exist for light.

 

Any ideas?

 

Here is what I would say, for starters.

 

It seems like a photon is well aware of its 3-D surroundings. If you shine light through a slit it will be deflected, this is what gives rise to the defraction patterns we see in the two (or one, even) slit experiment. Thus, light must interact in some way with the 3-d world around it. THis would seem to hint at the idea that light cannot be just 2-d.

 

Of course i could be totally WAY off base here.

[arkain101]

Nice...

This is so similar to explanations I have come across from, let just say unheard of sources, as how the universe operates on different planes, and is relative to my ideas.

 

Then we have space contraction! and I am not sure whether or not an object traveling at C contracts completely or not but if so we have this to consider.

The photon you consider going as flat as a pancake as it is shot out in a strait line then would also become 1 dimensional in the sense of where it came from and ended up is contracted to considerably zero distance. This zero distance with space contraction and plane squishing would logically create the action of pulling itself together as the zero point energy field, a well known concept. Now the virbration / frequency of this energy is instantaniously the comincation between emitter and reciever over zero distance on a 2d plane. As a photon interacts with each atom it experinces a moment of redirection, "Stopping its motion", this stopping of motion gives the atom's 3d world a sense of "time" and "space". So a photon comes at you from a million miles away and hits your eyeball, it changes form, or possibly direction on your eye, this change creates the 3d reality which makes the photo look really long. So as it "slows down" its information Opens up making 3D become the effect.

 

Im thinking about seperating an atom. We pull the nucleus apart and Gamma waves are released as we know(High freqency passing of information/energy)... and I that part gets me alittle confused.

 

Now zero point energy modules are theoretically high speec occilating devices. If we can cause 3D material (atoms) to vibrate in tune with with eachother, together their working mass will increase, and match the zero point energy frequency, and as we know waves re-inforce waves and strengthen eachother. So these theoretical zero point field devices which have been claimed to have been built could simple be getting in tune with the energy..

 

Talk about rambling.. lol, this is confusing and yet remarkable logical in consideration to relativity.

 

So the slowing down of light/photon, would cause the photon to theoretically Open up and give the interpratation of space, distance and time. Now how could one object appear further away than another. According to this wierd idea that light is in a seperate dimension, where it has 100% space contraction and 2D dimention flatness, then matter would be whatever it is, and light would be the effect of information being passed between matter....

 

So if light can be reflected, defracted, and refracted... this means to reduce its velocity for a moment, which allows it to join the 3d world long enought to follow the laws of 3d realm and change direction. Then matter would be light stopped aka slowed down, and would accorrding to SR space expand front and back (making 2d space) and stop being a pancake and act 3D(making 3d space), and matter would be low energy light, according to its energy, and it the matter would turn to energy by soaking up energy to do so to energize the lower level photon-matter to turn into space contracted 2d light wave-particles again.

In a sense if this were ever possibly True All things would Be One with infinite distance and infinite smallness at the same time and your relative reference point would determine where along the finite scale you are at..

The thing we call mass could be yet another disturbance in this flat 1d-2d fundemental, which is caused by flexing zero point fields around, illusionarily. So for example; every action has an equal and opposite reaction because you are pushing your disturbance illusion against the same fundemental of the reacter disturbance illusion and that makes the assumption of mass..

 

I need to put much more time into this thought to make any general sense out of it.. if it even does make sense.

[arkain101]

I just read something here that is better explaining what I was logistically playing out above.

 

TheFaithfulStone (Online)

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Re: Heim Theory - Today, 05:57 PM

 

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I just finished reading the paper in the "Three Hours To Mars" thread. I'm a little less confused now - although I still can't really follow the math.

 

It seems like Heim's big "conceptual leap" was to say that it's not just gravity that is primarily a distortion of space time, it's EVERYTHING. The fundamental "property" of the universe is the "metron" which is a 1-dimension "string" (sound familiar) In an eight dimensional space. Matter and forces both arise when the normal, flat, Euclidean arrangment of the "heim space" is disturbed. The fundamental properties of metrons are not "set" but rather change over time, explaining (among other things) the creation of matter, why the universe seems to be expanding ever faster, and gamma ray bursters.

 

Now the big question is "Well what causes matter then?" since the the disturbance of the metronic lattice seems to be a self-reinforcing process (forces cause metrons to organize into matter, which cause forces, which cause metrons....)

 

Anyway, my non-expert take on it.

 

TFS

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[arkain101]

Dimensions would be described as a result and way of describing how the fundemental space fabric is acting under cirtain circumstances. So I mean that dimensions seem to have been named by us but are a result of variations in the fundemental.

[arkain101]

According to relativity space, time, and mass are manipulatable directly by the velocity/energy it contains in the fabric of space.

 

So if light is proveable as disturbance in the frabric in a 2 dimensional form as a wave-particle. If it were capable of contracting space fabric it could result in causing the effect of gravity.

For example on earth. Our planet is firing out countless photons and electromagnetic radiation in a sphereical form. In doing this each stream of quantum photon will contract space fabric around it. ALot of how Eienstien said mass bends space-time and gravity is a result of this. However from outside sources I heard the idea of light being the cause of gravity. So here we have trilloins and trilloins of electromagnetic energy fleeting off from earth in a sphereical formation in 2d paths. The space-time fabric is and any object in the area is contracted and it contracts relentlessly making gravity become itself. Now this would related to how gravity works aswell because gravity acts on the entire body of mass equally, meaning that you feel no force as it moves you. So this contraction of space-time from sphereical emmition of photo radiation contracting space time in every direction will cause a collapsing of the fabric around it, pulling each and every single particle equally inwards, like being carried downstream, you feel no push or pull but your kinetic energy is increasing as you get closer. Now if you imagine what happens to the concentration of electromagnetic energy as it radiates sphereically out from the earth it spreads out and the concentration is applied over a greater volume weakening the action of the inward pull of space-time. Just like gravity works as you further get away.

 

So we have earth and the Sun.. both sucking in the fabric of space time, exactly why light (EM radiation/ photons) are seen to bend from gravity. And because they each emmit such a large quantiy of EMR they both stream space-time from eachother, because the EMR is literally contracting the space-time between them since it travels at the universal constant C. Somewhere between earth in the sun will be a equal point (i know this has some kind of term) where the contraction will meet and nulify. which in theory could cause a bit of a turbulance where spacetime flows from up down, left right from this centeral zone. So if an object were near this flat plan of space-time suction (bending/flowin) it would should want to find itself end up flowing to the perpendicar point between earth and the sun, the point of head on EMR flow form earth and sun. If we were to be able to balance that object in this spot, we could test for turbulance of space-time contraction.

 

Now according to relativiy.. the photons would have a typical view of what it would be like to ride on a light wave. Things would rappidly occur around it, time wise, and the space would warp around it and contract front to back. While on earth we would see see the photon act as it would in our time frame, as being slow in time.

-could this balance out, it slowing down and time and us speeding up in time create the constant at which speed of light travels?-

 

So if we look at black holes,

Its "gravity" is not only bending space-time it is creating a singularity of space bending and suction because there is so much space contraction form such a high concentration of Electro magnetic expellation that the 2D waves of EMR become one singularity.. and possibly the fact that Gamma radiation is present behind the event horrizon the space contraction would be even more intense. So its contracting space time so intensely because its gravity is so concentrated.

(and as I mentioned before gravity is directly related to how concentrated mass to space is in a given volume. Now if you think about this, the greater the desity of matter the denser its EMR emittion will be and the greater it will suck space-time around it. So as a star collapses its material becomes as dense as we can imagine, and the space-time bending matches the same densitiy of the EMR emittion, and bang we have singularity.

 

Now as I have read black holes have the ability to do work by shooting material outwards, either from its poles? or if matter is able to bounce off its edge. So if the singularity of inwards space-time contraction exists, there must be an equal and opposite reaction of a singularity emission. I dont mean to go much further into this because of hwo little I know about black holes but if they all do shoot material out of their poles.. this be where the space time is singularity being shot out.. when we see those imagines of black holes having a spray of material out of the poles.